Topic: Wii U is safe from the NX!? Seems to be true

Pretty much every game that ever was retains the same mechanics of similar games in that genre. Unless they're entirely re-inventing the wheel or coming up with an entirely new genre. Everything is "just a rehash" in that sense. What you're doing then is just selectively applying that to Wii U games because you want to make this argument that the Wii U is stale.

That's the thing though, this is an industry wide problem. And no, just because everyone does it doesn't make it okay, because regardless of whether or not it's the industry norm it doesn't change that rehashy games just aren't fun. So really it has the opposite effect, it makes the entire industry look bad.

Also, Gamepad improvements? Don't make me laugh. The Gamepad has done very little for the Wii U. Most of the games either barely use it at all or just do the same thing that they did on the DS. There's no "different stuff" going on, every sequel has either not changed a thing or added some gimmick that makes almost no impact on the gameplay.

Again, I point to the collectathon Mario games and the Prime trilogy. Those are not reinventing the wheel or creating a new genre. They took the core mechanics and added a significant twist to them, using either new hardware or a unique theme to change things up. There's no bias involved here, those games honestly struck a better balance of old and new than recent games.

If you think that Mario Kart 8 having anti-gravity tracks makes it much different from the last game in the series and is a game that pushes it far, I don't agree with you. I also think that saying Star Wars Battlefront is Battlefield with a Star Wars skin and saying that it seems like an original game is contradictory.

@Operative:
Ya, but a lot of people would think that is criticism.

@Bolt_Strike:
I know a lot of companies release similar things, but that's exactly the point.
The GamePad has done some things right. It actually makes sense in a lot of what Wii U has.
Games that use the GamePad right:
ZombiU
Art Academy
Splintercell Blacklist
Deus Ex
Wind Waker HD
Wonderful 101
The Super Smash Bros. stage bulder
Pikmin 3
Kirby Rainbow Curse
Google Street U
Miiverse
...

The GamePad actually does matter in those games or apps. Basically anything that uses the motion and touch screen controls is still worthwhile. Saying it matters or not is really just a matter of opinion if it comes to that. It gives more options, period. If the Wii U has some similarities to DS, I would still consider that a good thing(if it's done right). That's exactly why DS was popular in the first place, so...

This argument about what a rehash is and isn't, is pointless. What we are talking about is from certain perspectives. Rather than saying what is and isn't a rehash, how about we use terms that actually matter. Is a game repetitive? Are the controls solid? When the game was released how long did you have to wait for a patch until you actually got to play? Trying to define a word like rehash. in relation to a game is pointless. There is a saying, "if it isn't broken don't fix it" and that works for a lot of games. There is also a drive to innovate in the industry and that works for a lot of games. Neither are bad or good.

So rather than using a silly word like "rehash" actually describe what you don't like. If the gameplay doesn't look like it evolved enough say that but if you have not played it be prepared for those that have played it to tell you if you are wrong or not. A person who has experienced anything first hand will have a better understanding of it than someone that watched a YouTube video about it. Rant over

Now to comment on Star Fox as I got to play it at E3. It is an evolution in gameplay, it takes what worked in 64 and adds to it. The gamepad aiming takes time getting use to but it does add extra skill to the game. Flying is exactly how you expect it to work but the transformations add a extra level of depth. The return of "Mission Accomplished" is fantastic and works just like it did in 64. (where they don't tell you how to get "Mission Accomplished" but it is there for you to find. Complaining that Star Fox Zero doesn't change the formula enough would be like saying Halo doesn't change the formula enough. The basic gameplay is there, fly around and shoot stuff, but it has added depth that will surprise returning fans. Please, play it before you bash it.

@SCAR392 It does matter if the Wii U is similar to the DS because if they're trying to push the Gamepad as an innovation it needs to do something dramatically different that couldn't have been done on a past console. Recycling previous gameplay styles is the exact opposite of what they should be doing to promote the Gamepad.

Thing is though, the aspects of the game that evolve the gameplay aren't things that you need first hand experience to know that they exist. The game needs to differ at a concept level to really evolve.

Wrong. You need to play it to understand the game completely. Watching gameplay videos will only get you so much, actual experience is required. Designers are recommended to play games for about a hour to understand the basics of the gameplay. Watching videos does not get you the full experience.

Not that original, as there have already been two star wars battlefront games already. However it is different enough that I wouldn't call it a rehash. Although I believe they've taken out space battles, which is a disappointing loss.

The actual experience doesn't tell you anything else about the mechanics, it just tells you about the controls and physics. The big things are all at a conceptual level. You can't sit here and tell me, for example, that you don't understand how Galaxy is innovative because you can see how mindbending the levels are just by watching them. You can't say that FLUDD isn't innovative because you can easily explain how they work. There's no big secret that magically reveals itself to you by playing, these are big ideas that you decide on in pre-production and define the entire game's direction.

How is this still a disagreement that we're having? I'm legitimately curious as to why you seem to think watching someone play the game is just as good as playing it ESPECIALLY in games that are extremely game play focused. If you really don't think you have to play a game to really understand it on the level it takes for those kinds of criticisms to be valid, how about we all just stop buying games altogether? I mean, you're clearly convinced there's no innovation in the industry, so stop supporting it! Go watch a YouTuber play through and get angry at Mario Party 10. There's no need for you to do it!

Before we get lost on the wrong tangent, I'm aware you don't actually think that. I'm satirizing your view point. I'm simply pointing out that when everyone that comes to the conversation and has played the game disagrees with you about your beliefs on a game you've only seen videos of, there's a relatively good chance they know something you don't because they've actually PLAYED the game that your superficially griping about. Just like you're saying Prime 2 and 3 changed up the series massively, when to my knowledge, Prime 2 and 3 are mostly more of the same. I could make an argument that Mario U made multiple changes to the game play and mechanics in the forms of new enemies, different types of challenges, new power-ups, and the fact that the layout of every single level is entirely different from the previous game. You know why I'm NOT making that argument? Because I've played the game and know that none of that stuff makes it feel different. I'm thoroughly convinced that these things make a difference on a party level where none of the players are particularly skilled and actually need the help of the fifth player to get anywhere, but I've always solo'd Mario games, and multiplayer pretty much ends with me and my best friend trying to kill each other while the other two players just do their best not to die every five seconds. (Shoot, and here I was trying NOT to get on a tangent.)

Anyways, my point IS. DKCR is not a step back from DKC. I don't particularly have much fondness for DKCR, mind you. I think it's one of the most BS DKC games. Not the most difficult. Just the most infuriating. IMO, DKC2 still holds both of those titles, though. (Fffffngh! Tangents! Back to the point.) DKCR isn't a rehash, either. It's a new take on DKC, and the hilarious thing about all of this? You're the one claiming it didn't change enough. Then you turn around and penalize it for all the changes it DID make. They made a new kind of DKC, and it worked beautifully in Tropical Freeze. Whether you like it or not. Whether you agree with it or not.

@Bolt_Strike:
Ya, and they added 9 axis w/ an IR remote. If it wasn't on the remote, it would be on the console, because otherwise how would I be wearing my Wii Fit U Meter right now? I'm actually surprised they didn't put 6-axis in New 3DS. I think it's still 3, but the camera already does stuff for 3D.

EDIT: BTW, 3DS has IR, too. You could have a universal remote app. The Wii U already does that by default, but Nintendo could create it for New 3DS if they want. That's why I think NX will do all that other stuff like that, including QoL.

Honestly, the term "rehash" is just another buzz word, only a derogatory one spread around by consumers rather than a marketing one used by the companies. Hell, the "repetitive gameplay" description doesn't mean too much cause when you really get down to it, all games are repetitive. Some are just more repetitive than others.

@UGXWolf It works in this context. If we were talking about controls and physics, then you would need experience to understand it. But not when we're talking about what a game does or does not do different, because those things can be easily explained, quantified, or demonstrated.

This argument is ridiculous, because every time the "you need to play the game" card is used, it's a deflection. There hasn't been a single valid counterpoint to what I'm saying, they usually just use it to ignore the logic.

As for DK, it makes perfect sense to criticize both because neither of them push the series forward. DKCR is a step backwards for the gameplay, and TF just brings us right back to where we started. Neither of them are doing significant, never before done in DK things.

@SCAR392 Show me a game where any of those things are used to provide a significantly different experience?

@Bolt_Strike:
Splatoon uses the 6 axis. The Wii Fit Meter and your HDTV are used for IR. When I turn on my TV, my audio receiver turns on, too. It matters if I go pick up the GamePad to play a game, instead of watching something like cable. I barely turn on my Xbox One, so I don't let that turn on my TV with Kinect or the remote.

If I go on a 6 mile walk, and I sit down in front of TV, that's where I connect it.

The 3DS will get the NFC reader via IR. That stuff still matters right now. That's why it's on the Wii U and 3DS for other stuff like that. Wii Fit U works just as well, if not better, because of the games on there that I can't even get on a smart watch. That is what Wii U is doing, instead.

You wouldn't necessarily know that the amount of water that FLUDD sprays is based on how far down the trigger is held. You certainly wouldn't know the feeling of doing it. An important detail, one which I didn't know about until about a year ago. I thought it was more "Hurrr spray the ink with water. Durr I need a refill." considering I haven't played it, I imagine that water conservation and pressure is essential in some levels. I've seen bits of gameplay, but I don't know if it's a good game without the feeling of playing it.

Your argument is akin to saying you don't like a particular food even when you haven't tasted it. Sure there are reasons a person won't eat a particular food (allergies, lifestyle choices, ethics), but they can't say they don't like the taste without trying it, and in the end the taste is a vital part of experiencing food.

I believe the game tells you you can do that, and even if you didn't know it, you could look it up online. And the feel isn't important to your understanding of the mechanics at all, mechanics are something you can explain or demonstrate. The pressure doesn't really matter too much in terms of how the game is played (except for the fact that you can't run when holding it down all the way), because either way you're spraying water. Pressure doesn't affect the game otherwise. Likewise with water conservation, you don't need to actually experience running out of water to know that it's important to the gameplay, you can see how the water is used by watching it.

Can't look it up online if I don't know about it, I'd only seen bits and pieces of the game so at no point did it tell me. Also by your logic someone should be able to fly a plane just by having someone show them a video about the mechanics of a plane.

"It's okay, I can compensate fort wind currents, drag, resistance and all that because the video told me about it!"

@Bolt_Strike: People HAVE raised valid counterpoints. You choose to ignore them because you don't agree with them. I don't understand in what Universe "I've played this game and know from playing it that it does do new things" doesn't qualify as a valid point. Nor do I see how you trying to argue that the mechanics aren't important isn't a deflection, when believe it or not, YES! Mechanics are very important in games that focus on GAME PLAY! The feel of the controller, the mechanics of the game, every minute change in physics and the layout of the level. It DOES actually make a different in MECHANICS-BASED GAMES! Something you blatantly ignore because they're not your kind of games. If you want new so much, there's a cutting edge market around here, somewhere, but some of us actually enjoy the existing concept of games and want to see them expanded and dragged out. Some of us weren't satisfied with DKCR and wanted more. Some of us actually got that out of DKCTF. You don't speak for everyone, the majority, or even a particularly large subset of gamers. Just because you push the fact that you haven't played the game to the side does not mean that it's not a valid reason to disbelieve your argument when in the face of someone who HAS actually experienced the game. I know you think that I only like DKCTF and defend it over some kind of nostalgic connection to it, but no. I like DKCTF and defend it because it's a good game that does amazing things and as long as you ignore that, I'm going to continue questioning whether you'd be singing a different tune if you had a Wii U and actually played Tropical Freeze.

If you're not sure, watch a full playthrough. Then you'll know everything you need to.

If they know the theory behind all of those things they're in good shape. The theory is much, much more important to their understanding of how to fly a plane than the practice.

That in itself is not a valid counterargument unless they list specific examples. And at that point it isn't even about playing or not playing, it's about the logic behind each of those examples.

No, changing the physics does virtually nothing for the gameplay. When people think of gameplay, they usually think of the "rules". What kinds of abilities they have at their disposal. They want to THINK about the game differently. Physics, feel, or any of the interactive elements make players think about the game differently, all of that is reflexive and the player automatically internalizes those things when playing and tends not to notice unless it's remarkably good or bad.

No, there is no cutting edge market anywhere in the industry and Nintendo is supposed to be that market, THAT'S THE ENTIRE PROBLEM!

I speak for everyone that's sick of rehashing, which is in fact a large group of gamers.

Not true. Logic trumps experience every time, you can't just throw away the logic if it's correct, that's ignorant.