Not really, because then that would be a sim game and those are fairly pointless. Why would I play a game going around and talking to people when going out an interacting with people IRL or at the very least going to a social media site gives me the same brand of interaction but with more depth?
Exploration, man; to see the world they created. If you don't want to enjoy that, then that's your choice, but you can't deny that level design has inherent value.
There are other mediums they can do that in though.
Not really, because then that would be a sim game and those are fairly pointless. Why would I play a game going around and talking to people when going out an interacting with people IRL or at the very least going to a social media site gives me the same brand of interaction but with more depth?
Exploration, man; to see the world they created. If you don't want to enjoy that, then that's your choice, but you can't deny that level design has inherent value.
There are other mediums they can do that in though.
Uhh, no. You can't explore a level without level design and interaction. Unless you, you know, go hiking, I guess. And if that's your answer to everything then why bother chatting on a video game forum.
@Bolt_Strike Not caring about level design doesn't make platformers creatively bankrupt. It just means you don't like platformers. To imply that they're some lesser form of entertainment or that DK is beneath Retro is just insulting and ignorant. One could even argue that Retro's brilliant grasp of level design in the Prime series made them a beautiful match for a platforming game.
So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.
Not really, because then that would be a sim game and those are fairly pointless. Why would I play a game going around and talking to people when going out an interacting with people IRL or at the very least going to a social media site gives me the same brand of interaction but with more depth?
Exploration, man; to see the world they created. If you don't want to enjoy that, then that's your choice, but you can't deny that level design has inherent value.
There are other mediums they can do that in though.
You really are entirely clueless, aren't you? No, there aren't other mediums they can do that in. There are other mediums where they can guide you through the world and show you what they want you to see. Heck, you may even be able to add in some interactivity and let the reader/viewer appear as though they were exploring, but nothing comes anywhere NEAR the interactive freedom of video games.
Also, I'd like to withdraw any comments I've made about Haru thinking their opinions are facts and replace them on you, because this just shows a level of ignorance I'd rather like to forget. (C WUT I DID THAR?!?!) Seriously, though, you treat any game type that isn't your preferred game type as though it was a waste of the medium, when from what you've been telling us, it really sounds like you're the one that could get just as much out of another form of entertainment.
Not caring about level design doesn't make platformers creatively bankrupt. It just means you don't like platformers.
Uh no, I love platformers, I grew up with them. What I don't like is stagnant gameplay. And yes, only changing up level design does make them creatively bankrupt. Level design only gets you so far, the game mechanics matter more.
To imply that they're some lesser form of entertainment or that DK is beneath Retro is just insulting and ignorant.
I never said that DK is beneath them. I said that Tropical Freeze is below them because they're capable of making a much more creative DK game. I look forward to seeing them deliver a DK game that can legitimately be considered groundbreaking, but until them they are in fact wasting their talents.
You really are entirely clueless, aren't you? No, there aren't other mediums they can do that in. There are other mediums where they can guide you through the world and show you what they want you to see. Heck, you may even be able to add in some interactivity and let the reader/viewer appear as though they were exploring, but nothing comes anywhere NEAR the interactive freedom of video games.
But level design is also just what the developer wants you to see, only on a larger and more interactive scale. You can't go to places in the world that the developer never created, the game world has set boundaries. The interactivity is key here because that stems from gameplay, the "rules" of the game determine how you can interact with the level. So while the level design does hold some level of importance to the game, really it's just the medium through which the gameplay is expressed in the game, its importance is dwarfed by that of the game mechanics.
Seriously, though, you treat any game type that isn't your preferred game type as though it was a waste of the medium
Not completely. What's a waste of the medium is:
1. Games that have low interactivity (self explanatory).
2. Games that repeat what previous games have done (repetition decreases entertainment value).
I enjoy a variety of different genres actually (with a preference towards platformers and other action/adventure games). I've played platformers, action/adventure games, RPGs, racing games, shooters, puzzle games, dudebro games, F2P games, just about any genre you can think of, and I can name at least 1 or 2 games in each category that I actually like. I do not have an inherent bias for or against a particular genre. My lack of interest in 2D platformers is solely because the game mechanics don't change, nothing more.
when from what you've been telling us, it really sounds like you're the one that could get just as much out of another form of entertainment.
Understanding how a game is played before playing it doesn't make video games a pointless medium. The medium is more fun, as you said, when you have the freedom to interact with it in your own way. But if the entire idea of a particular game is boring and predictable, interacting with it probably isn't going to help since you already know exactly how you're going to interact with it, the fun in figuring things out and experiencing new things for the first time isn't there.
Cancelled: Project Guard and Project Giant Robot, at least as we know it
Delayed: Mario Maker (They need a strong November)
Announced: Mother 3 for VC. Or realisticly, Metroid.
What @Webhead said plus Retro's new project (which for reference i'm sure is not Metroid. As much as i'd like it to be) and some Mario sports Wii U both for 2016.
Proud Samus main for ssb4!
Hyped for Capt. Toad, Yoshis woolly world, Mario maker and splatoon in the first half of 2015
Wii U, 3DS and PS4 owner
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@Bolt_Strike The game mechanics in Metroid wouldn't have changed either. Not truly. All it would have been is remapping stuff to the GamePad or retreading of stuff already covered by other games in the genre since Prime 3. That's changing the medium, not truly changing the mechanics. Nothing that Retro would/could have done to push that genre. By your logic, both Metroid and DK are a waste of Retro's talents. Until they do something completely new with a franchise they haven't done before in a different genre, they will be wasting their talents.
@Bolt_Strike The game mechanics in Metroid wouldn't have changed either.
I disagree. Even assuming that Retro developed a FPS Metroid game (who knows) they would surely have changed it substantially. Besides gyroscopic aiming they could have expanded melee options in the game, introducing a melee attack and perhaps a change shot at point blank range. Perhaps the weakest part of Prime, and all Metroid really, was the shooting. The obvious addition is something to change up the combat besides spam A, charge shot, and missile.
@Bolt_Strike The game mechanics in Metroid wouldn't have changed either. Not truly. All it would have been is remapping stuff to the GamePad or retreading of stuff already covered by other games in the genre since Prime 3. That's changing the medium, not truly changing the mechanics. Nothing that Retro would/could have done to push that genre. By your logic, both Metroid and DK are a waste of Retro's talents. Until they do something completely new with a franchise they haven't done before in a different genre, they will be wasting their talents.
I wouldn't worry too much about doing something that other games have done. There's not a lot that hasn't been done at this point, especially for a genre that gets as much attention as the shooter genre. As long as they further the series, I don't really care what they do. And there are several areas in which they could add new power ups. Prime 3 brought us Ship powerups, and there's likely more to be done with that. Retro themselves thought of the idea of having the Gamepad control functions on Samus' arm cannon, there's a lot they can do with that. Something I've wanted to see for a while is more Pirate gear, it would be neat to use gear like Energy Scythes, EMP Grenades, maybe even a Jetpack if they can make it work.
Uh no, I love platformers, I grew up with them. What I don't like is stagnant gameplay. And yes, only changing up level design does make them creatively bankrupt. Level design only gets you so far, the game mechanics matter more.
I never said that DK is beneath them. I said that Tropical Freeze is below them because they're capable of making a much more creative DK game. I look forward to seeing them deliver a DK game that can legitimately be considered groundbreaking, but until them they are in fact wasting their talents.
You seem to define mechanics as an itemized list of what every button does, like it's a matter of adding it all up and reading out the sum. It's robotic. What you're missing by watching videos and not actually playing games is what it feels like to control Mario or DK. The mechanics are rock solid.
That aside though what's ruffling feathers is your perspective that level design is meh. It's honestly one of the silliest things I've ever read on opinions in game design philosophy. It's farcical. That and your insistence that Retro is squandering talent by not making the specific game you want them to make. I've used the word ignorant enough times in this thread, so I'll switch gears and call it bitter entitlement.
So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.
@Bolt_Strike Wait, wait, wait, so let me get this straight. So in order to not be a waste of talent, DK has to come out with something that's never been seen before, but you're not worried if Metroid retreads old ground?
@Bolt_Strike Wait, wait, wait, so let me get this straight. So in order to not be a waste of talent, DK has to come out with something that's never been seen before, but you're not worried if Metroid retreads old ground?
Ok, I have been reading this discussion for too long now.
First of all, I don't agree with Bolt_Strike's opinion on most games, I usually think he is too harsh, and exaggerates a lot. That being said, he usually has a point. The way I understand his posts is that he feels the DKC series don't add new stuff, "new" meaning new to the series. He has clearly stated that he doesn't necessarily need something that revolutionize the gaming industry, but something which can change the particular franchise. When it comes to platformers he seems more critical than with shooters, and I kinda get him. I am kinda conservative when it comes to gaming, and actually prefer the Mario games that feel like Mario games. I had a hard time accepting Super Mario Galaxy, because it didn't feel like Mario gameplay to me, but the game grew on me. I digress. My point is, he seems to think platforming games have grown stale. I agree with him. I happen to enjoy it nonetheless, but I agree.
@Bolt_Strike please tell me if I'm totally of track here.
You seem to define mechanics as an itemized list of what every button does, like it's a matter of adding it all up and reading out the sum. It's robotic. What you're missing by watching videos and not actually playing games is what it feels like to control Mario or DK. The mechanics are rock solid.
I never really notice feel unless it's phenomenally bad to the point of being unplayable or otherwise interfering with the gameplay. As long as I can get from A to B I couldn't care less how something "feels", I'm too engrossed in the task at hand to care.
That aside though what's ruffling feathers is your perspective that level design is meh. It's honestly one of the silliest things I've ever read on opinions in game design philosophy. It's farcical.
If what you're getting from my opinions is that level design is meh, then you're seriously misinterpreting what I'm saying. Level design is important, but partially because of how it demonstrates the gameplay, and gameplay overall is more important.
That and your insistence that Retro is squandering talent by not making the specific game you want them to make. I've used the word ignorant enough times in this thread, so I'll switch gears and call it bitter entitlement.
Again, you miss the point. It's not about wanting a specific game, it's about wanting a particular design philosophy. I want to see them approach whatever game they make with new ideas that
@Bolt_Strike Wait, wait, wait, so let me get this straight. So in order to not be a waste of talent, DK has to come out with something that's never been seen before, but you're not worried if Metroid retreads old ground?
That's not retreading old grounds though, if they're coming up with a new powerup in an existing area (like the Grapple Lasso and Hyper Grapple were, they were based on the Grapple Beam but they did completely new things), that's not something that's been seen before.
@AlliMeadow Yes, thank you. Finally someone gets it.
Gonna be interesting to see how they deal with both the WiiU & 3DS coming to a near crawl in terms of upcoming stuff. Everyone touts XCX, dudes give it a rest, it's one game.
Gonna be interesting to see how they deal with both the WiiU & 3DS coming to a near crawl in terms of upcoming stuff. Everyone touts XCX, dudes give it a rest, it's one game.
XCX, Star Fox, Mario Maker, Yoshi's Woolly World, Devil's Third, the distant figures of SMTxFE and Zelda, and Smash DLC to spare. I don't think the Wii U is quite slowing to a crawl, yet. The 3DS, however, appears to only have Fire Emblem if coming and we have no idea when that'll even be here.
My hope is that the forthcoming Rhythm Heaven for the 3DS in Japan comes West. Granted, I'll still import the Japanese version, but I think it would be a nice addition. Hoping there's something sports-related announced, too. That's a massive hole in the lineup at present.
Animal Crossing in real life would be really pleasant. And exceptionally weird. Why is there a shark in your pocket? Why did you mail me a sofa?
I blog about video game stuff at http://www.shinynewcartridge.com. It might even be worth reading.
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