I'll go with your numbers and not count the Wiimakes, which makes it an even 3 to 3
And this is where you're wrong. You're counting games Nintendo had heavy involvement in, like Brawl, as not being from Nintendo. And you're counting games Nintendo doesn't need to spend a lot of time with, from what people have been telling me, in those remakes.
You can't count remakes and not count Brawl, Battalion Wars, etc. It doesn't work that way.
I know I can buy the Metroid Prime games used for cheap, I just want to play them with the Wii controls. I really liked how Metroid Prime 3 controlled. I can't see myself being interested in any of the other NPC games though.
First off, NPC Mario Power Tennis has better controls than any review I've read seems to suggest. Unlike most Wii games, however, they really do work better if you have more room in which to move around as you play. I played the game at a friend's house last night. In their huge living room, it played GREAT! It still plays very well in my small bedroom, but not as much. If you want to argue that it has a learning curve, I won't disagree. But that doesn't make the controls bad. They're actually very good, very precise.
I like that "slapped-on controls" comment, AlexSays. You obviously haven't actually PLAYED these games, or you'd know that they were carefully programmed in with such quality and care that someone buying them for the first time on Wii would never think it wasn't the original version if it wasn't for the huge "NEW PLAY CONTROL" label on the box.
Apparently, adding widescreen support doesn't matter to anybody but me, as I'm the only poster on this thread who's mentioned it thus far. That too was done very well, and is a welcome addition to the games.
I can attribute several things to Pikmin not selling where I work, one HUGE factor being that it's on the TOP SHELF. Stupid place for it, really. Nobody even SEES it up there a lot of the time! Also, the box art doesn't draw the eye where it should for Brawl fans who've never played Pikmin. I know this from talking to a customer who, when shown up close that Olimar is in the game, was VERY interested in the game just because Olimar is also in Brawl. But since the game uses the original box art from Gamecube (plus the garish border which most likely makes people want to ignore the game; need to finish turning the box art inside-out in-store), all you really see is a huge monster. Might turn some people off at first glance. The fact that it is a one-player game is actually also a larger factor than you might think, as most people coming into Gamestop for a Wii game seem to want something for the whole family. I rarely get a chance to recommend Pikmin to anyone for that very reason.
Moving on to Mario Tennis. While it still doesn't sell all THAT well, I think it's doing a bit better than Pikmin. It's on a lower, more visible shelf, for one thing. It's also multiplayer, another HUGE plus on Wii as I've just said. But the main thing keeping people from buying it is fear of crappy controls. Not because of reviews, even, but because they've played OTHER Wii tennis games with crappy controls and think this one will be just as bad, not realizing that Nintendo knows how to program for Wii FAR better than anyone else (some Wii customers don't even understand the idea of publishers and developers, for some weird reason. Not that different from there being a lot of different movie companies, is it?). This, too, is something I've learned from talking with customers.
You glazed right over certain facts for Wii, too. If a Wii customer who's never owned a Gamecube wants to play Mario Power Tennis, we can break down cost. For starters, let's assume they already have enough Wii controllers for every player because they've had the Wii for a few months and own Mario Party 8, Mario Kart Wii, whatever. It's also easier to assume they're shopping at Gamestop and NOT online, as this is the far more common circumstance with such people. To play the Gamecube version, they would first need the game. Assuming the store they're in has a copy, it's still $30 USED! Add to that a Gamecube controller for each person AND a memory card, not even to mention the fact that they'd probably rather have motion controls to begin with, and they could easily spend upwards of $75 to play that ONE GAME! Or they could just buy the NPC version for $30 NEW and go play it.
Take away talking about Mario Power Tennis, and it's STILL a matter of cost and availability. Most Wii gamers don't shop online. This is fact, whether you choose to accept it or not. Pikmin used on Gamecube, IF your store has a copy, is $25. Add to that one Gamecube controller and a memory card, and it's just not worth the cost when there's a Wii version right there! Pikmin 2 is even worse, being rarer and costing $40 IF you can find a copy!
With Pikmin, you could obviously make a new game no trouble. There's got to be room for improvement and/or innovation. Would a random customer walk in and buy "Pikmin 3" with no prior experience with the series? Not likely.
With Mario Tennis, you have to ask how much more they could really do with the series. Mario Power Tennis is so good already that making a brand new Mario Tennis game probably couldn't add much anyway. So adding Wii controls and a couple other minor tweaks to the Gamecube game saves time, effort, and money that might have been wasted on an entirely new product while still delivering excellence to customers.
Meanwhile, these games ARE adding some pretty cool features that may attract "hardcore" gamers like myself (I've bought both NPC games thus far, and plan to get more when they release). Hard to find fault with that unless you're so jaded that you think it's only okay to accept ENTIRELY new games. Given the circumstances surrounding the Wii and the supply of copies of older Gamecube games, it actually DOES make sense in every way to remake certain titles, even though the Wii can play the original versions as well.
If you don't want to buy the games, that's certainly your prerogative. Making up crap about why WE shouldn't buy them either is a waste of everybody's time. I'm almost surprised you brought this up, actually, since I recall you being a defender of Nintendo's "screw our loyal fans" business approach (which, incidentally, I don't see them doing lately; things are looking up for us now!).
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First off, NPC Mario Power Tennis has better controls than any review I've read seems to suggest. Unlike most Wii games, however, they really do work better if you have more room in which to move around as you play. I played the game at a friend's house last night. In their huge living room, it played GREAT! It still plays very well in my small bedroom, but not as much. If you want to argue that it has a learning curve, I won't disagree. But that doesn't make the controls bad. They're actually very good, very precise.
And that's great. I've already said we're all unique like snowflakes. When tons of other people find fault with the controls, you know the only real change, there is a problem.
Even Nintendo Life's very own NPC Mario-reviewer told us he was unsure of how much an "improvement" Mario Tennis can be considered.
Stuffgamer1 wrote:
I like that "slapped-on controls" comment, AlexSays. You obviously haven't actually PLAYED these games, or you'd know that they were carefully programmed in with such quality and care that someone buying them for the first time on Wii would never think it wasn't the original version if it wasn't for the huge "NEW PLAY CONTROL" label on the box.
Hey you can give slapped-on an elaborate definition. I'm using it in the sense it's their only excuse for making these "new" games. I'm not getting into the technical stuff.
Stuffgamer1 wrote:
You glazed right over certain facts for Wii, too. If a Wii customer who's never owned a Gamecube wants to play Mario Power Tennis, we can break down cost. For starters, let's assume they already have enough Wii controllers for every player because they've had the Wii for a few months and own Mario Party 8, Mario Kart Wii, whatever. It's also easier to assume they're shopping at Gamestop and NOT online, as this is the far more common circumstance with such people. To play the Gamecube version, they would first need the game. Assuming the store they're in has a copy, it's still $30 USED! Add to that a Gamecube controller for each person AND a memory card, not even to mention the fact that they'd probably rather have motion controls to begin with, and they could easily spend upwards of $75 to play that ONE GAME! Or they could just buy the NPC version for $30 NEW and go play it.
Glazed? Well you see that stems from my infatuation with donuts. I'll try to keep it to a minimum though here on the forum.
And you're example is great, I admit. Unfortunately there are more single player NPC games than multiplayer. What will work for Mario Tennis will not work for others.
Heck, some people might find a GC controller, memory card, and a used game a buck or two cheaper than some of these remakes. And then if they already have the necessary equipment, suddenly having Metroid Prime 1 and 2 and others just got really cheap. Like you said, Pikmin 2 is $40 though most places, so yeah... Buying that game used won't help much. lol
Stuffgamer1 wrote:
With Mario Tennis, you have to ask how much more they could really do with the series. Mario Power Tennis is so good already that making a brand new Mario Tennis game probably couldn't add much anyway. So adding Wii controls and a couple other minor tweaks to the Gamecube game saves time, effort, and money that might have been wasted on an entirely new product while still delivering excellence to customers.
We really only get one tennis game a gen from Mario and co. Knowing that, I think most would agree with me and Thomas in that we wish Nintendo - even if they used a lot from the Gamecube game because sports games usually do - would have held off and made a Mario tennis game with Wii Motion Plus.
This seems like a hurried attempt to put a Mario Tennis game on the market, so they have a reason not to make one with Wii Motion Plus. Also if it weren't for NPC Tennis, would we see a new game? Though some might still think we could get another before the end of the Wii's lifespan.
Stuffgamer1 wrote:
Hard to find fault with that unless you're so jaded that you think it's only okay to accept ENTIRELY new games.
Only when old games might take away from new games. Resident Evil 4 wasn't a big deal. Resident Evil 5 wasn't being made for the Wii, so the Wii team could just port this game over with no rush. Here we have no definitive proof except for a major decline in games. I have to go by that and assume this is either taking up certain developers' time, or being used as a placeholder so Nintendo doesn't have to release anything new.
Stuffgamer1 wrote:
If you don't want to buy the games, that's certainly your prerogative. Making up crap about why WE shouldn't buy them either is a waste of everybody's time. I'm almost surprised you brought this up, actually, since I recall you being a defender of Nintendo's "screw our loyal fans" business approach (which, incidentally, I don't see them doing lately; things are looking up for us now!).
I haven't made anything up. I've compared Nintendo's output of games to another recent time span, and presented the idea these remakes could be taking away new games. This year Nintendo has more old games announced than new games. That isn't made up. That also has never happened before.
There is also a difference between past arguments and this one. Just because someone defends Nintendo once, doesn't mean they think Nintendo is right on every front.
Seriously i so tired of people tell me what to buy and not. So if i want to own 2 or 3 gamecube games, i have to buy a controler, a memory card, and the said disc THAT all of this stuff is pretty hard to find around here? I will buy the wiimakes that i want, HELL, i buy what i want. In fact i already bought one that i wanted to play for ages, Pikmin.
@StuffGamer1, long post! I'll address a few things:
Store positioning only affects impulse buyers, marketing is where the real sales come in. I worked 4 years in video-games retail, and all the successfull games were the ones customer knew before coming into the store.
And the controls are slapped on, lets face it; Nintendo took GameCube games and added new controls, without changing the content.
What makes financial sense impacts on my point though; I think anything that keeps Nintendo afloat should be supported.
Okay now I want to test this. lol
The Virtual Boy and Wii Music should have been supported?
Oh and Nintendo is having no problem keeping afloat, so this isn't a "Oh if we don't buy these rip-offs/quick-cash-ins Nintendo might not make it" situation.
No, that's just being asinine; you know what I meant. I'm taking the stance of a long-time Nintendo fan; I want to see them succeed and not make the same mistakes of the GameCube -- i.e. thinking that catering to the 'hardcore' will keep them afloat.
No, that's just being asinine; you know what I meant. I'm taking the stance of a long-time Nintendo fan; I want to see them succeed and not make the same mistakes of the GameCube -- i.e. thinking that catering to the 'hardcore' will keep them afloat.
@StuffGamer1, long post! I'll address a few things:
Store positioning only affects impulse buyers, marketing is where the real sales come in. I worked 4 years in video-games retail, and all the successfull games were the ones customer knew before coming into the store.
And the controls are slapped on, lets face it; Nintendo took GameCube games and added new controls, without changing the content.
Did you work during the Wii era? Sales of Wii games occur based on placement in the store FAR more than on any other system due to the large number of gaming novices shopping the section. There may be people who come in looking for the game but don't see it and don't ask. I used to be that kind of customer, actually. I'm tall enough (6'3") that I can see games on the top shelf. Some people can't, even if they want what's there. But that was only one of my stated factors, anyway. You can choose how you think it really affects things based on your experience, and I don't mind. It's really just a theory anyway.
As far as "slapped-on" goes, I tend to equate that term with multisystem games from third parties. They usually pour a LOT more effort into the games on the other systems, and just put in some poorly-planned motion control on the Wii. That's why I refuted the statement before by saying that the NPC series has GOOD controls.
As I said, though, they did change the content. Moreso with Pikmin than Mario Power Tennis, admittedly. More obviously, anyway. Tennis had a few small touches that you might not notice were you not looking for them (either that, or my memory of the Gamecube version is a bit fuzzy). Not HUGE changes, but they're there. Nintendo COULD'VE been lazy and literally done nothing but add motion controls and widescreen support (and even though they claim ALL Wii games need the latter, I've seen a few without, so they might've been able to avoid that if they wanted to), screwing the other updates. These games do show an outpouring of love for the game with the interest in making the experience better overall.
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I highly doubt that buying these games (or not buying them) will efffect new releases one way or the other, at least in a big way.
And that could very well be the problem. People might mistake this for something small, and only realize the full effect when we're reduced to only a couple new games a year, and a constant barrage of NPC titles from every Nintendo system ever released.
As for one of your other points, I'm glad not everyone has had that attitude throughout history. People shouldn't NOT stick up to their beliefs because they think it'll make no difference.
Sure nobody here is trying to keep their seat on a certain bus, but the idea remains.
The idea remains, but the none of the importance does. All this amounts to is a bunch of whiny fans throwing a fit because they aren't getting what they want. That isn't what I would call a noble cause, and certainly not one worth standing up for. When you want to try and stand up for morals, I'll understand.
In the meantime, have a blast protesting a series of budget remakes, I'm sure that -1 sale will force Nintendo into making some games that you'll enjoy more.
And as a further note to throw in here: I won't be buying any of these NPC games. But at the same time I don't feel the need to protest Nintendo's marketing strategy. Gaming is a hobby, not a lifestyle. At least to me. So if they want to make some cheap cash-ins now and then I certainly don't mind. Nobody is forcing me to buy them, afterall.
Did you work during the Wii era? Sales of Wii games occur based on placement in the store FAR more than on any other system due to the large number of gaming novices shopping the section. There may be people who come in looking for the game but don't see it and don't ask. I used to be that kind of customer, actually. I'm tall enough (6'3") that I can see games on the top shelf. Some people can't, even if they want what's there. But that was only one of my stated factors, anyway. You can choose how you think it really affects things based on your experience, and I don't mind. It's really just a theory anyway.
Yup, I worked for the release of the Wii and for a few months after. I see what you mean though; there is quite an uneducated (in terms of gaming knowledge) audience out there who will go on what they see. Still, I think that marketing is the main deciding factor for games -- Professor Layton and the Curious Village is a fantastic example to use here in the UK.
Stuffgamer1 wrote:
As far as "slapped-on" goes, I tend to equate that term with multisystem games from third parties. They usually pour a LOT more effort into the games on the other systems, and just put in some poorly-planned motion control on the Wii. That's why I refuted the statement before by saying that the NPC series has GOOD controls.
Pikmin had good controls, Mario Power Tennis should have been launched with the Motion plus.
Stuffgamer1 wrote:
As I said, though, they did change the content. Moreso with Pikmin than Mario Power Tennis, admittedly. More obviously, anyway. Tennis had a few small touches that you might not notice were you not looking for them (either that, or my memory of the Gamecube version is a bit fuzzy). Not HUGE changes, but they're there. Nintendo COULD'VE been lazy and literally done nothing but add motion controls and widescreen support (and even though they claim ALL Wii games need the latter, I've seen a few without, so they might've been able to avoid that if they wanted to), screwing the other updates. These games do show an outpouring of love for the game with the interest in making the experience better overall.
I reviewed both games for the site, and didn't notice any significant additional material whatsoever.
I'm sure that -1 sale will force Nintendo into making some games that you'll enjoy more.
New games? I can only hope!
Hey man, as I edited into my post, I like my new games as well. And I won't be buying these remakes. Mostly because I own all of the Gamecube originals.
Ultimately though, I don't feel the need to try and "make a difference". Especially in something as menial as this. Maybe that makes me a bad person, who knows. Honestly though, Nintendo is releasing enough to keep me content. If they upped the amount of content I wanted to buy, I'd never be able to afford it all anyway.
I reviewed both games for the site, and didn't notice any significant additional material whatsoever.
I said in my first post on this thread that Pikmin has that feature where it saves your progress for every day instead of overwriting all the time. That's a potentially big deal to some gamers who had a great first 10 days then screwed up royally and didn't want to redo the first 10 days just to fix the problem. The very nature of the new controls in Pikmin actually let you do more stuff, too, inasmuch as the cursor isn't stuck in front of Olimar anymore. Not so much new "content" I suppose, but added features. Olimar can actually throw Pikmin about twice as far as before, which is pretty darned useful sometimes!
If you were looking for new levels or characters, then no, these games don't have "significant" new material. But one person's definition of significant doesn't always match another's, and I still find them noteworthy. Like I said, MPT has little going for it unless you like the new controls (which I do). It's got less added stuff even than Pikmin. We can all agree that it'll still sell pretty well, though.
I don't know about all this WiiMotionPlus stuff, by the way. I don't want to start saying what should and shouldn't use it until I've been able to try it out for myself and see if it's REALLY worthwhile.
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Hey man, as I edited into my post, I like my new games as well. And I won't be buying these remakes. Mostly because I own all of the Gamecube originals.
Ultimately though, I don't feel the need to try and "make a difference". Especially in something as menial as this. Maybe that makes me a bad person, who knows. Honestly though, Nintendo is releasing enough to keep me content. If they upped the amount of content I wanted to buy, I'd never be able to afford it all anyway.
No that doesn't make you a bad person. If I said "Hey everyone needs to see this my way and those that don't help are bad" then it'd be ME that was the bad person. lol
All in all I throw my view and stance out there as sort of a "Hey who's with me" sort of deal, though from some responses it must seem like it's "If you don't do this you're a terrible person" lol I'm actually a very understanding person (besides what people think; don't listen to what they say about me lol) and can see both ways. I just let my view be known to try to spark some debate and discussion so users have the opportunity to pick a stance and go for it, unlike some of those dull "What Wii games do you have" threads.
Even if it means having people like Stuffgamer hate me.
Alexsays, you posting this is sort of pointless since very few people are going to listen to you. And if anyone does listen to you, its a very limited amount. Stopping ports of GCN games on Wii is probably not going to happen since we still have Metroid Prime 1 & 2 on the way along with Donkey Kong Jungle Beat(which I`m even going to get since I missed out on it the 1st time and its supposed to have new content).
And Capcom`s bringing 2 Resident Evils to the Wii this year along with all the New Play Controls coming out.
Hope this doesn`t offend you
Just for you. "I'm just a musical prostitute, my dear." - Freddie Mercury
Alexsays, you posting this is sort of pointless since very few people are going to listen to you. And if anyone does listen to you, its a very limited amount.
Thank you for taking the time to stop by my thread and post. lol
Stopping ports of GCN games on Wii is probably not going to happen since we still have Metroid Prime 1 & 2 on the way along with Donkey Kong Jungle Beat
Nobody is expecting them to not release the remakes they've already announced. The hope is they won't announce any more, which is why I won't support these.
Would you honestly like to see remakes every year?
Yes, Yes I see what your saying but then again Nintendo is releasing more NEW titles than new-OLD titles if you would even call it that lol
Then again I`m... actually with you once you think about it. I hate the word “port”! I utterly despise that word and now with all these NPC titles on the Wii I`m going to hear it more and more... sigh
Oh and by the way Alexsays not to brake your buddy but theres one New Play Control title thats soon being released and thats Pikmin 2 :/
@AlexSays: I don't HATE you, y'know. Sure, you're kind of annoying sometimes, but then again so are most of my closest friends. I do wish you'd make it a bit clearer on a regular basis that you AREN'T condemning those who don't agree with you, because it really DOES come off that way anytime you say much of anything.
Nice sarcasm with Pikmin, by the way. I can see you aren't impressed with a better throwing arm. I've found it useful for keeping Olimar and some of my Pikmin alive, though, since I don't have to stand so close to the enemy I'm attacking.
To clarify for any who aren't aware, the NPC titles that have been announced but not yet released are as follows:
Donkey Kong Jungle Beat Pikmin 2 Metroid Prime Metroid Prime 2 Chibi-Robo
I'll probably want Jungle Beat, especially if what I've heard about actual new content proves true. The rest are all insta-buys except for Chibi-Robo. Not sure what the advantage of Wii controls for that game is. I should try the original sometime...
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