Well I've listened to a lot of the podcast, and also the sections in question, and it seems to me that they were all criticizing the various companies and their press conferences. While they found some titles from each console maker that they liked, they also found a lot more that they didn't. I guess the fact that Daemon kinda went on and on calling the Wii and the Wii Remote "stupid" did make it stand out a bit, but it also seemed like he was trying to stir the other guys up a bit with the comments.
Well I'm downloading the podcast. I thought I'd at least give it a listen. I've seen this news story all day long, and I really wanted to see what exactly was said in total. I've seen many bits taken out of context before and watched as they were completely blown out of proportion. But if you'd post some parts, I'd appreciate it. Might give me a better idea of what I'm looking for.
Well in short, he said the Wii was stupid. Most of the others agreed except for one guy, Levi, said it was stupid. Levi wanted to speak his view about Nintendo's E3 conference, but none of them wanted him to bother with that, and kept calling it stupid. Usually Scoop does not focus on one specific console, and it was one of my reasons I used to listen to the podcast until they were like, "Heck with the Wii, we'll just talk about the other consoles for 30 minutes and more and don't bother to mention Nintendo for at least 3 minutes cause its dumb". I know, they have their opinion, but something that pompous will get you in trouble with the Wii console owners that they were given the short end of the stick from a podcast that most thought catered to all consoles.
Edit: Okay, so you did listened to that episode: nevermind then.
Does anyone know why Daemon left the Nintendo section of IGN? In truth I used to visit IGN often, but nowadays I'm so busy I don't have much time, sadly. I guess that's why I didn't know about the Game Scoop podcasts.
This was discussed over the course of three different podcasts, and unless a person listens to or reads all of these, they don't have the context of the meaning of what was said at all. I'll do this in three parts, chronologically. Sorry about the triple post.
EpisodeE309 wrote:
Hilary: it [the Nintendo conference] was pretty cool
Greg: Did they show anything for it?
Hilary: What about the Team Ninja Metroid? That's pretty cool, right? [...] Daemon: Nintendo's like operating in their own world. They did what they should have done when they came and they showed that they had some hard-core games coming, they kept their casual games that they're trying to get USA Today's attention with, but nobody at IGN is excited about it, none of the readers are based on the polls at IGN, nobody at E3 was excited about Nintendo's conference-
Hilary: Not even Matt Casamassina
Daemon: Not even Matt Casamassina-
Hilary: And I hate to spoil his picks but when we were talking about game of the show, he said right now he's struggling between Scribblenauts and Alan Wake.
Daemon: And yet, it's the best-selling system out there. [...] Levi: But if you're a Nintendo fan, how could you have been unhappy that morning?
Daemon: Because the Wii is stupid, Levi.
Levi: No! Noooo
Daemon: Because any games that are coming out for the Wii are going to be dumb.
Hilary: The truth comes out! Now that he's not on the Nintendo-
Daemon: Ya, the Wii is stupid. Super Mario Galaxy 2 will be another great game that should be controlled with dual analog sticks.
Greg: True. True dat.
Levi: That's the thing. If you're a Mario fan, they gave you two Mario games, you like Metroid?
Daemon: One of which I don't want to play
Levi: - here's a hardcore Metroid game
Daemon: Maybe. I mean it's, I don't know. I don't know if Tecmo can make a good Metroid game. [...] Hilary: The problem with me for the Nintendo conference is that no matter how awesome the game is that they announce, the fact of the matter is that I don't really care to hook up my Wii anymore. It's been unhooked since Mario Galaxy came out, and I don't really find anything that interests me in playing it anymore.
Daemon: I know. Even when they make a great game like Mario Galaxy, I don't want to hold the Wii remote. It's stupid.
Levi: False. False, sir.
dessert break
Daemon: We were talking about Nintendo, and I was talking about how stupid the Wii is, and Levi -[there was a bit of a discussion off-camera] was trying to protest with fisticuffs.
Hilary: glasses were thrown. [...] Daemon: But we're not going to solve that argument about whether or not the Wii is stupid tonight, but let's talk about-
Hilary: the Wii IS stupid
Daemon: Ya, there we go laughs
Hilary: All in favour of the Wii being stupid, say 'Aye'
[All except Levi and Greg say 'Aye']
Levi: Naaaaaaaay
Daemon: Greg, don't try. I mean, you don't play the Wii.
Greg: No I don't, but I agree with Levi that I wasn't like, 'oh I've been hoisted'
Daemon: What??
Greg: I don't know what I'm trying to say. [...] Anyways I agree that I wasn't tricked. I wasn't bamboozled.
Daemon: I don't think I was tricked either.
Levi: The Wii is exactly what they said it would be.
Daemon: That's fine; it's still stupid.
Hilary: Noo, they did not say that it was just going to be some dumb gimmick with a bunch of garbage games on it. They sold it on Super Mario Galaxy and Zelda, and they were like, this is going to be an amazing experience, it's going to change the way that you view games... which is true; I now view games as being retarded. laughs
Greg: They sold it to me on the fact that I could download old NES games. That sounded cool to me, as someone who never own an NES does some incomprehensible impressions
Daemon: How many VC games have you downloaded?
Greg: No no, the better question is how many have I played. I've downloaded many.
Hilary: let's be fair. I mean if the Wii had launched and they sold it on Carnival Games, it would have failed. They'd be like, 'this is what you can expect: total garbage!'
Does anyone know why Daemon left the Nintendo section of IGN? In truth I used to visit IGN often, but nowadays I'm so busy I don't have much time, sadly. I guess that's why I didn't know about the Game Scoop podcasts.
I have no idea, some said (from other Nintendo related websites) that the IGN Nintendo staff didn't like his reviews/viewpoints or something. I honestly do not know, but I wouldn't mind knowing myself.
Hilary: I think we were talking about it [something else] while we were eating dinner, on the podcast after E3
Greg: Right before he insulted the entire Nintendo nation.
Daemon: It's true, ya. I don't know if you heard about this, Hilary, but every Nintendo-
Hilary: I was there!
Daemon: - no but every Nintendo fanboy now is, oh they have it in for Game Scoop now. They're out to get us.
Nate: why what'd you say?
Daemon: Cuz we said the Wii is stupid.
Greg and Hilary: no no WE didn't say-
Daemon: I know!
Nate (?): It IS stupid.
Hilary: no, actually I think I did back you up.
Daemon: Ya you said, raise your hand if we think the Wii is stupid, and you and me and Gettys all say Ayyeeee.
Greg: Me and Levi, makin' the smart choice!
Daemon: Listeners, don't listen to Greg. Greg just doesn't want to admit it.
HIlary: I think you said something like, 'Wii is stupid', and Levi looked shocked, and I said, 'well, it is true' laughing Daemon: Ya I didn't know that that was news, really. I thought it had been common knowledge for years now.
Hilary: It's like screaming 'Santa isn't real' in a children's shop.
Greg: Where they're making children.
Hilary: Cmon there were probably Nintendo employees listening to that podcast going, 'hm meh, that's true'.
[after reader mail question]
Daemon: I wasn't attacking anybody personally, I was talking about the Wii. I was talking about the system. It's a big hunk of plastic and gears and tubes.
Hilary: And feelings!
Daemon: I have been living with the Wii for 2 and a half years now, I've probably played more Wii games than any of our listeners, I know what it can do, I know all of its faults. So, in my professional opinion, the Wii is stupid [...] I think Metroid Prime 3 is a good game, but I still-
Hilary: I'm sorry, but the Wii is just a gigantic gimmick.
Daemon: Exactly. That is our point. It was supposed to be a peripheral for the Gamecube, and Nintendo said, 'hey let's make a whole console out of this gimmick,' and it just doesn't work.
Hilary: Ya they're like, 'hey here's the thing, if we just duct-tape two Gamecubes together-
Greg: Oh god, now you're just [...]
Daemon: There are great games for it, like World of Goo and Strong Bad and those actually control well with the pointer, and they are Gamecube games that should have been played with a peripheral. That's what they are. They just don't cut it. I doesn't work well to build a whole console around that one idea.
Nate: Nintendo's fricken geniuses man though I mean they marketed it so well.
Daemon: I think it was a brilliant business decision.
Nate: Ya exactly, I think if they had released another gamecube it wouldn't have done nearly as well. The gamecube had its little schtick there and it was a failing console.
Greg: I think the thing with Daemon is that he was tortured with bad Wii games so long that he takes this argument very much to heart.
Daemon: There could be something to that.
Greg: Like it's one of those things I think as a Wii owner... I don't hate my Wii and I don't think it's like the dumbest thing in the world-
Daemon: You also don't play it.
Greg: and I don't play it. I bought it though knowing that was going to happen. Like I never bought it thinking it's the next-gen experience.
Hilary: No see I was like, first in line, launch day, bought a bunch of games, and it hasn't been hooked up since Mario Galaxy, to be honest with you, and I've yet to be inspired by a game I really want to even bother connecting the thing again to play. But, it's like the Wii really is a crime against Nintendo fans because I love Nintendo franchise stuff and really, if the Wii failed and they had to get out of the hardware, they could just make a friggen Zelda game for PS3-
Daemon: That would be awesome
Hilary: - and you know a Mario game for 360 -
Daemon: That'd be great
Hilary: -and how awesome would those games look and how great would they be, and how fantastic would that be for those systems, and instead, you're stuck with this garbage Wii, and I see Mario Galaxy, and I'm like, augh, I want to play too, and I'm like, augh, but at the same time I've got to play stupid Wii, with the crappy wiimote
Daemon: I know, you have to shake to make Mario spin and point at stars and I don't want to do that.
Someone: ...whereas on Wii, without the technology there, you can make the games look kinda crappy and get away with it, so you don't have to put a lot of money behind it.
Greg: See the thing about the Wii is that their games are fun. [Others say: "yeah"] Marble Saga is fun. You know what I mean? I enjoyed that game.
Daemon: I've said many times, there are good games on the Wii, but I'm not sold that motion controls should be the default control and the idea behind this system. [Greg: Exactly.] It was designed as a peripheral for the Gamecube. [Someone: It was.] And the greatest games on the Wii like World of Goo, like Swords and Soldiers, they could have been Gamecube games played with that peripheral, you know? That's just me. I don't need a whole system built on that.
Someone: But that's the core controller.
Daemon: I know. That's what I don't like about it.
Someone: Okay.
Daemon: That's all I'm saying.
Someone: That's fine. I wasn't in that podcast where you said that the Wii was stupid. That is a direct quote, right?
Daemon: Oh ya.
Someone: I got a lot of emails about you saying that the Wii is stupid. Just in context, what did you mean by "Wii is stupid"? The controller?
Daemon: There's a million things about it. Motion control is a gimmick that works well in some games but shouldn't be the default control for the whole system. Can I also say a non-HD system doesn't cut it today. I want a beautiful graphical experience.
Someone: Sure but it just doesn't cut it for a hardcore user though
Daemon: And that's me. I'm only speaking for myself. [...] Greg: I think we're on the same page. I already talked about it beforehand that I feel that the Wii motion stuff is forced into games that shouldn't be there for, that's the main control. Cuz I mean you have the nunchuk and it could easily be that I'm just going to do this one-analog stick game and make it work, no problem. But on the comment of is it an HD error... back when I still lived in Missouri and wrote for a newspaper, the only system that came out that I was excited for that I bought on day 1 was the Wii. And it was because I did not have the money or the internet at my house to support getting a 360, not to mention I did not have gold fillings and whatever a second mortgage on the house to buy a PS3.
Daemon: Where are we today, you know? You don't play your Wii. [...] There are more I could say. It doesn't offer any sort of persistent gamer profile. [...] Turning on my Wii - this is a huge issue for me - is a very lonely experience. I turn on my 360, I can see what my friends are playing, I play a game like Geometry Wars and I see all their high scores and I can try to beat their high scores. I love that! I turn on my Wii - it's just me. All alone in my house. [...] that's ANOTHER problem. That's [Friend Codes] another stupid thing!
Someone: I agree with [there are] stupid things about the Wii, but to give it an all-encompassing 'the Wii is stupid', I think is a little unfair.
He obviously has some strong opinions on the Wii and Nintendo's pushing the motion controls onto games that he feels would be just as well played with a standard controller, but I honestly got the impression that he was ranting, maybe to stir Levi up a bit. While I wouldn't have gone on a public podcast and start calling ANY console stupid, mainly out of fear for my life, he obviously wasn't concerned about it, and doesn't seem to be still. But it's still a free country and you can say what you want to. But he's used up any credibility he'll ever have about covering any Wii games in the future. I guess as long as he doesn't cover them, it won't really matter. And since it's been stated that he's moved to another section of IGN, I guess that's been covered.
He obviously has some strong opinions on the Wii and Nintendo's pushing the motion controls onto games that he feels would be just as well played with a standard controller, but I honestly got the impression that he was ranting, maybe to stir Levi up a bit. While I wouldn't have gone on a public podcast and start calling ANY console stupid, mainly out of fear for my life, he obviously wasn't concerned about it, and doesn't seem to be still. But it's still a free country and you can say what you want to. But he's used up any credibility he'll ever have about covering any Wii games in the future. I guess as long as he doesn't cover them, it won't really matter. And since it's been stated that he's moved to another section of IGN, I guess that's been covered.
Not that it matters anymore. I really doubt anyone, that likes the Wii, will take him seriously. Plus, I really doubt he will do anything related about the Wii.
The one thing that does stand for him, at least I hope he still does, is that he feels skeptical about the other consoles motion control thingies. Again, time will tell if he feels the same way or become a massive hypocrite.
While I wouldn't have gone on a public podcast and start calling ANY console stupid, mainly out of fear for my life
LOL! I don't think he used up his credibility though. Look, is it any fairer and "less biased" to have only people who love the Wii and love all Wii games reviewing games on Wii? I don't think so.
Once read in context, you see that he doesn't actually mean that every Wii game is dumb and bad. In fact, he actually expresses the same opinion that most people in this forum hold (about motion controls and stuff). He was just expressing it in the way that you would express your feelings over dinner with your friends after consuming a lot of alcohol Which is, by the way, how the podcast was recorded.
that podcast sonded like it was "brought to you by" microsoft.
Actually, only Hilary is a 360 fanboy. Daemon and Greg are big on the PS3 (Beyond!) and Nate's the sports editor, I think. They spend like 10 minutes in the last podcast right before the part I quoted talking about how the 360 sucks and breaks all the time.
Scoopers know that they insult pretty much everyone. They constantly make fun of the 360's failure rate, they talk about how Sony seems perfectly okay with being in last place and not trying at all, and now, they criticise the Wii. No-one except Wii fanboys gets worked up into a lather about their constant joking slights at every console and console-maker.
I see what you mean, but I'm talking more about people automatically jumping to conclusions, as has already happened. These people won't take another word he says about the Wii seriously now as they feel like he has a vendetta against the Wii. I understand what he's saying and in some ways agree that sometimes the motion controls are forced down our throats and used in games that would be just as well suited with the standard controller.
As you said, these podcasts are very relaxed and casual, but most sites are only running those little segments of comments and not many people are going to take the time to go listen to the actual podcast and hear them in context. They'll merely dismiss him as nothing more than a Wii hater and move on.
well I dident know that. but out of context it does sound like their picking on the wii since im no scooper.
They had this funny contest on The Hotspot where you had to quote any review of a terrible game giving it an awful score and pull the quote out of context to make one of those praising box quotes. It was pretty hilarious how you can selectively quote things to make them sound like something entirely else.
So anyway, lest anyone think I agree that the Wii is stupid or that I think it's fine to say things like that, here are my main two points:
1) The Scoop guys (and lately, girl) constantly take potshots at Sony, MS, and Ninty, and their respective consoles. It's all for the laffs. It may be true that many Ninty fans wouldn't take his coverage of Wii games seriously anymore, and I think that's sad. It just shows 360 and PS3 fans that they're right: Ninty fanboys are childish. No-one else has temper tantrums when Scoop criticises or makes fun of their fav system, which they do mercilessly. But Ninty fanboys jump on a quote from a podcast they haven't heard and have a hissy fit over it. They demand complete allegiance to Nintendo from reviewers, or else they scream bias and refuse to listen.
2) Just because Daemon has issues with the Wii and with the way motion control has been implemented does NOT mean he has a bias against Wii games that makes him untrustworthy as a Wii game reviewer. He's played tons of Wii games and this is the opinion that he has reached about it, and if you read what he actually meant (his elaboration of it), then you'll see that his opinions probably aren't that far off from your own and are quite reasonable.
It wasent meant to be and angry comment but rather an "rolling my eyes" more fanboy-ism comment. out of context I thought they were fanboys since i have no intrest in podcast's and I have no experence with IGN.
I look at it this way - a gamer like Daemon who's been in the gaming media for as long as he has, knows what game fans are like and how loyal to certain games and consoles they can be. I know what would happen if I was to go on a podcast and make the statements he made, even if that's the way I really felt, and he knew it too. Sites would grab those comments and post them out of context all across the internet for fans to see and the uproar would ensue, which it did. Maybe that's what he wanted to happen, honestly. What is it they say, there's no such thing as "bad" publicity.
It wasent meant to be and angry comment but rather an "rolling my eyes" more fanboy-ism comment. out of context I thought they were fanboys since i have no intrest in podcast's and I have no experence with IGN.
I understand what you mean. No worries.
I don't mean to insult you as calling you childish. But in general (not talking about you but talking about the way harsh reactions to this in the letters and comments he received and the yelps of bias), it's stuff like this that furthers my belief that Nintendo fanboys are the second-worst kind of fanboy out there.
They're second only to Sonic fanboys in my mind because, whereas Ninty fanboys draw pedophilic hentai of the child-like female nintendo characters, Sonic fanboys draw homoerotic furry hentai of Sonic characters, which is, upon consideration, slightly more disturbing.
I've actually liked the reviews of his I have read. That's why I was a bit surprised to read about this uproar.
Yup. Exactly. He's a great reviewer, and a very funny guy (you just have to listen to the podcasts and watch the Game Scoop News Break videos to see that.) But regardless of the facts on paper - without even considering whether the scores he gave are fair and reflect audience opinion and whether he gave a good analysis of the merits and demerits of games in his coverage - everyone's ready to pin the scarlet letter on his chest - a B for Biased!
Since when did having a negative opinion about the Wii and the way motion controls prove bias that makes the person's reviews unfair? People act as if it's the most obvious thing that it's a bad idea to have him reviewing Wii games. I don't see why at all.
If you ever said the Wii is stupid on a drunken podcast, I promise that I'd triple-post quote you in full context to defend your honour. Well, maybe. I mean, he does have a very sexy voice, which made listening to all that a lot easier on the ears. I'm not sure if you can compete.
I think Nintendo fans get upset about seeing the Wii bashed in or out of context because it gets more than its fair share. Just about the only thing that both sides of the rabbid PS3/360 console war can agree on is "the Wii sucks," and we're tired of hearing it as a result!
As it goes, I think this guy made some good points, but in a bad way (hello, eugenewrayburn!). I kind of wish there was more Classic Controller support on Wii than there is. I'm VERY glad for the classic controls mode in Punch-Out!! But the problem is nowhere near as bad now as it was at Wii launch. They REALLY tacked on the crappy controls back then!
But I have no real problem with the controls for Mario Galaxy or Twilight Princess. Sure, waggling a little bit to do a very basic and much-needed move can be annoying, but it's not game-breaking, and it's certainly not a reason to not want to play the games.
My Backloggery Updated sporadically. Got my important online ID's on there, anyway. :P
@Clicketyclick: From what I read in your posts, I wouldn't want that guy reviewing Wii games either. It really DOESN'T make sense to accept reviews from someone who doesn't like what he's reviewing, and even though he's retracted some of the severity of what he said, I still wouldn't trust a Wii review from him. Just like I don't trust most Nintendo game reviews from Game Informer, because they're all obviously biased against anything that isn't uber-realistic and all that modern garbage (I like some of that stuff, but not TOO much!). Would you trust a review of Madden from me after I tell you that I loathe football and the Madden franchise? I doubt it. Same idea applies here, I think.
Double-post courtesy of PS3 web browser limitations. That, and post #59 came up as I typed #60.
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Topic: Daemon Hatfield bashes Wii in IGN Podcast
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