Wii U Forum

Topic: Wireless Gamepad input for Wii mode impossible? How about a Gamepad->Wiimote connector?

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Discostew

1. Posted:

Honestly, I find it sad that people think that adding Gamepad input to Wii mode wirelessly is as simple as streaming Wii mode to the Gamepad. They couldn't be more wrong. The reason behind this is that the management for streaming to the Gamepad was already set back when the Wii U was launched. Wii mode is incapable of upscaling 480p to 1080p. Upscaling is done by the Wii U side by grabbing the output and upscaling it to be sent to the TV (kinda like how the 3DS grabs the DS output and can upscale it). All Nintendo needed to do was allow the system to redirect the captured output.

Input, on the other hand, is a much different beast that would have to be implemented by scratch because nothing previously has dealt with Wii mode input outside of what it already supports. The Gamepad is purely WiFi, both streaming in and sending out button presses. The Wiimotes are Bluetooth. The WiFi module that deals with the Gamepad is separate from the module that handles network handling, and this WiFi module is external of Wii mode, preventing it from being recognized by the Wii mode completely. Nintendo would have to reconfigure the Wii mode to accept something it was not meant to access just to make a connection.

So, as mentioned in the title, they could try an alternative. Connect the Gamepad from the port on the bottom to a Wiimote, and have it act like a Classic Controller. All that a regular Classic Controller does is sends the input through the Wiimote, and the Wiimote transmits the input to the Wii (and in this case, a Wii U in Wii mode). It would just be a matter of them manufacturing the cable, and then having to send out an additional Wii U update to allow the Gamepad to send input in this manner.

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adamkop

2. Posted:

My first post on this forum so hello everyone! (part time lurker)
I was thinking this would be another thread about whining how the gamepad isn't the controller, so it's a nice change. I think the problem with adding additional functions in Wii mode is a matter of making a small program that will handle the extra stuff such as streaming to the pad and using its sensor as the real one. I'm pretty sure that emulating button presses on the gamepad is possible, but it wouldn't work really well as a classic controller or GC pad, because it doesn't have analog triggers. Nintendo loves being perfect with things they do so it must be a pretty big obstacle to them. If such a feature got implemented, it would either:
a) cause problems in games with analog triggers input
b) be limited to games that don't use those triggers in such manner
Either way, I'm pretty sure it will be supported by the VC pretty soon and then Nintendo will make it optional, with half-press being one shoulder button and full-press being the one behind it.

adamkop

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skywake

3. Posted:

Lets look at the facts as they are. For a start I remember rants like this about displaying Wii content on the Gamepad and before that about being able to transfer Wii VC purchases. All previous such rants have proven to be wrong, what makes this one so different?

Secondly consider how the Wii U responds to you touching GamePad inputs while in Wii Mode. The fact that it responds at all suggests that it is capable of reading that input during WiiMode. If they can redirect the video output to the GamePad then there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to redirect the GamePad input to a dummy Classic Controller.

Lastly there's the fact that they basically built the Wii U around the idea of backwards compatibility. The GamePad has the IR sensors on the top, WiiMotes work with the console out of the box, they put the same Wii storage system inside it, they put the same buttons as the CC on the GamePad and they built the GamePad with a screen resolution that matched the Wii's output. Given all that, co-incidental or not, I think it's fair to say that backwards compatibility was something they worked hard on. If they were that careful about all of that why would they build it so GamePad input was impossible?

Edited on by theblackdragon

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SCAR392

4. Posted:

There's always so much speculation... Never the less, it seems like Nintendo has been working on this for quite a while. I'm not really sure how long it would take to program an OS, or the code they're using.

GamePad CC controller support seems like it will happen. It will probably just default as player 1, and if you are using a CC(or possibly pro controller) on your Wii remote for 2-4 players to play to, the player 1 Wii remote's CC will take priority over the GamePad. Kind of like how the GamePad and Pro controller "fight" over who's controlling player one on the Wii U VC until you assign the players, but in this case, obviously only one player would most likely be playing on the GamePad by themselves.

Edited on by SCAR392

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Discostew

5. Posted:

@Atariboy @skywake Pro controller is understandable because it operates on Bluetooth. Modifying that driver would allow that and is not a real problem because that is the Bluetooth module's main purpose. The Gamepad is a completely different story. I can accept that homebrewers might have been able to send input from the Gamepad to the WiFi module that is active for Wii mode usage, but there is no way that WiFi module can transmit the data for video streaming to the Gamepad, nor will Nintendo take the approach of utilizing both WiFi modules to get it working that way because that would interfere with how regular games use the WiFi. As for the Wii U responding to the Gamepad while in Wii mode, that doesn't mean the vWii is making the response. If it's anything like the 3DS, it would likely be the background processes of the Wii U OS handling that (or even the Gamepad itself). The main OS controls the virtualization, not the other way around because the virtualized environment has no concept of it.

Edited on by Discostew

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skywake

6. Posted:

If they can intercept the video signal and channel it to the GamePad then they can intercept the GamePad output and channel it to a virtual controller. The "virtual Wii" doesn't need to know what the GamePad is for it to work. Just like a copy of Windows 95 running on VMWare doesn't need to know that it's connected to the internet via a USB WiFi dongle.

The GamePad has the same functionality as a Classic Controller or Gamecube controller. You've given no convincing reason why it can't behave like one in WiiMode. At least nothing more convincing than the arguments people in this forum had about the Wii U never being able to push Wii games to the GamePad screen..... and those people were proven wrong yesterday.

Edited on by skywake

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adamkop

7. Posted:

skywake wrote:

If they can intercept the video signal and channel it to the GamePad then they can intercept the GamePad output and channel it to a virtual controller. The "virtual Wii" doesn't need to know what the GamePad is for it to work. Just like a copy of Windows 95 running on VMWare doesn't need to know that it's connected to the internet via a USB WiFi dongle.

The GamePad has the same functionality as a Classic Controller or Gamecube controller. You've given no convincing reason why it can't behave like one in WiiMode. At least nothing more convincing than the arguments people in this forum had about the Wii U never being able to push Wii games to the GamePad screen..... and those people were proven wrong yesterday.

I think the main reason for Nintendo to not implement that functionality yet is the fact that the pad has only digital triggers. A lot of games used them and it would be quite troublesome for some games (for example Rogue Squadron games used triggers for speed - if you pressed R button to the end while in an X-Wing, you closed the S-foils and couldn't shoot lasers).
I'm pretty sure Nintendo is working on a solution that will enable gamepad functionality in VC and games that can be played via CC (again, that one has analog triggers so problem emerges again).

adamkop

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theblackdragon

8. Posted:

Hey guys, I'm going to ask that the conversation not include references or instructions regarding homebrew and hacking one's console. If that's the conversation you're trying to have here, it does not belong at Nintendo Life. Thanks in advance, everyone!

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Discostew

9. Posted:

What you're suggesting is that Nintendo jerry rig the input software so that it can accept input from an unknown source, aka your "virtual controller", because as it stands right now, vWii can only accept input from two sources. One is the Bluetooth module which handles controllers down to the OS level, and the other is the USB ports, which are on a game-to-game basis.

As said before, it was simple for Nintendo to output to the Gamepad because they utilized a function that existed since the beginning, which was the Wii U OS capturing the Wii mode output. It did this so it could upscale the output and send it out to either component out or HDMI. There is no indication that Wii mode is capable of being modified enough to accept any input outside of what it knows with the hardware it was set to use without compromising its current stability. This isn't "plug-n-play" like Windows, even within a virtual machine. This is "keep Wii mode 100% compatible" with as little jerry rigging as possible.

removed this portion as requested by theblackdragon, as it mentions hac......you get it

Perhaps my title was a bit misleading. I'm not saying it's impossible (it was more of "you think it's impossible? what if they did this way?"), I'm just stating that it's not nearly as easy to implement compared to adding Wii streaming to the Gamepad without making some compromises, based on existing knowledge of the Wii U, which we know so little, but thought up an alternative method that uses the same principle as existing controller methods. Wiimote still required, but the Gamepad becomes a Classic Controller by plugging into the Wiimote, just like a CC does.

Edited on by Discostew

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cmk8

10. Posted:

I'm no technical expert so here comes the ignorance, but nowadays people seem to be able to get everything to talk to each other pretty easily, I just can't believe the experts at Nintendo can't sort out using the controller.
And if they couldn't I'd guess there's a huge number of teenagers out there that could do it for them (for a modest fee!)
When I heard you could use the gamepad for Wii games I was really excited, but the neccessity of another controller really spoils it.

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MAB

11. Posted:

I like playing vidiya gamz ;)

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faint

12. Posted:

cmk8 wrote:

I'm no technical expert so here comes the ignorance, but nowadays people seem to be able to get everything to talk to each other pretty easily, I just can't believe the experts at Nintendo can't sort out using the controller.
And if they couldn't I'd guess there's a huge number of teenagers out there that could do it for them (for a modest fee!)
When I heard you could use the gamepad for Wii games I was really excited, but the neccessity of another controller really spoils it.

I think it because they want us to continue to pay for upgrades. Just a guess. Also I imagine the folks who have already paid for them would be mad as hell if they mapped the buttons.

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skywake

13. Posted:

@Discostew
You missed (ignored?) the point I was making about VMWare. I was pointing out that despite the fact that Windows 95 never really supported USB natively and definitely never supported WiFi it still "works". You just get VMWare to tell it "hey, a network cable was plugged in" and it doesn't care. It doesn't need to care. Why should the particular implementation of the GamePad's communications make a difference? Why does the "Wii" need to know what's happening?

Personally I think that they either haven't gotten around to it yet and it'll be part of a future update or they don't think Backwards Compatibility is worth the effort especially if it compromises the value of their Wii U VC service. I don't buy this "technical impossibility" argument. Again, it seems like the same argument people made about displaying Wii games on the GamePad. Also they've put a lot into it if it's not worth the effort.

As for the Pro Controllers.... I'm pretty damn sure that Pro-Controller support in WiiMode is equally as hard as GamePad button support. It's just that it's less important. Again, I don't think the difference between Bluetooth and the proprietary WiFi makes any difference at all.

Edited on by skywake

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Moshugan

14. Posted:

adamkop wrote:

I think the main reason for Nintendo to not implement that functionality yet is the fact that the pad has only digital triggers. A lot of games used them [analog triggers]...

Concider that the Classic Controller Pro in fact does not have analog trigger. And since NO Wii games use analog triggers (to my knowledge) and Wii U cannot play Gamecube discs, it's a moot point.

Yeah, and hey, welcome to the NintendoLife forums! :D

Edited on by Moshugan

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Moshugan

15. Posted:

What I want is a headband which would house the IR camera from the Wiimote, so you could use the rest of the pad as nunchuk/Wiimote and use the pointer by just directing your head towards where you want to point. LOL! ;)

Edited on by Moshugan

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SCAR392

16. Posted:

@skywake
Since they have gone this far with supporting Wii Mode at all, it would seem this won't be the last update. Like I said, it will probably just the GamePad sharing a wireless controller port with player 1 Wii remote if it has a CC being used, and the game supports the controller in the first place.

The Wi-fi module has nothing to do with it. There are 2 different Wi-fi modules if I understand correctly. One for the GamePad, and one for the internet. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want a controller sharing the same input as the intenet on the same component.

Anyway, they're probably working on it, and yes, @DiscoStew explained that "jerry rigging" situation pretty well.

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