Wii U Forum

Topic: Wii U and the state of the industry

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moomoo

121. Posted:

Mandoble wrote:

Vita has nothing?? Vita has excellent games already, Uncharted, MGS HD, Little Deviants, Mortal Kombat, Escape Plan, Every body's golf, Lumines, Motor Storm RC, Gravity Rush, Disgaea, Wipeout are all pretty good games, in fact its current collection is more solid than the 3DS one in the West, lets add the access to some hundreds of PSP games as well and PS1 ones next month. What do we have for 3DS? Mario Karts and Mario Land? Perhaps the old OOT? What else? Few might say the horrible KI or the 10 meters ahead rendering RE, and that's all. GBA has way better games than 3DS, but 3DS has longer legs, same happens between Vita and 3DS, but in this case 3DS dont even have a clear advantage in games.

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Uncharted: Golden Abyss - a game more expensive then its brethren on the PS3 but inferior in every way
Little Deviants - A sub-par minigame collection
Mortal Kombat, Motorstorm RC, Disgaea, MGS HD - games I can play on the PS3, Mortal Kombat and Metal Gear HD in a superior fashion
Lumines - incredibly overpriced
Escape Plan - too into gimmics rather than just making a solid game
I own 15 games on my 3DS on cartridge, and that's not counting the VC games I downloaded. Also, the 3DS can play all but 4 games in the entire DS library. The Vita only has access to the PSP games on PSN.

The Vita may have a more solid collection of games for you, but the majority of people see the 3DS as having more games.
For the record, if you take a look on gamerankings, there are 25 games that rank about a 7 on 3DS. There are 15 that rank above 7 on the Vita. Also, 3DS games can be found for way cheaper right now, whereas there's barely any considerable price reductions on the Vita.

Edited on by moomoo

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Banker-Style

122. Posted:

The Wii U ,and it's games has to be affordable,just like the Wii.

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moomoo

123. Posted:

@A-Hungry-Banker What makes them any less affordable then 360/PS3 games? It's only a $10 between Wii games and games on other platforms, and that's only for new stuff. Used stuff is about the same price.

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Banker-Style

124. Posted:

moomoo wrote:

@A-Hungry-Banker What makes them any less affordable then 360/PS3 games? It's only a $10 between Wii games and games on other platforms, and that's only for new stuff. Used stuff is about the same price.

The Wii U needs to have a killer title,and gimmick that makes people want it.
The Wii had it's motion controls,The DS had it's dual screens,and the 3DS had it's obvious 3D.
But all I've seen from the Wii U is a Wii with HD graphics,and a I pad like controller.
Don't get me wrong,I'm looking forward to the Wii U,but Nintendo has to make it affordable,because bar some Wii U exclusives,and that Controller,it's just a PS3.

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GameLord08

125. Posted:

Mandoble wrote:

Vita has nothing?? Vita has excellent games already, Uncharted, MGS HD, Little Deviants, Mortal Kombat, Escape Plan, Every body's golf, Lumines, Motor Storm RC, Gravity Rush, Disgaea, Wipeout are all pretty good games...

Based solely on opinion.

Mandoble wrote:

...in fact its current collection is more solid than the 3DS one in the West, lets add the access to some hundreds of PSP games as well and PS1 ones next month. What do we have for 3DS? Mario Karts and Mario Land? Perhaps the old OOT? What else? Few might say the horrible KI or the 10 meters ahead rendering RE, and that's all....

Based solely on biased opinion, and not on general prevalent reception at all.

Mandoble wrote:

GBA has way better games than 3DS, but 3DS has longer legs, same happens between Vita and 3DS, but in this case 3DS dont even have a clear advantage in games.

Based solely on opinion. Also inclusive of an out-of-the-blue comparison between the GBA and 3DS, which is apparently somehow beyond the understanding of all earthly logic, relative to the Vita and 3DS discussion.

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Mandoble

126. Posted:

GameLord08, I guess that you have enough age to already know that everything about games is based on perception, what you vulgary call "opinion", while it is clear that the comparison of GBA and its games with 3DS and 3DS and its games with Vita is beyond the understanding of YOUR logic. I will help you a bit with that, GBA has a great collection of games compared with DS and then with 3DS collections, but it is an outclassed device, actually the 3DS is way outclassed by the Vita as well, it didnt happen with DS vs PSP as in this case the DS was providing a new "touchscreen" extra control which opened may doors, but now all the advantages are on Vita's side. Then you will have characters like "moomoo" which will say always that every game for vita is crap or overpriced and that for some weird reason believes that all Vita users are PS3 users as well, and even more, he talks now about the "majority of people" ... what majority, his majority? Because the majority of people doesnt know even about the existance of the Vita, something that obviously he is not even able to consider.

Edited on by Mandoble

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Bankai

127. Posted:

Nah GameLord, the Vita's game line-up is fairly thin, but it's factually filled with good games.

Sound Shapes and Puddle are two more, to add to Mandabole's list. There's also a vastly superior Warriors game to either that are on the 3DS. And then there's the PSP back catalgoue, and soon PSOne classics.

People who don't like anything that the Vita offers are the ones with wayward opinions.

Edited on by Bankai

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GameLord08

128. Posted:

Mandoble wrote:

GameLord08, I guess that you have enough age to already know that everything about games is based on perception, what you vulgary call "opinion",

More often that not, an opinion can only be respected when a suitable argument as to why one's perspective is so is intelligently presented. Sound familiar? Of course not; it's beyond your understanding. I can even bet you haven't played half of the games you labelled in your post, or even taken a good look at them. You just went "the Vita has great games such as (unsure)" and "the 3DS has crap games such as highly well-received titles and considerably new franchise experiences". Just because you see them so does not give you the right to present them as facts.

Mandoble wrote:

while it is clear that the comparison of GBA and its games with 3DS and 3DS and its games with Vita is beyond the understanding of YOUR logic. I will help you a bit with that, GBA has a great collection of games compared with DS and then with 3DS collections, but it is an outclassed device, actually the 3DS is way outclassed by the Vita as well, it didnt happen with DS vs PSP as in this case the DS was providing a new "touchscreen" extra control which opened may doors, but now all the advantages are on Vita's side.

Of course your comparisons our beyond the understanding of my logic. They're beneath them. Anyhow, do provide considerable evidence and support perspectives as to how the GBA "outclasses" the 3DS, in similar relation as to how the Vita allegedly does so as well, according to your "perspective". Mind, do remember the 3DS has only been out for just over a year, before you make a fool of yourself comparing the entire GBA's game library to that of the 3DS's so far.

Do also explain to me why "all the advantages" are now on the Vita's side. You never seem to give any thorough explanations as to why your opinions are so; I'd advise you to rectify that before you attempt to debate with me on anything.

Mandoble wrote:

Then you will have characters like "moomoo" which will say always that every game for vita is crap or overpriced and that for some weird reason believes that all Vita users are PS3 users as well, and even more, he talks now about the "majority of people" ... what majority, his majority? Because the majority of people doesnt know even about the existance of the Vita, something that obviously he is not even able to consider.

Well, berating users who actually support their perspectives, now are we? Even I thought that was below you, Mandoble. And many games, though not all, for the Vita are games that I can already find on the PS3, ports or incarnations alike, or are rather unappealing, based on a wide variety of critiques - though I myself do not agree with some general opinions. And a few are also considerably overpriced as well - but that is mainly based on opinion alone. And many Vita users are PS3 users, just like many 3DS users are Wii users; it's an obvious general perception, and not in the least biased.

And the majority of people are aware of the Vita's existance; we're just not too intrigued by it, or its current game selection, or the fact that the handheld, the bloody expensive propietory memory cards and at least one game amount to an expense that will have us living off hamburgers for weeks. Sure, that may undoubtedly change in the near future with interesting things like the gorgeously convincing game Tearaway and the potential-filled PlayStation Mobile service being announced, but as of now, there is no real attraction to whipping out hundreds of dollars on the handheld, in many opinions. Unless you can prove to me otherwise?


@Waltz: I do agree with you, I am aware that the Vita does have quite a few good titles to offer. I'm not saying I don't like anything the Vita offers (I actually was convinced to get one at launch, but eh, monetary troubles), but my point is to many other potential consumers, there's nothing that seems outstandingly engaging. And it's a shame, really.

Edited on by GameLord08

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Mandoble

129. Posted:

GameLord08, this point defines you perfectly "I can even bet you haven't played half of the games you labelled in your post", because I have all of these and several more, and even more adding PSP titles. After that I have neither patience nor interest into wasting my time reading any more. After that, "I BET you dont have any idea about what you are talking about".

Mandoble

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moomoo

130. Posted:

@Mandoble Dude, I don't think the Vita's library is crap. I just think it's underwhelming when compared to other devices. Which makes sense right now; the thing hasn't even been out for a year.
For the record, Gravity Rush looks incredible, Hot Shots is a great series, Wipeout is a great series, and Sound Shapes is fantastic. Notice how I didn't point them out in my last post.
As for the overpriced subject, I feel this a problem on both the 3DS and the Vita. Something like Tetris Axis shouldn't debut at $30, and Lumines: Electronic Symphony is basically Lumines on my PSP but with a really slick leaderboards system. If it was on XBLA or PSN, it'd be $15. That's why I think it's overpriced.

I get that the Vita is an awesome device. I'm played around with one; it's really slick, really cool, and it has an absolutely amazing screen. I just don't know how I can justify purchasing one when only one Vita-exclusive game, Gravity Rush, appeals to me in a way that'd I'd pay $40 for it. The only other things I'd want to do with it is play PSP and PS1 games, and I can do that with my PSP. I get that the games are improved, but I'm not gonna plop down $250 and a memory card just to do that. I need more convincing, as do most other people, to go out and buy the device.

Oh, and @GameLord08 was saying that you're not supporting your view very well. There's nothing wrong with it, it's just that you aren't showcasing it in the right manner, or that you aren't seeing the other side of things.

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kyuubikid213

131. Posted:

@Mandoble Firstly, I don't think you understand the phrase "Zing" meaning I was joking.

Second, the 3DS has Ocarina of Time, Kid Icarus, Mario Kart, Revelations, Mercenaries, Samurai Chronicles, Dead or Alive, Street Fighter, Tales of the Abyss, Metal Gear, Kingdom Hearts, Mario Tennis Open, Mario 3D Land, NSMB2, Tekken, Asphalt 3D, Ridge Racer, Driver San Francisco, Star Fox... need I go on? And to counter your argument, the 3DS has the backlog of DS games (cough with proper backwards compatibility cough) and a building eShop to add even more to the gaming library. Compared to this, the Vita is a bit lacking.

And third, you didn't address the second part of my post at all. You didn't defend the lack of Vita game advertisements. You just named eleven Vita games and tried to compare it to five 3DS games to make them seem better. The 3DS games you mentioned, by the way, are pretty fantastic.

And lastly, your final sentence makes little to no sense.

Mandoble wrote:

GBA has way better games than 3DS, but 3DS has longer legs, same happens between Vita and 3DS, but in this case 3DS dont even have a clear advantage in games.

Didn't you say earlier that the Vita had longer legs?

Mandoble wrote:

BTW, the Vita has way longer legs than 3DS, time will tell.

And if you were comparing the 3DS to the GBA, may I ask why? That was two generations ago. Whether or not the GBA has better games fits nowhere in this debate...at all. And the 3DS not having a clear advantage? In what? Games? I hope you mean graphical power because the 3DS games have been doing rather well in terms of quality and content. It just lacks the graphical power of the Vita...

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Mandoble

132. Posted:

@kyuubikid213, I understand you were joking, but the others were not, and in this thread there is a generalized wrong feeling about the games available for the Vita. I already explained the comparison GBA vs 3DS, 3DS vs Vita. But I can repeat if you want. GBA has a better library of games? Yes it has. GBA was outclassed by 3DS, yes it is in every main aspect, control, power and graphics. The same happens with 3DS vs Vita, but in this case 3DS has not even a way better and larger library of games. As you said, 3DS is backwards compatible with DS, but how many DS games can you find at stores today? And the same happens with PSP, but in the case of Vita you can effectively download hundreds of PSP games that you will not find any more in stores. When comparing the devices (3DS vs Vita) it is not only that Vita has way better graphics capabilities, but also processing power and RAM. Only with RAM it doubles the PS3! It is like comparing Wii with PS3, but in this case it is the Vita the one with notorious advantage for the controller. Can you name a single technical or functional aspect where the 3DS can match the Vita? Because I cannot, and I have both consoles (in fact 2 3DS).

Including here some specs as well:
Vita:
CPU: 4x1.5Ghz
GPU: 4x300 MHz
RAM: 512MB / 128MB VRAM
Effective resolution: 960x544
Communications: 3G, Wi-Fi 802.11 b,g and n

3DS:
CPU: 2x266 MHz.
GPU: 1x133 MHz
RAM: 64MB / 4MB VRAM
Effective resolution: 400x240
Communications: Wi-Fi 802.11 b and g

Edited on by Mandoble

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DeMoN-13ruce

133. Posted:

Mandoble wrote:

True, and so the PS/PSOne and then PS2 were created, obliterating Nintendo and Sega from the home consoles market until the arrival of the Wii, and even then Wii sales numbers are ridiculous compared with these of the PlayStations.

PS/PSone: 130.5 M sold
PS2: 153.19 M sold
PS3: 64 M sold
Total: 348 M sold

N64: 32.9 M sold
Game Cube: 21.24 M sold
Wii: 96.5 M sold
Total: 151 M sold

Nintendo must be still hiting their heads against walls because of that betrayal

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ol you forgot the psp 3ds and the vita and ds and adavance and colour etc and idiot....if you count those with it they are at the same numbers>.>

Edited on by DeMoN-13ruce

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GameLord08

134. Posted:

moomoo wrote:

Oh, and @GameLord08 was saying that you're not supporting your view very well. There's nothing wrong with it, it's just that you aren't showcasing it in the right manner, or that you aren't seeing the other side of things.

Thank you, moomoo. I'm glad someone here can understand where I'm coming from.

I'm not attempting to contradict Mandoble at all, I was just trying to get him to bring his perspectives to better lighting with a foundation of reasoning to support it. So far, all I've seen is based solely on an opinion which I am unable to share, and I'd have appreciated for him to have been able to prove me wrong and also be able to support it. But surprisingly, asking that seems akin to asking for a new F-Zero game.

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Mandoble

135. Posted:

@DeMoN-13ruce, I didnt forgot anything, because if you were taking the time to read you will see that we were talking about the impact of commertial Nintendo betrayal on the HOME CONSOLES market. But you are right, from having no competitors at all in the handhelds area Nintendo was all of a sudden in front of the PSP, which also have a negative impact on Nintendo sales there where they were the very only kings of the hill during years.

@GameLord08, you were asking why PSV has longer legs than 3DS, you were aswered, if you dont like the answer that's your problem, not mine. Technical data and control options are not any opinion, it is raw data from the tech specs of both devices.

Edited on by Mandoble

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GameLord08

136. Posted:

I was not answered, actually. I was given a lecture on how one was "outclassed" and other other now had "all the advantages", but I was never given a real supportive reason for that opinion, among many other speculations of mine. No matter though.

And while the Vita may "outclass" the 3DS in technical power and control options, those have never proved a deal-breaker for the less-advantaged console, as has been proven time and again by the performance of the Wii. The 3DS is also more likely at the bigger advantage with software, with many more traditional IPs and fan favourites being scheduled by the dozen to be released - and let's not forget that the 3DS has a more attractive price tag to reel in newcomers, at that. On the issue of PSP/DS backwards-compatibility, DS games can still be found by the dozen if you look in the right places, just as can PS2 titles to state a random example. As with PSP-title downloads on the Vita, I feel you've forgotten that there was quite a raucus arisen from the arguably limited library the Vita was announced to offer in that area - and let's not forget that with downloads, you need memory cards, thanks to the Vita's appalingly non-existent internal storage, as opposed to the 3DS, which I shouldn't have to tell you is extremely costly, from what has been presented.

I'm rather astonished that you're not seeing from these viewpoints in addition. I really am not trying to contradict your perspectives, but with your considerable inability to respect the fact that the 3DS itself evidently has some advantages against the Vita, I'm really starting to label you as solely biased.

Edited on by GameLord08

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DeMoN-13ruce

137. Posted:

ah ok my bad well the ds was a succes outsold the ps2 nearly lol

3ds doubt it will sell as much and i guess the vita will sell like 30 million average
actualy the ds while way lower graphics still beated the psp easy same goes for vita now but i like sony and nintendo both

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Mandoble

138. Posted:

@GameLord08, not that I do care what you decide to label me, I can label you as solely petulant as well, but I will not, I will label you as solely blind. So you cannot understand that the 3DS is outclassed by the Vita, right? Or might be you disagree? All you keep saying is that 3DS has more games, which has no relation with the outclass argument. GBA has more games than 3DS as well, DS has more and better games than 3DS too, but both are outclassed by the 3DS, or not? Then you try to backup your self with the performance of the Wii, which proves exactly the opposite. Wii performance was outstanding, it was fully oriented to casual gamers and it did incorporate the wiimote, and excellent gimicking tool for these new casual home console players, it was also the cheaper console in the market. You must remember that before the Wii Nintendo did suffer catastrofic sales with the game cube because it did try to fight the other two, XBoX and PS2, with the Wii Nintendo avoided any direct comfrontation aiming it to a totally different type of players. Even considering that, the Wii was dead many months ago, while 360 and PS3 are still healthy, and the same might happen with the Vita, hence its longer legs. I dont think Vita will have better sales that the 3DS, it will hardly happens only because of price difference, but I'm pretty sure Vita will be still alive years after the dead of the 3DS. What did happen with the Wii, its premature dead and the lack of third party support? First, third parties always have Nintendo as their direct competitor, second porting anything to the Wii was way costly because of the tremendous performance difference, it was in many cases like creating the same game from scratch again. With the 3DS the situation is even worse, it is not only that its performance is as poor as the Wii one, it is that its controls will hardly allow any effective port. The opposite happens with the Vita, it doesnt miss anything present on PS3/XBoX or even WiiU, which should ensure full third party support even if only for quick ports.

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GameLord08

139. Posted:

Mandoble wrote:

@GameLord08, not that I do care what you decide to label me, I can label you as solely petulant as well, but I will not, I will label you as solely blind. So you cannot understand that the 3DS is outclassed by the Vita, right? Or might be you disagree?

Pray tell how my posts label me as "petulant"? And I never said I do not see the Vita's advantages over the 3DS, for goodness' sake. I'm telling you to provide me with concrete evidence as to why the 3DS is undeniably "outclassed" by the Vita, despite how their advantages respectively work in favour of both.

Mandoble wrote:

All you keep saying is that 3DS has more games, which has no relation with the outclass argument. GBA has more games than 3DS as well, DS has more and better games than 3DS too, but both are outclassed by the 3DS, or not?

I did not say the 3DS has more games. I said the 3DS has more traditional IPs and fan-favourites. There's a huge difference.

Mandoble wrote:

Then you try to backup your self with the performance of the Wii, which proves exactly the opposite. Wii performance was outstanding, it was fully oriented to casual gamers and it did incorporate the wiimote, and excellent gimicking tool for these new casual home console players

That was unrelated; I was stating that power does not always "outclass" the less-advantaged console, and the performance of the Wii supports my perspective.

What made it fully oriented to casual gamers? Because from what I know, I know millions of avid core gamers who have found bliss with many Wii titles. And if the Wiimote, a provident new incorporation to home gaming consoles with an innovative control experience, is a gimmicking tool, then by your standards, so is the PlayStation Move and possibly Kinect as well. But I'm sure I know plenty of "hardcore" gamers who were enthralled by both experiences.

Mandoble wrote:

it was also the cheaper console in the market. You must remember that before the Wii Nintendo did suffer catastrofic sales with the game cube because it did try to fight the other two, XBoX and PS2, with the Wii Nintendo avoided any direct comfrontation aiming it to a totally different type of players. Even considering that, the Wii was dead many months ago, while 360 and PS3 are still healthy, and the same might happen with the Vita, hence its longer legs.

A cheaper price tag can also be an advantage to a certain base of consumers, and I believe the cheaper price tag was mainly oriented to the fact that the Wii's hardware wasn't as aggresively matched to that of the rivalling consoles. And yes, I'm aware the GameCube did suffer financially, but that was because it had no significant advantage/difference against the Xbox and PS2; they provided quite a few more features. That was outstandingly rectified with the arrival of the Wii. As for purposely aiming it to another set of gamers, I can't comment on that; I don't speak for the entire population of Wii owners, and it'd be out-of-place to assume anything.

The PS3 and Xbox 360 did have Move and Kinect introduced a significant amount of time ago, and they may be a considering factor as to why they have been bought a few more years. While I may agree that the Vita does have a significant length over the 3DS in some aspects, "the same might happen with the Vita" is only a prediction, and one that isn't being showcased very well by the Vita's current performance.

Mandoble wrote:

I dont think Vita will have better sales that the 3DS, it will hardly happens only because of price difference, but I'm pretty sure Vita will be still alive years after the dead of the 3DS. What did happen with the Wii, its premature dead and the lack of third party support? First, third parties always have Nintendo as their direct competitor, second porting anything to the Wii was way costly because of the tremendous performance difference, it was in many cases like creating the same game from scratch again. With the 3DS the situation is even worse, it is not only that its performance is as poor as the Wii one, it is that its controls will hardly allow any effective port. The opposite happens with the Vita, it doesnt miss anything present on PS3/XBoX or even WiiU, which should ensure full third party support even if only for quick ports.

It doesn't happen solely only because of price difference, I agree, but it is a considerably major factor. The 3DS does not directly reflect the fate of the Wii, mind, and the fact that the Vita may survive years after the 3DS is only speculation at most. Lack of third party support on the Wii doesn't look to be the case for the 3DS, seeing from a few titles that have been released/announced on the titles. As for the issue on controls, well, I think it mainly only depends on preference, and I'm unsure whether or not this may be a significant effect on the 3DS's support. I'm indifferent on the issue, but that's only an opinion of mine.

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DeMoN-13ruce

140. Posted:

Mandoble wrote:

With the 3DS the situation is even worse, it is not only that its performance is as poor as the Wii one, it is that its controls will hardly allow any effective port. The opposite happens with the Vita, it doesnt miss anything present on PS3/XBoX or even WiiU, which should ensure full third party su
pport even if only for quick ports.

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my psp is only alive now since i can download gamescheap.....if nintendo does that also after a new console it can life just sololy on that and the normal ds is still alive i agree the wii is near dead though becuase of poor releases AND poor ONLINE SHOP
and the ds has poor online shop too in my opinion...but the 3ds online shop is alot better

The ds is basicly like ps2 it will have support for some years after:p
even the psp still got some support with so much piracy same for ds but you needed an card for it for psp you only needed to download something

and ITS NOT ABOUT GRAPHICS BUT ABOUT how the software (games are) AND the price is ahuge factor most ppl can't simply affort 300+dollars and buy a 3ds with some games instead same was with the wii....But if nintendo keeps 3rd party support and make first party games through the whole cycle it wil not be dead at all

i support you posterabove me AKA gamelord8

i do hope they both sell nice becuase i like nitendo/sony consoles/handhelds only reason i have no xbox becuase i'm not going to pay each month for online experience:/ and since im on college and need money for car+license

Edited on by DeMoN-13ruce

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