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Topic: Xenoblade Chronicles X - OT

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crimsoncavalier

Tops wrote:

@crimsoncavalier Social psychology says otherwise. Science has a lot to say about emotions and behaviour.

edit: just saw your post. Yes, emotions can be measured. They're measured by physical arousal to a stimulus. Increased/decreased heart rate, breathing and other signs point to what a person is experiencing and feeling.

I knew someone would bring that up, and I'm glad you did, because I've made this argument before.

No, that is not measuring emotion. You are measuring a response to emotion. Emotion, in and of itself, cannot be measured. "Anger" raises blood pressure, increases respirations, releases hormones in the body. That we can measure. We know there is a cause, and we can measure the results, but we can't measure the cause.

On a scale from one to ten, with 10 being the most angry you've ever been, you and I would have extremely different scales. Not only what makes you angry differs from person to person, but how angry something makes you differs from person to person.

If someone skips me in line, I could become furious. And I could seethe internally until I got home and then I could kick my dog. And that's how I deal with anger, and if I were to "quantify" it, it would be a 10 on my 1-10 scale.

If someone skips you in line, you could not care at all. Being skipped does not make you angry. It could be a 1 in your 1-10 scale.

If someone skipped Dezzy in line, he could be so angry that he kills them.

So not only did the action elicit different reactions (that we cannot predict nor measure) but the way in which we handle the emotion is also different (and we also cannot measure nor predict that).

crimsoncavalier

Nintendo Network ID: CrimsonCavalier

crimsoncavalier

Tops wrote:

crimsoncavalier wrote:

Science plays a role in behavior and emotion, but that doesn't make behavior and emotion scientific. I think that's an important distinction to make.

I think anything science takes an interest in can be considered scientific, especially since people have come a long way in understanding various behaviours and emotions people experience and deal with and understanding why they act the way they do in certain situations.

In that case, we differ intrinsically on what science is. I feel the words science and scientific are thrown around too much and too often.

I mean, to use an extreme example, in putting a shelf together, science is involved. There is physics, engineering, geometry, trigonometry ... all kinds of things involved, all of which could be considered scientific. But is a shelf science? Science plays a part, but would you really classify it as science? Or would you say that "some science played a role in building this book shelf" ?

In the same way, science is involved and does play a role, in psychology (especially in cognition, memory, perception and sensation), and behavior/emotion. But that does not mean that behavior and emotion are themselves science.

But, again, that's just my interpretation of it. As I said, I think psychology is great, I love it and respect it. I think everyone should have to study it. Should be a required course. But anyways.

crimsoncavalier

Nintendo Network ID: CrimsonCavalier

Dezzy

crimsoncavalier wrote:

Way off topic, but no. We try to quantify emotion and human behavior, but by its very nature, it is unquantifiable. You can't measure "anger" or "joy" or "lust". Every single event in an individual's life will affect the way that person behaves and 100 people will have 100 different reactions to the same event.

By its very nature, human behavior and emotions are unscientific, because, how can we measure them?

Listen, I know we try to be as true to science as we can, as for a long time psychology has suffered from little-man syndrome, and so we have tried to appear as scientific as physics or geology or whatever other "hard" science you want to reference, but we can't. We study something that, by its very nature, can't be measured.

And that's fine. I don't mean to say our research should not be taken seriously or that psychology is hokum. I'm just saying that, if you really look at it, human behavior and emotion are not scientific, nor do they follow set rules that always apply.

Well I'm not a psychologist but I read enough of the field to know that a lot of people would disagree with this. One type of measurement would be neural-correlates with various emotions as is typical in neuroscience. The way you're describing it makes it sound like that would be in principle impossible (100 different people having 100 different responses), which it clearly isn't. The difference between those responses isn't so large that it negates categorisation.
Another way emotions can be studied in a scientific way is from the evo-psych approach. See Paul Ekman's work and also Darwin's predictions along these lines in Expressions Of The Emotions. If you can make falsifiable predictions, that counts as science in my book.

Edited on by Dezzy

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

CaviarMeths

What the hell happened to this thread in the 2 days I was gone...

So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.

crimsoncavalier

Dezzy wrote:

crimsoncavalier wrote:

Way off topic, but no. We try to quantify emotion and human behavior, but by its very nature, it is unquantifiable. You can't measure "anger" or "joy" or "lust". Every single event in an individual's life will affect the way that person behaves and 100 people will have 100 different reactions to the same event.

By its very nature, human behavior and emotions are unscientific, because, how can we measure them?

Listen, I know we try to be as true to science as we can, as for a long time psychology has suffered from little-man syndrome, and so we have tried to appear as scientific as physics or geology or whatever other "hard" science you want to reference, but we can't. We study something that, by its very nature, can't be measured.

And that's fine. I don't mean to say our research should not be taken seriously or that psychology is hokum. I'm just saying that, if you really look at it, human behavior and emotion are not scientific, nor do they follow set rules that always apply.

Well I'm not a psychologist but I read enough of the field to know that a lot of people would disagree with this. One type of measurement would be neural-correlates with various emotions as is typical in neuroscience. The way you're describing it makes it sound like that would be in principle impossible (100 different people having 100 different responses), which it clearly isn't. The difference between those responses isn't so large that it negates categorisation.
Another way emotions can be studied in a scientific way is from the evo-psych approach. See Paul Ekman's work and also Darwin's predictions along these lines in Expressions Of The Emotions. If you can make falsifiable predictions, that counts as science in my book.

Yeah, I know I'm in the minority, and I'm ok with it.

The way I see it, even if psychology is not science, it doesn't (or shouldn't) lessen the power or importance of the field of study. However ... throughout its history, psychology has been looked at as a "soft science". For many, many years. Eventually, in order to be taken more seriously by the rest of the scientific community, psychology adapted many of the jargon and processes of the other sciences. In order to be taken more seriously. And today, we in the field use statistics, technical jargon, charts and graphs and all kinds of "typical" tools of the scientific trade.

We have definitely come a long way, and using neurology, anatomy, biology and others, we can definitely bring the realm of psychology closer to a true science. And like I said, there are definite aspects of it that are definitely scientific, and at the very least, science plays a role in almost all aspects of psychology. But the specific studies of human behavior and emotion, in my personal opinion, do not fall into the category of hard science.

And I did not mean to be disingenuous, but I'm not a psychologist in the sense of actively practicing psychology. My bachelor's degree is in psychology, but I'm actually going into law.

crimsoncavalier

Nintendo Network ID: CrimsonCavalier

nacho_chicken

So, um, guys? How about that Xenoblade X? Looks awesome so far.

Jack of all trades, master of some

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Dezzy

nacho_chicken wrote:

So, um, guys? How about that Xenoblade X? Looks awesome so far.

Haha I'm still waiting for the rationalisation as to why characters can change direction in mid-air.

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

JoyBoy

nacho_chicken wrote:

So, um, guys? How about that Xenoblade X? Looks awesome so far.

I don't know... I'm quite disappointed by the lack of realism...

SW-7849-9887-2074

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crimsoncavalier

Dezzy wrote:

nacho_chicken wrote:

So, um, guys? How about that Xenoblade X? Looks awesome so far.

Haha I'm still waiting for the rationalisation as to why characters can change direction in mid-air.

Or how they can fall for what seems to be at least 1000s of meters into water and survive? That was always one of my favorite activities. Just jumping from the highest point I could find into water.

crimsoncavalier

Nintendo Network ID: CrimsonCavalier

Blast

nacho_chicken wrote:

So, um, guys? How about that Xenoblade X? Looks awesome so far.

Most anticipated game!

I own a Wii U and 3DS. I also own a PS4!

Master of the Hype Train

3DS Friend Code: 2921-9690-6053 | Nintendo Network ID: Mediking9

CaviarMeths

Blast wrote:

nacho_chicken wrote:

So, um, guys? How about that Xenoblade X? Looks awesome so far.

Most anticipated game!

No don't! That's how the argument started in the first place!

So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.

shingi_70

Its crazy how close this game is and how its actually going to make 2015. Final Fantasy XV at this point probably won't be out till next year.

WAT!

Hey check out my awesome new youtube channel shingi70 where I update weekly on the latest gaming and comic news form a level headed perspective.

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Dezzy

shingi_70 wrote:

Its crazy how close this game is and how its actually going to make 2015. Final Fantasy XV at this point probably won't be out till next year.

FF15 is looking very promising though. Which seems like a risky thing to think with that series.

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

Blast

Dezzy wrote:

shingi_70 wrote:

Its crazy how close this game is and how its actually going to make 2015. Final Fantasy XV at this point probably won't be out till next year.

FF15 is looking very promising though. Which seems like a risky thing to think with that series.

I said before how powerful the impact the FF XV demo is having on people. People are really warming up to FF XV. Even people who said it didn't have a chance to be good is now looking at FF XV with hopes. I'm even impressed by the FF XV demo and I was the guy who said it was copying off of Xenoblade Chronicles X. FF XV truly is doing its own thing.
Man, I keep saying how XCX could really benefit from a demo on Eshop. Show a bunch of cool stuff at E3 about XCX then drop the bomb that a demo is ready to be played. Customize your avatar and have the first 30 minutes to an hour of XCX.

I own a Wii U and 3DS. I also own a PS4!

Master of the Hype Train

3DS Friend Code: 2921-9690-6053 | Nintendo Network ID: Mediking9

Dezzy

Blast wrote:

I said before how powerful the impact the FF XV demo is having on people. People are really warming up to FF XV. Even people who said it didn't have a chance to be good is now looking at FF XV with hopes. I'm even impressed by the FF XV demo and I was the guy who said it was copying off of Xenoblade Chronicles X. FF XV truly is doing its own thing.
Man, I keep saying how XCX could really benefit from a demo on Eshop. Show a bunch of cool stuff at E3 about XCX then drop the bomb that a demo is ready to be played. Customize your avatar and have the first 30 minutes to an hour of XCX.

I've only watched the demo but I was very impressed. The thing that really stands out is that it seems like they've finally remembered how to create a game with a distinct character to it. The characters fit together and you feel invested in the world.
That's something that had been missing for so long. Not since FF10 imo. Although 12 was good in slightly different ways.

I disagree on the demo though. First of all, they almost definitely won't because it'd be an insanely big file size. But secondly, I think we can see enough about it from the videos. And from knowing about the sequel.

It's dangerous to go alone! Stay at home.

Blast

Dezzy wrote:

Blast wrote:

I said before how powerful the impact the FF XV demo is having on people. People are really warming up to FF XV. Even people who said it didn't have a chance to be good is now looking at FF XV with hopes. I'm even impressed by the FF XV demo and I was the guy who said it was copying off of Xenoblade Chronicles X. FF XV truly is doing its own thing.
Man, I keep saying how XCX could really benefit from a demo on Eshop. Show a bunch of cool stuff at E3 about XCX then drop the bomb that a demo is ready to be played. Customize your avatar and have the first 30 minutes to an hour of XCX.

I've only watched the demo but I was very impressed. The thing that really stands out is that it seems like they've finally remembered how to create a game with a distinct character to it. The characters fit together and you feel invested in the world.
That's something that had been missing for so long. Not since FF10 imo. Although 12 was good in slightly different ways.

I disagree on the demo though. First of all, they almost definitely won't because it'd be an insanely big file size. But secondly, I think we can see enough about it from the videos. And from knowing about the sequel.

I've only seen the FF XV demo and I was impressed just like you. Hahaha. Man, Square Enix really has a shot to put out something amazing here. And... I wanna make my XCX avatar so badly....

I own a Wii U and 3DS. I also own a PS4!

Master of the Hype Train

3DS Friend Code: 2921-9690-6053 | Nintendo Network ID: Mediking9

crimsoncavalier

Dezzy wrote:

shingi_70 wrote:

Its crazy how close this game is and how its actually going to make 2015. Final Fantasy XV at this point probably won't be out till next year.

FF15 is looking very promising though. Which seems like a risky thing to think with that series.

I'm in the same boat. Not the promising, but the risky. IMO, FF has not been good since Sakaguchi left. What was the last FF he did, X? I don't remember ... It seems like an eternity ago. Every FF since he left has been underwhelming and sometimes downright awful. Not a fan.

Although, if Bravely Default is anything to go by, there may be hope for FF/SquareEnix yet.

crimsoncavalier

Nintendo Network ID: CrimsonCavalier

shingi_70

crimsoncavalier wrote:

Dezzy wrote:

shingi_70 wrote:

Its crazy how close this game is and how its actually going to make 2015. Final Fantasy XV at this point probably won't be out till next year.

FF15 is looking very promising though. Which seems like a risky thing to think with that series.

I'm in the same boat. Not the promising, but the risky. IMO, FF has not been good since Sakaguchi left. What was the last FF he did, X? I don't remember ... It seems like an eternity ago. Every FF since he left has been underwhelming and sometimes downright awful. Not a fan.

Although, if Bravely Default is anything to go by, there may be hope for FF/SquareEnix yet.

I wouldn't go that far myself. I think 11,12, and 14 reborn are all good games. I should be playing the XV demo this weekend myself. I need to get around to playing Bravery Default before the sequel hits the states next year.

WAT!

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Blast

Looking at FF XV and other JRPGS kinda makes me wish Cross had his/her own personality again. I mean, I still totally understand the benefits to what Monolith is doing with Cross which is basically what DBZ Xenoverse in its own story mode... The gamer IS the main character. But lemme tell ya... When you actually look forward to cutscenes in a JRPG because of how much you're interested in the characters then you know you have something really special. Cross is moving in cutscenes but dang... The fact that he/she doesn't say a dang word in a cutscene is still somewhat dumb to me. But its weird because Cross obviously says stuff when he/she's fighting but doesn't speak in cutscenes? That doesn't make sense...

I own a Wii U and 3DS. I also own a PS4!

Master of the Hype Train

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shingi_70

Eh I don't mind Cross being an insert for the player to be honest, if they were to give cross his own personality than they'd have to go the route of giving you dialog choices to make him your own. It also makes the multiplayer have a bigger impact on your single player component instead of being separate like Mass Effect and Dragon Ages.

I'm hoping we get some announcements at E3 but it looks like Xenoblade, Witcher 3, Bloodborne, and Fable Legends will be the four big RPGS of the year barring pushing out GG new IP or FFXV making it this year.

WAT!

Hey check out my awesome new youtube channel shingi70 where I update weekly on the latest gaming and comic news form a level headed perspective.

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