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Topic: What is next gen ?

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Midnight3DS

KAHN wrote:

Next Gen is about how technology has improved since the last generation. imho, WiiU is more powerful than PS3/360, but nowhere near powerful enough to be considered next-gen like the PS4/One.

I have no doubt Wii U has an overall power edge on PS360, but I don't know how much. Graphically speaking, games such as Arkham City and Assassin's Creed look nearly identical, with Wii U's color being slightly more subdued in some instances.

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AC:NL Mayor Jambo, town of Hamneggs

MAB

DR has bigger graphics on Wii compared to the tiny ones on 360

MAB

MAB

@WavleBerrySupreme The next space marine dudebro fest will be the year 500,476 AD planet Marclar9 is overrun by mutant cybernetic zombimorphs and our only saviours are a mother and son sent from uranus colony69... 2 hours of gameplay with 20 hour cutscenes, very glitchy and bug laden

Edited on by MAB

MAB

SCRAPPER392

Midnight3DS wrote:

KAHN wrote:

Next Gen is about how technology has improved since the last generation. imho, WiiU is more powerful than PS3/360, but nowhere near powerful enough to be considered next-gen like the PS4/One.

Graphically speaking, games such as Arkham City and Assassin's Creed look nearly identical, with Wii U's color being slightly more subdued in some instances.

It's a port. Not only do ports lose quality from being converted, but they didn't add anything besides some GamePad features.
You can't blame 3rd parties for how they've handled Wii U thus far. I do think they'll take notice to a probable 5 million or so install base when other 8th gen consoles show up, though.

EDIT: BTW, Ubisoft and basically every 7th gen port that showed up on Wii U, only had to sell approximately 16,666 copies to break even on the investment.

Edited on by SCRAPPER392

Qwest

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Midnight3DS

Except PS2 gen 3rd party software was ported to PS360, and there was an easily noticeable visual difference. Here, there's really no noticeable difference at all. Unless you believe the ports are even sloppier here, but I don't know what that would be based on. Though performance wise, they should certainly run smoother on Wii U,

3DS Friend Code: 5129-0855-7142 ID = Midnight

AC:NL Mayor Jambo, town of Hamneggs

SCRAPPER392

Midnight3DS wrote:

Except PS2 gen 3rd party software was ported to PS360, and there was an easily noticeable visual difference. Here, there's really no noticeable difference at all. Unless you believe the ports are even sloppier here, but I don't know what that would be based on. Though performance wise, they should certainly run smoother on Wii U,

It really depends on what game you're talking about that was ported from 6th gen to 7th gen.
Any game that was ported or re-released from 6th gen(besides PS2 exclusives) for PS3 was the Xbox version, so if you went from PS2 to 7th gen, you were basically jumping approximately 1.3( to Xbox 360) or 1.5(for PS3) generations up graphically.
The HD resolution obviously made the games better right off the bat. If they added any better textures than that, that required more investment, but controllers weren't part of the upgrade.
As far as the Wii U ports go, they didn't add anything visually to take advantage of the hardware. Really, the Wii U can do a good ammount better graphically than 7th gen systems.
You can't blame the Wii U for straight ports graphically, because the devs didn't even add anything texture or polygon wise like they did for Xbox 360 and PS3 at the time. All they added was GamePad or Wii remote support, and nothing more. They still don't really know how to use the Wii U tech.
Heck, even Need For Speed: Most Wanted U is a port. That was ported from the PC version that had better graphics than the 7th gen console versions(not by alot, but still). That's a title they added no extra graphics to, either, and the Wii U can handle it, sans 2 players online. It has better textures and lighting than PS3 from what I can tell.
You can't judge the Wii U graphics off of launch 3rd party port games, because they didn't add anything besides other control options.

Edited on by SCRAPPER392

Qwest

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shingi_70

WaveBoy wrote:

when I look at the PS4 and XBOXOne all I see are PS3/XBOX experiences with a prettier & shnazzier new coat of paint. At this point in the game at least for me that just doesn't qualify as true next gen. hardware innovation is just as important, even more so now since graphics are getting close to reaching their mute point.

Go play ZombiU, you will NOT beable to get that experience on the PS4 and Xboxone. It's going to be the Wii, XBOX and PS3 all over again. One console striving for new ways to innovate the game and change the we Wii play games while the other two twins bath in their groovy tech heavy realistic next gen gwaphics. At this point, I'm far more interested in the former.

I think what's real exciting, is when they can finally give us 3D on the big screen that somehow doesn't split the framerate in halve or effects PQ, yeah i guess at this point they have to design games in either 60fps or 120fps to get a solid 30-60fps.

Eh I much prefer state of Decay on Live Arcade to ZombiU.

It's pretty much an Open World Zombie game with empahsisis on having to surivive and keep your community in tact. The next game update is going to a mode with none of the story just having to survive.

The mode is as it suggests; a free-roaming simulation mode that sees players surviving as long as they can. In the background the game will track how long players live, their aptitude at gathering resources, and the mode was described by Strain as a “SimCity-style simulation.”

$20 and probably is my favorite game this year.

also again not every MS/Sony game for next gen is a realistic gaming fest

Sony
Knack
The Order: 1616 (though I have my doubts)

Microsoft
Killer Insticnt
Sunset Overdrive
Minecraft
Project Spark
Crimson Dragon
Below
Kinect Sports Rivals
Lococycle
Zoo Tycoon
Powerstar Golf

Edited on by k8sMum

WAT!

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AlexSays

With some of the ideology in this thread, we would have been playing Pong for the past 20 years with just different control schemes.

Some of us want the advanced technology, not just a novelty factor. Nintendo fans consistently ignore the fact that hardware doesn't just dictate graphics. Advanced physics, AI, particle effects, and other technical aspects of games rely on this increased hardware. Making those aspects more available to developers opens up new gameplay opportunities.

Unfortunately some people see games with great graphics and think 'well that's the ONLY thing they have going for them'. Its similar to how people react when they see a really good looking woman, and assume because she's good looking, there's less of a chance of her also being intelligent.

Biased, ignorant approach either way.

AlexSays

Aviator

WaveBoy wrote:

One console striving for new ways to innovate the game and change the we Wii play games while the other two twins bath in their groovy tech heavy realistic next gen gwaphics. At this point, I'm far more interested in the former.

Yep, sounds like it.

WaveBoy wrote:

Mario Kart 8 visually looks far more stunning than that PS4 Knack Sh**.

QUEEN OF SASS

It's like, I just love a cowboy
You know
I'm just like, I just, I know, it's bad
But I'm just like
Can I just like, hang off the back of your horse
And can you go a little faster?!

MAB

State of Decay review sums up the majority of PSBOX games... Glitchy, bug laden clunkfest

MAB

AlexSays

MadAussieBloke wrote:

State of Decay review sums up the majority of PSBOX games... Glitchy, bug laden clunkfest

One day I am going to write a book on masterful trolling, and I am going to send you a free copy.

AlexSays

shingi_70

Its a game made by a small Dev team and cost $20 to make. Its a game that's great in spite of technical bugs, and sales have supported that

http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/games-state-of-decay-fastest-sel...

Undead Labs also have gotten patches out in a quick succession. The only real issue the game has is the framerate being god awful at times. Beyond that it's a pretty hardcore zombie Sim.

WAT!

Hey check out my awesome new youtube channel shingi70 where I update weekly on the latest gaming and comic news form a level headed perspective.

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element187

AlexSays wrote:

He can give his complex reasoning as to why its technically superior all he wants

All that matters is this

SCAR392 wrote:

The Wii U is not more powerful than X1 and PS4.

Linky

Therefore we shouldn't expect the Wii U to produce anything more impressive than we see on the other consoles, even according to Scar.

And I can agree to that

Anyone who will claim that the Wii U is on par with the PS360 is completely clueless about computer hardware.... Nintendo just showed a couple games at e3 that look visually superior to anything we saw on the ps360.

First off MK8 would be impossible to run on the ps360 because of the lighting and depth of field(bokeh) is far more advanced on the Wii U and the self shadowing and shading is far more advanced on the Wii U... But take those things away from the game and use the ancient feature set of the ps3/360 and lower the shadow quality, lighting, and use the primitive depth of field(bokeh) of the ps3/360 (have you seen bokeh on the ps360? It looks like someone smeared Vaseline on the camera lense) but lets take all of those effects and downgrade them to what the ps3 can handle, the system would absolutely choke on this game where it would be lucky to even play the game with the reduced effects at 25fps(hardly any games ran at 60fps on ps360 and the ones that did looked janky as all get out,I'm looking at you burnout paradise)

Meanwhile this game with Visually superior effects on the Wii U is running at 60fps even in splitsscreen WHILE rendering a second screen as well(gamepad).. I just can't see how anyone can say this system is on par with the ps360 (without trolling) when the ps360 would struggle mightily to even hold a playable frame rate with mk8. Just to run the game in 60fps puts it at 2.5x to 3x over the ps360's power. Add on its doing it splitscreen with a second screen as well, its even more impressive.

Judging this particular systems power based on ports is a fallacy. You will not find any third party that is going to spend any time on upgrading their game to take advantage of the hardware on Wii u with such a small user base. Criterion spent time with the hardware to push it just out of reach of the ps360... The game bombed which means it was a waste of time and money to upgrade the visuals. Other third parties saw criterion lose money on this game and so they would be hesitant to put in the extra effort that Criterion did. The only company that is going to push the system it looks like is Nintendo. 3rd parties may spend time upgrading visuals to put games on the spybox1 and ps4 because the opportunity is there to extract value for their effort, its just not there for the Nintendo console, sadly. So how can anyone judge this systems power based on ports? A game is only going to be as good as an effort a developer is willing to put into it.

Edited on by element187

element187

AlexSays

^ Nobody in this thread has said the Wii U is on par with the 360 or PS3.

The post of mine you are quoting is acknowledging the fact the Wii U is superior than last gen consoles, but doesn't measure up to the new consoles. Which is a continuation from discussions him and I have had in other threads.

AlexSays

element187

KAHN wrote:

Next Gen is about how technology has improved since the last generation. imho, WiiU is more powerful than PS3/360, but nowhere near powerful enough to be considered next-gen like the PS4/One.

I'm not understanding this.... The Wii U being 3x the power of the ps360 is only somewhat faster while the spybox1 is 3x faster than the Wii U makes omg so much faster its next gen.

The ps4 might be alot faster than the Wii U but the spybox isn't really very fast.... The ps4 has 1.8tflop GPU while the spybox has a 1.2tflop but the GPU is down clocked by 80% on the spybox... It's lucky to be pushing 900 gflops.

What ever speed advantage the spybox has over the Wii U is lost in the resolution jump to 1080p... Whatever spybox is going to do at 1080p the Wii U will be able to do at 720p....both the GPU of the spybox and Wii U are roughly from the same GPU generation (read the exact same feature set, dx11 on spybox vs OpenGL 4 in the WiiU) And that's ok, that's what the Wii U was designed to do. But lets not pretend that Microsoft's console is even close to the ps4, its not even half the power of the ps4. We aren't even talking about the memory which will push the ps4's ability even further out of reach of the spybox.

But if people are this much of a graphic lover why bother with the ps4 when you can upgrade your computers GPU to a GPU that 3x the speed of theps4 for less than $400.... With a Radeon 7970 you are easily going to surpass the the ps4 by a magnitude of 2.5x (4+ tflops) and even the slowest of desktop and laptop CPU's will absolutely crush the tablet CPU in the ps4.

Edited on by k8sMum

element187

shingi_70

^ brah people would take you more seriously if you didn't use terms like spybox. Its already been confirmed kinect is configurable.

Also you can tell power by how the ports are compared to the pS4/One versions.

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skywake

AlexSays wrote:

With some of the ideology in this thread, we would have been playing Pong for the past 20 years with just different control schemes.

Some of us want the advanced technology, not just a novelty factor. Nintendo fans consistently ignore the fact that hardware doesn't just dictate graphics. Advanced physics, AI, particle effects, and other technical aspects of games rely on this increased hardware. Making those aspects more available to developers opens up new gameplay opportunities.

Unfortunately some people see games with great graphics and think 'well that's the ONLY thing they have going for them'. Its similar to how people react when they see a really good looking woman, and assume because she's good looking, there's less of a chance of her also being intelligent.

Biased, ignorant approach either way.

Can I say one of your posts is a load of bull again because this is a load of bull. This is not what people have been arguing.

Using your women analogy, even though it does have a hint of the misogyny about it, maybe these "ignorant gamers" are looking for the "intelligence" in these "next gen" games directly. Maybe when sifting through the "next-gen" offerings from the PS4/XBone there hasn't been that much. It's all "good looks" and not much in the way of "conversation". Maybe instead the "ignorant" Nintendo gamer is after a different class of "woman". Yes?

Call me crazy but it wasn't horsepower that make games like Portal, The Last of Us, Bioshock memorable. It was talent in the art of making video games. Now if you're into that sort of experience and feel that Nintendo are one of the best studios for making games then the advance in power means very little. Simple /thread

Edited on by skywake

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

element187

Sony_70 wrote:

^ brah people would take you more seriously if you didn't use terms like spybox. Its already been confirmed kinect is configurable.

Also you can tell power by how the ports are compared to the pS4/One versions.

Sorry, kinect is required to be plugged in at all times. Do you really trust Microsoft enough if you "disable" kinect that its truly off? I don't. Have you seen the NSA leaks from this Snowden character? The PRISM program named Microsoft as a huge player in collecting data for the US government. I wouldn't put it past Microsoft to be in bed so deep with the government that they would accept money to allow government into these boxes. Why does the system REQUIRE kinect to be plugged in all times... This is horse pucky. There is ZERO justified reason for this box to require Kinect while playing Halo or even just navigating the menu.

Because you are willing to accept it doesn't mean others trust either government nor Microsoft even a little bit.

And no, ports on Sony/Microsoft will get the extra effort because there is money to be made. A company isn't going to put in effort if there isn't a bundle of cash waiting for the studio at the end of the rainbow... Some reason gamers think companies should want to lose money. No developer is going to put in even a little bit of effort on the Wii U after watching Criterion lose so much money on a port that easily surpasses the ps360 version by quite a bit. Why bother if they will be lucky to break even on the game just to port the game 'as is' with no extra effort? The Wii U will have nothing but lazy ports from third parties and they can point to NFSMW as the reason there is no benefit to putting in any extra effort beyond just getting the ps360 version to run stable.

Edited on by element187

element187

AlexSays

skywake wrote:

Can I say one of your posts is a load of bull again because this is a load of bull. This is not what people have been arguing.

I'd prefer you only say this to other people, actually. And I don't understand 'again'. What post of mine did you have issues with earlier? lol. Also a post that starts off with 'ideology in this thread' is not directly referencing the debate at hand, it is referencing the line of thinking people are using to form their stance.

Using your women analogy, even though it does have a hint of the misogyny about it, maybe these "ignorant gamers" are looking for the "intelligence" in these "next gen" games directly. Maybe when sifting through the "next-gen" offerings from the PS4/XBone there hasn't been that much. It's all "good looks" and not much in the way of "conversation". Maybe instead the "ignorant" Nintendo gamer is after a different class of "woman". Yes?

The point was that people criticize something because they are unaware of its existence. Examples of technology benefiting games in ways other than graphics are readily available. If people cannot see those for themselves, they are indeed ignorant. Now if people see those advancements yet prefer something else, that is great too. Not what I was talking about though.

Call me crazy but it wasn't horsepower that make games like Portal, The Last of Us, Bioshock memorable. It was talent in the art of making video games. Now if you're into that sort of experience and feel that Nintendo are one of the best studios for making games then the advance in power means very little. Simple /thread

Actually, power was quite a large part of The Last of Us. lol. If they had placed the game on the PS2, hardware restrictions would have hurt many aspects of what made the game so engaging. I have no idea what you're talking about here.

Edited on by AlexSays

AlexSays

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