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Topic: King of the Mountain :

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eugenewrayburn

1. Posted:

Is the name of my favorite 'Bonanza' episode.

But it also has present day videogame meaning.....Nintendo is King of the Mountain once again - how and when will they 'lose' it, assuming they do?

Nintendo has ALWAYS had exception, exclusive, and groundbreaking software on their systems....but of course Sony became King on the strength of overhyped, game damaging FMV (that we still feel the negative effects of, across the board), the 'literalism' game design movement, and probably most importantly, cheaper game media, disc vs the expensive but expansive N64 carts....But that was then - this is now : PS3 is a sluggish trojan horse, PSP is underdeveloped and in a software eclipse from DS, and PS2 is an old, old, noble work horse....

So what movement will supplant the Neo Nintendo Arcade Age .....????

Edited on by eugenewrayburn

Hardcore, casual = marketing. The real divide is between arcade and narrative games.

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Adam

2. Posted:

Could you explain the PS3 / Trojan Horse metaphor? Perhaps the Trojan Rabbit from Monty Python would be a more accurate metaphor. And then Jack Tretton, Kazuo Hirai, and I leap out of the rabbit, taking Nintendo by surprise! :D

The PSP, and to a less extent the PS3, are doing well in Japan, especially lately. If Nintendo doesn't have something up its sleeves at E3, I could see them losing customers in the near future. It's been too long since there was a must-have first-party game. Time shall tell.

Come on, friends,
To the bear arcades again.

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gameking23

3. Posted:

eugenewrayburn wrote:

Is the name of my favorite 'Bonanza' episode.

Cool someone watches Bonanza besides just me. :D

I rule when it comes to games. So deal with it.

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Rm88

4. Posted:

I never thought I'd say this, but I'd like to see Nintendo (and its Shovelware Happy Era) in trouble, so they start treating their home videogame console as a home videogame console. Sadly, Nintendo has made so much money selling Wii to people that will never play any other game than WiiSports, that they wouldn't even care.

Edited on by Rm88

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eugenewrayburn

5. Posted:

Adam - lol, my favorite Bonanza charachter......you should get a pic of Pernell Roberts for your avatar, that would be beyond classic....

Yeah, but look at the current rates for Japan, and project when PSP/PS3 will 'pass' Wii/DS. Take a looooong time, ain't gonna happen. Nintendo is cool there now, but they had a white hot period, especially the DS, and their is quite an overall gap.....

As for my metaphor, well PS3 is tech wise a very ambitious console, but they have lost their 3rd party exclusives, save for Metal Gear. Because it was very expensive at launch and has never really taken off..... If I had 500 Wii Points for every Sony press release that bragged about its bluray movie ability, I would be a happy camper indeed.... I think they lost site of their meat and potaotes....

Hardcore, casual = marketing. The real divide is between arcade and narrative games.

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eugenewrayburn

6. Posted:

__rm88 wrote:

I never thought I'd say this, but I'd like to see Nintendo (and its Shovelware Happy Era) in trouble, so they start treating their home videogame console as a home videogame console. Sadly, Nintendo has made so much money selling Wii to people that will never play any other game than WiiSports, that they wouldn't even care.

Sorry, but I call BS - Name the shovelware Nintendo has produced, please. That is a grave insult. And the Wii has an attach rate of near 7, a game behind 360 (which has been out a year more) and nearly identical to PS3.....and considering at the record rates it is selling, that is quite impressive.

Nintendo sells much more software than 360 overall, and look at the top selling Wii games, and list the shovelware titles - they ain't there.....

Also do me one last favor, go to ebay, and search 'lot of PS2 games'. Let's introduce you to some great 'Sony'(by your logic) shovelware.....

Edited on by eugenewrayburn

Hardcore, casual = marketing. The real divide is between arcade and narrative games.

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Adam

7. Posted:

I don't know, Rm88. I don't think the Wii's current library is any worse than the Gamecube's, and that was the generation when they were farthest behind the pack. But you could be right.

@eugene
I have never seen Bonanza, or even heard of it. What is special about this Roberts character?
And about the PS3, how's that make it a Trojan horse? Yes, the Trojan horse was ambitious like the PS3... but it was also successful -- a key difference. :D

Come on, friends,
To the bear arcades again.

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eugenewrayburn

8. Posted:

Oh, in that sense Adam - lol - ok, I get it : Also :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pernell_Roberts

"He came to prominence playing Ben Cartwright's urbane eldest son, Adam, in the Western television series Bonanza. Despite the show’s success, he left after the sixth season in 1965 due to disagreements with the writers and a desire to return to legitimate theatre. Among other complaints, Roberts argued that a 34-year-old, educated, Eastern-born man would not be calling his father "Pa." The writers tacitly agreed not to exceed three "Pa" references per episode."

"He is best known for his roles as Ben Cartwright's eldest son, Adam Cartwright, on the western series Bonanza (a role he played from 1959 to 1965), and as chief surgeon, Dr. Trapper John MacIntyre, the title character on Trapper John, M.D. He is also known for his activism, which included participation in the Selma to Montgomery marches in 1965, and pressuring NBC to refrain from hiring Caucasians to portray minority characters."

On the show Adam was tough and cool. Too sensitive for the area perhaps, and the only one of the 3 sons who would stand up to Pa.....

Hardcore, casual = marketing. The real divide is between arcade and narrative games.

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greyelephant

9. Posted:

@Adam
I understand your point, but in truth the Wii isn't much more powerful then the Gamecube. Plus with the ability to play Gamecube games on the Wii, I really don't understand this arguement. Now if you want to take just the Gamecube games and compare them to Wii games, I guess you could. I just don't understand the point of it. These are essentially nothing more than 2 systems in 1. One just happens to have the wiimote as it's primary control.

It's like saying the PS1 was better then the PS2. Which nobody would, but I think you might understand my point.

Edited on by greyelephant

Mario Kart code, 4854 6869 0410 "Tim"
Animal Crossings City Folk Code:1119-1011-8429 , Name: Emily, Town: Peachy

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gameking23

10. Posted:

The PS1 is better than the PS2. There I said it of course I'm Jk.

Edited on by gameking23

I rule when it comes to games. So deal with it.

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Adam

11. Posted:

greyelephant wrote:

@Adam
I understand your point, but in truth the Wii isn't much more powerful then the Gamecube. Plus with the ability to play Gamecube games on the Wii, I really don't understand this arguement. Now if you take just the Gamecube games and want to compare them to Wii games, I guess you could. I just don't understand the point of it. These are essentially nothing more than 2 systems in 1.

It's like saying the PS1 was better then the PS2. Which nobody would, but I think you might understand my point.

No, I don't think you understand my point. ;)
I am quite aware that Wii can play GC games, but it doesn't change the fact that they're GC games. My point was that Nintendo's output during the GC era was generally regarded as some of its worst -- not that it was bad, but that it wasn't up to par with previous Nintendo games. Games that were made exclusively for Wii have generally been at least as good if not better. GC was its worst performing system while Wii is probably the best (I think?), and yet I don't think that financial stress (if you can call it that) made the output during the Gamecube's generation any better for it. So if Nintendo were to fall "off the mountain," I don't know that you could assume it would force them to make better games.

Come on, friends,
To the bear arcades again.

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Rm88

12. Posted:

@ eugene:
I never said Nintendo produced the shovelware, but you know that. You also know I'm not comparing the Wii library to the PS2 library. Also, I wasn't talking about the attach rate - some fantastic 3rd party games are selling poorly on Wii, this is why we don't get games like Street Fighter IV or Tekken 6 (power is not an issue, huge hits like Street Fighter II and Mortal Kombat were ported to the freaking Game Boy, it was worth the effort).

@Adam:
I personally think Nintendo did a better job with their 1st party titles with the GCN, we still have to see F-Zero, Wave Race, DK, Kirby, Star Fox, etc.

Edited on by Rm88

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greyelephant

13. Posted:

weirdadam wrote:

greyelephant wrote:

@Adam
I understand your point, but in truth the Wii isn't much more powerful then the Gamecube. Plus with the ability to play Gamecube games on the Wii, I really don't understand this arguement. Now if you take just the Gamecube games and want to compare them to Wii games, I guess you could. I just don't understand the point of it. These are essentially nothing more than 2 systems in 1.

It's like saying the PS1 was better then the PS2. Which nobody would, but I think you might understand my point.

No, I don't think you understand my point. ;)
I am quite aware that Wii can play GC games, but it doesn't change the fact that they're GC games. My point was that Nintendo's output during the GC era was generally regarded as some of its worst -- not that it was bad, but that it wasn't up to par with previous Nintendo games. Games that were made exclusively for Wii have generally been at least as good if not better. GC was its worst performing system while Wii is probably the best (I think?), and yet I don't think that financial stress (if you can call it that) made the output during the Gamecube's generation any better for it. So if Nintendo were to fall "off the mountain," I don't know that you could assume it would force them to make better games.

Here's my feelings on this. I belive that the Gamecube was "filler" for Nintendo who just had to come out with something at the time because everybody else was. The Gamecube had some great games on it, but still lacked in areas (I think we all know the pain). I feel that if given more time that we would've never seen a Gamecube if Nintendo had enough time to get the Wii developed and on the market. The Gamecube was just a stepping stone to where Nintendo really wanted to be.

Of course this is all speculation..............or is it? :)

@RM88
Yup! I couldn't agree more. If you wish to compare one library to another, the Gamecube wins for now.

Edited on by greyelephant

Mario Kart code, 4854 6869 0410 "Tim"
Animal Crossings City Folk Code:1119-1011-8429 , Name: Emily, Town: Peachy

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Adam

14. Posted:

Guys, what you're not taking into account is that the Gamecube is finished. Its library is complete. The Wii still has time to get to those missing titles. I don't think it's fair to say that just yet. My fingers are still crossed for F-Zero and Star Fox, and I'm sure we'll see Pikmin 3!

Edited on by Adam

Come on, friends,
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greyelephant

15. Posted:

weirdadam wrote:

Guys, what you're not taking into account is that the Gamecube is finished. Its library is complete. The Wii still has time to get to those missing titles. I don't think it's fair to say that just yet. My fingers are still crossed for F-Zero and Star Fox, and I'm sure we'll see Pikmin 3!

No, I'm taking that into account. Right now the Gamecube had better games than the Wii has currently. After E3 this could change. (crosses fingers)

I believe that the N64 was the darkest hour for Nintendo. Gamecube was hard pressed to compete because tons of people had already left Nintendo for Sony due to the N64's failures. Sure N64 had some great games, but overall to me, this is still the begining of the darkest hour for Nintendo.

Edited on by greyelephant

Mario Kart code, 4854 6869 0410 "Tim"
Animal Crossings City Folk Code:1119-1011-8429 , Name: Emily, Town: Peachy

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Adam

16. Posted:

Whenever I see myself quoted as "weirdadam" I find my credibility dropping, and with it my ability to respond intelligently. :(
I was never a fan of the Gamecube except for Melee and the first Prime, so to me the Wii is a huge improvement.

Come on, friends,
To the bear arcades again.

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greyelephant

17. Posted:

weirdadam wrote:

Whenever I see myself quoted as "weirdadam" I find my credibility dropping, and with it my ability to respond intelligently. :(
I was never a fan of the Gamecube except for Melee and the first Prime, so to me the Wii is a huge improvement.

HA!

I noticed that as well. Why does it do that? Are you just that strange? ;)

Mario Kart code, 4854 6869 0410 "Tim"
Animal Crossings City Folk Code:1119-1011-8429 , Name: Emily, Town: Peachy

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Adam

18. Posted:

The admins are calling it a "bug." :D

Come on, friends,
To the bear arcades again.

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eugenewrayburn

19. Posted:

First off all, I want nothing to do with Star Fox on Wii unless it is MUCH better than what we saw on GC....to me that is a nonstarter.

Pikmin 3 is reportedly - from Miyamoto - in the works.

But lets list the games, GC vs Wii, at this stage in their lives, Nintendo support only.....and I would take Wii, overall : (courtesy of wikipedia)

Wii :

2006
Wii Sports
Excite Truck
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
2007
WarioWare: Smooth Moves
Wii Play
Eyeshield 21: Field Saikyō no Senshi (Japan only)
Super Paper Mario
Mario Party 8
Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree
Pokémon Battle Revolution
Mario Strikers Charged
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
Donkey Kong Barrel Blast
Battalion Wars 2
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (Published by Nintendo in Japan only)
Super Mario Galaxy
Link's Crossbow Training
2008
Wii Chess (Europe only)
Everyone's Common Knowledge Television (Japan only)
Endless Ocean
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Mario Kart Wii
Wii Fit
Mario Super Sluggers
Wario Land: Shake It!
Fatal Frame IV (Japan only)
Captain Rainbow (Japan only)
Wii Music
Disaster: Day of Crisis (Japan, Europe and Australia only)
Animal Crossing: City Folk
Dr. Mario Online Rx
My Pokémon Ranch
Magnetica Twist
Art Style: ORBIENT
Art Style: CUBELLO
Art Style: ROTOHEX
MaBoShi: The Three Shape Arcade

2009
New Play Control! 2009
New Play Control! Mario Power Tennis
New Play Control! Pikmin
New Play Control! Donkey Kong Jungle Beat
Excitebots
Lonpos
Kimi to Boku to Rittai
Bonsai Barber

Gamcube :

2001
Luigi's Mansion
Pikmin
Super Smash Bros. Melee
Wave Race: Blue Storm
Doubutsu no Mori + (Japan Only)
2002
Animal Crossing
Disney's Magical Mirror Starring Mickey Mouse
Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem
Mario Party 4
Metroid Prime
NBA Courtside 2002
Star Fox Adventures
Super Mario Sunshine
Cubivore: Survival of the Fittest (Japan/North America only ; published by Nintendo in Japan Only)
Doshin the Giant (Japan/Europe Only)
2003
1080° Avalanche
F-Zero GX
Kirby Air Ride
The Legend of Zelda Collector's Edition
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Master Quest
The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker
Mario Golf: Toadstool Tour
Mario Kart: Double Dash!!
Mario Party 5
Pokémon Channel
Wario World
Doubutsu no Mori e-Plus (Japan Only)
GiFTPiA (Japan Only)
Nintendo Puzzle Collection (Japan Only)
2004
Custom Robo (Japan/North America Only) (May)
Pokémon Colosseum (March)
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles (MArch)

And either of these list are the reason why I balk when people call Nintendo lazy or accuse the of 'slacking' I mean, honestly....they have come a fair peice in terms of output since 1985....

Edited on by eugenewrayburn

Hardcore, casual = marketing. The real divide is between arcade and narrative games.

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CowLaunch

20. Posted:

I was going to ask exactly the same question about the Trojan horse. Wasn't the old story about a present that the Greeks gave (hence the saying) that contained soldiers? As far as I'm aware the pace of the wooden structure wasn't an important detail. Am I missing something? I am fairly tired, it's quite possible that I am.

Regarding the question (and it's a good one) I think that Nintendo's dominance will soon be at an end, but as long as they have these periods of success every 20 years or so I don't mind as they'll have enough money to keep making good games.

I think Microssoft may have a period in the sun, but eventually Sony will finally have the games industry working for one platform and Nintendo will become like Sega (but better). I have no evidence for these projections, just wild guess work.

CowLaunch