Topic: Your Guess as to this year's surprise E3 Wii U Announcement(s)

Have you forgotten the honor?

Have you forgotten the glory?

Have you forgotten... the Waaa?

I actually prefer the likes of Mario Strikers to something like Fifa. If I wanted realistic football I'd just watch a football match on TV or go outside and play it myself. The thing I like about Mario Strikers is that it's chaotic and doesn't play like a normal football game.

As to any surprise announcements: I'm not sure if there will be any; seeing as they intend to focus on this year's releases. Maybe a HD remake of a game, but that's it. I honestly hope they kinda stop focusing so much on Amiibos and instead focus more on games again.

Here we go, again! Dude. I get that you don't care about the monkeys, but as someone who actually PLAYED the game, you're wrong. You're so wrong, it's honestly starting to feel like you just hate the game because it wasn't Metroid. And when I point out that the same can be said of the Prime series you love so much, you just shove the point aside saying it's not the same thing when it totally is. I'll say as I've said time and time again, we may be getting Metroid for Wii U in the next year. We may not. It may be in development by Retro, but there's no reason to believe it will be (and @Operative's reasoning is a clear Gambler's Fallacy).

AND PERSONALLY, I /do/ care if Retro becomes the Metroid Company because there's nothing worse for creativity than being expected to keep doing one thing. That's why they ended Prime, in the first place! If anything, going back to Metroid now would defeat the purpose. People will just keep expecting them to make Metroid and they'll keep being disappointed when they don't. Don't believe me? Just look at the reactions to Tropical Freeze! I get that Prime was great. I get that fans want to be sure the next game will be great, too, especially after Other M, but writing off an amazing Platformer just because it wasn't what you convinced yourself they were making is more destructive to Retro than anything else.

Now let me be clear. I don't care if Retro makes another Metroid, I'm simply telling you why they may not want to. I would be ecstatic if they made a 3D Donkey Kong, but if they don't, it's whatever. I'll likely enjoy whatever they roll out with all the same, but I'm just sick and tired of people assuming it's gonna be Metroid because that's what killed the hype for Tropical Freeze which was an amazing game, and I'm not the only one who thinks so.

Can't Nintendo just make 3D Mario's and 2D Donkey Kong's and focus the rest of their resources on other, less incestuously overlapping games? I mean really, how many 2D platformers do we need? There's already, like, 6 between on current gen Nintendo platforms, and that's not even counting Rayman, Super Luigi U, and DKR 3D.

Nintendo can do whatever Nintendo wants to do. That was kinda my point. I'm not sitting here going "it'd better be a 3D DK game," I'm just getting really annoyed by everyone trying to pigeonhole Retro into just doing more Metroid.

Yes, I say that the 2D platformer itch has been adequately scratched and can be put to rest until the next console. But I agree with UGX on principle that Retro deserves more than to be The Metroid Company. We're talking about one of the most talented studios in the world, and fans won't let them make the games they want.

Via NeoGaf. Big explicit language warning on that link. It's 33 pages of F-bombs because Retro had the audacity to not make Metroid. That attitude is disgraceful and toxic to the industry.

Retro deserves to make whatever they want. Maybe that's Metroid. But unless they're working on a 50 million dollar Mushroom Kingdom eroge, not even Kyoto should be vetoing whatever they want to do.

I don't want to pigeonhole Retro. Many of the Prime team have left and they're basically 'The Donkey Kong Company' by now. I think the bigger crying shame is that Nintendo let all of that talent escape and let quality Metroid games die (why people are really upset at Retro.)

Now they have to build up another studio and all of that experience all over again, even just to get to how talented the team was when making Prime 1, let alone an evolution of the series. I just want to explore more of the Prime world, as that was one of the most interesting virtual worlds I've even entered.

NeoGaf: Making my points more apparent than I ever could.

The most surprising would be the Earthbound Collection that was obviously a fake rumor a few months back.

As for more likely surprises, probably F-Zero since Miyamoto has mentioned it, but he said he wanted the best control interface or something along those lines. That's odd comment, maybe it was taken out of context or poorly translated or something. I expect another F-Zero in the future, but I'd be surprised for it to be announced at E3 2015.

I wouldn't say a new Metroid would be all that surprising. Especially since Nintendo developers mentioned it during the roundtable thing last E3 and I have a feeling that Retro or Next Level is working on it whether it Wii U and/or 3DS. Just my opinion though, a new Metroid announcement would be fantastic but wouldn't surprise me. On the topic of announcements that wouldn't surprise me, is a new IP. I mean, we got two new IP announcement at E3 2014(S.T.E.A.M. and Splatoon).

This is what annoys me so much about Nintendo; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arika#Nintendo-published_Games_a...

Just read that list!

2007 Endless Ocean
2010 Endless Ocean 2
Since then Not-an-expletiving-thing!

Nintendo just has their studios stop making great series, just like Retro and Metroid Prime, just like Nintendo proper and 2D Metroid games, and just like Intelligent Systems running Paper Mario into the ground and hopping out of the burning wreckage.

I mean... why? What reason is there to it? Is Arika working on some sort of secret project on a 5+ year development cycle? Or did Nintendo just stop trying and the studio went off to make mobile games, as is more likely. Exasperated noise.

How exactly does making two Donkey Kong games make them "The Donkey Kong Company?" Are you implying making three Metroids wasn't just as bad? This is what I don't get. People bash on their DK games for there being "too many" but Metroid gets a free pass because it's... Metroid? Or an FPS? Or... what? How about Retro makes neither and comes up with something else that's new and beautiful and fun to explore? Because that's the one consistent thing about Retro games: they're always fun to explore. They always look amazing. Why lock them down into doing Metroid or even DK? Why not let the pick up whatever IP they want to use, or better yet, make something unique to them?

Or MAYBE Nintendo DOESN'T force their devs to make the games they want their devs to make because MAYBE Nintendo actually RESPECTS the artistic freedom of their game developers? Retro stopped Prime of their own accord. Not because Nintendo made them do it. Retro ended Prime themselves, not Nintendo. Why has there been no 2D Metroid since Fusion? No one has stepped up to make it. Probably the same for Paper Mario. Maybe the team that originally made them got sick of the IP and moved on to something new.

It's a Japanese video game company. Management problems and hubris are pretty much a defining trait.

It has nothing to do with them not making Metroid. They can make Metroid, they can make DK, they can make F-Zero for all I care. If this has anything to do with game bias it's because 2D platformers have been going nowhere for the past 5 years and the last thing the Wii U needed at that point in its life was another rehashy platformer to add to the pile. Whereas Metroid would've used the Gamepad better and has much more potential for new abilities that actually effect the gameplay. So the decision to choose DK over Metroid, especially under the reasoning they stated which was that they had more to do with it, is completely and utterly foolish.

Sticking with the same IP =/= doing the same thing. When you make another DK game and do pretty much nothing with it, you're not really flexing your creative muscles.

Also, going back to Metroid is not doing the same thing anyway because they've already done DK to break up the tedium. And it's not like they couldn't do something else after anyway. Their fears of being labelled the Metroid Company are completely unfounded, they've already proven they're not a one trick pony.

@Haru17 What's really bothering about the Nintendo of today is that there's been a lot of focus on nostalgia fueled rehashes, it's all too safe. It was refreshing the first time, but after loads of Classic style Mario games that all play similarly and Tropical Freeze doing little more than playing catch up with the Classic trilogy, it's gotten very tiring to see them come back to the same IPs and recycle the same gameplay styles. Again, the platformers are most guilty of this, they don't really add anything except gimmicks, and Nintendo has largely been ignoring 3D (except for 3D Land/3D World, which is basically just NSMB in 3D and fails to offer any significant difference in gameplay), which has spawned some of the most innovative games in the genre. The lack of collectathon games and Metroid is palpable, Nintendo's lineup feels significantly less diverse without them.

You have precisely no idea what the hell you're talking about.

Probably the same for Paper Mario. Maybe the team that originally made them got sick of the IP and moved on to something new.

Miyamoto told the Intelligent Systems devs to not write a story for Paper Mario: Sticker Star and to only use characters from Super Mario World. What 'artistic freedom' is left, then? A husk, nothing but a husk of what was.

And here's the thing, even if we're to assume that everyone at Intelligent Systems suddenly uprooted their entire game design philosophy, not bloody likely (what do you think the writers would think about that?), then the still shouldn't have called what they made 'Paper Mario.' Compared to the abundant amount of detail and thought that was poured into the previous ones 'Plastic Mario' seems more appropriate.

Did you just completely ignore that NeoGaf thread CaviarMeths posted? They totally were labeled the Metroid Company. Those fears weren't unfounded, and claiming that DKCR was just to break up the tedium only really goes to further prove my point. "Oh, they refreshed, so now they can go back to doing Metroid."

And for the twentieth-or-so time, TF wasn't "rehashy." It felt nothing like previous games in or out of the series. Sure, the core mechanics didn't change, but at the end of the day, making another FPS Metroid wouldn't change the core mechanics, either. Those are the most familiar part of any game. If there's anything you DON'T want to change? That's it.

Again, referring to CaviarMeths old arguments, did you ever wonder how we knew you hadn't played TF, despite you not telling us you hadn't? It's because you weren't describing TF with anything that you said. Your accusations are wrong, as many of us were aware, and this tipped us off to the fact you hadn't even played the game.

Let me ask you: Would you trust a review if the first words the reviewer said were "I haven't played this game, but I did see some gameplay and..." Because I wouldn't. Dude clearly has no idea what the game is like, as he's never played it. Same as you are making a ton of incorrect assumptions about a game you didn't actually play.

I don't see a lot of them saying they want Retro to only make Metroid. A lot of them are disappointed that they made DK over Metroid, but that doesn't mean they want Retro to only make Metroid.

The core mechanics don't need to change. But something in the mechanics does. Metroid and the collectathon Mario games (64 vs. Sunshine vs. Galaxy) are good examples. Each game in their collective series sticks with the same core formula, but each new iteration puts some kind of twist on the gameplay. Sunshine has FLUDD which adds to the platforming and gives Mario a completely new way to interact with the level. Galaxy has antigravity which allows for new types of level design. Prime 2 had a light/dark world system and new and retooled powerups that gave Samus new abilities. Prime 3 had Hypermode and even more new powerups, a few in completely new categories of abilities (Hypermode, Ship abilities, Grapple abilites). This is how you make a sequel fun. Neither NSMB nor the recent 3D Mario games nor Retro's DK games really do this, they keep the gameplay more or less the same the entire game. They don't try to give the characters new abilities or introduce some kind of game changing twist. And no, I don't need to play the games to know that these kinds of things aren't happening, it's clear as day that they aren't and you can easily watch the gameplay and see the characters doing the same things they've been doing for the past 50 games to know that their gameplay is going nowhere. It's less judging games that I haven't played and more that the games don't give me a reason to even care about them in the first place. They're failing at a very basic level to draw people in. Your analogy doesn't work because I'm not some reviewer trying to assess the value of the game, I'm a gamer looking for a standout entertainment experience among an ocean of games that I could potentially spend my time and money on, so if the game doesn't grab my attention, why should I even bother?

EDIT: Also, how would reviews even be useful if people had to actually play a game to form some sort of opinion on them? By your logic the only way you could even decide whether or not it's worth spending money on the game is to spend money on the game.

And Tropical Freeze has two completely different Kongs that act in completely different ways to the Kong that was previously in the game and force you to handle the game in completely different ways, not to mention can make or break a speed run entirely. You're so focused on thematic stuff that you don't look at what it actually changes, which in a number of your examples is effectively nothing. Gameplay-wise a door is still a door, even if that door leads to another dimension and any beam you shoot is still effectively a beam. It just works on different enemies. But when you have Dixie, you tend to be more reckless because you can generally afford to be. When you have Diddy, you tend to loosen up a bit because now you can. When you have Cranky, you're less worried about what's below you, because that cane is gonna save your rump, and then when you get into speed running (which as I pointed out, the game full well encourages), the Kong you take into a level with you makes a very, VERY big difference. Speed running has never been so stream lined. Most players are bound to try it at least once out of curiosity, if nothing else. The game even lets you watch other people's runs so you can get better yourself, rather than just raging at how much better everyone else seems to be. I learned tons of tricks I never would've learned without that system.

But as long as you just keep seeing a monkey and some pits with a barrel at the end, we may as well just look at Metroid as a robot or suit with colored beams, colored enemies, and colored doors.

^I don't know why you're complaining about no new abilities popping up as all the games you've mentioned have new abilities in the new version also SM3DW does go into new territory of being a multiplayer 3D Mario game (really the solo player mode is tacked on) with people's complaints about it not being a collectathon being a different issue and whilst NSMB is tired and formulaic they have added new things like the Coin Rush and Boost mode as well as.

The problem is that moving in a slightly different direction isn't "acting in completely different ways", making Diddy and Dixie nearly redundant. They both fly, that's a major similarity between them. Cranky would be a good addition if it weren't for the fact that the character abilities are utilized so infrequently aside from abusing their mechanics for speed runs, and that's not a real gameplay change since it needs to affect the entire gameplay (in other words, if the average gamer doesn't need to utilize it to complete an in game task, it doesn't really affect the gameplay). Also, changes in feel are not changes in gameplay, being "more reckless" or "not worrying about what's below you" are pretty vague effects that don't have any practical effect on the gameplay. A reckless jump and a careful jump are still a jump either way, the action itself is no different between the two. And that's the thing, in Metroid even though the effect of your actions basically amounts to clearing an obstacle designed to be cleared with a certain item, the action of clearing that obstacle is different between the two. Swinging across a ledge with the Grapple Beam is a different action than riding across it with the Spider Ball, even if in both you're just crossing a gap. Having new actions makes a world of difference in the gameplay, and that's what makes the 2D platformers rehashes and Metroid not.

Because these changes mainly amount to gimmicks and extra modes. They're not making an attempt to change the actual gameplay, they're just tacking things onto it that have little effect. The powerups are probably the closest thing to an actual gameplay change, but they fall into the "gimmick" category because their abilities are rarely utilized in the actual level (and usually for shortcuts and collectibles, no less). There's no real game wide change that makes them stand out.

And big freaking whoop for 3D World being the first 3D co-op game, it's no different than the 2D games having co-op.