Wii U Forum

Topic: What is next gen ?

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WaveBoy

181. Posted:

C'mon you two, make kissy kissy or settle this out on the Pixel Playground.
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banacheck

182. Posted:

Personal i'm glad we have "choice* from 3 different companies, which have pushed the gaming industry in there own rights, and that has benefited our consoles. Otherwise consoles wouldn't be where thay are today, and believe or not some of these companies do respect each other, especially for what thay had done for the gaming industry.

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MAB

183. Posted:

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Forever living to inappropriately touch the mentalities of armchair internet gaming analysts and worthless console war fanboys... Let their sad stories burn eternally within my inbox furnace of hell ;)

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Contrite

184. Posted:

Anyone who doesn't think that the Wii U is of the next generation should look up the word generation.

And in any case, I consider the Wii U more next-gen than the other two consoles solely because it does something new. As in the controller. If I want to experience better graphics than I do currently, I would never buy a console for that purpose, I'd just upgrade my PC.

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element187

185. Posted:

Lol, great thread. I can't believe I missed 4 pages of win while spending time with the wife.

We know the PS4 has a Radeon 7850 or similar because during the reveal back in February Sony had a bullet point mentioning the GPU is capable of 1,800,000,000,000 floating point operations per second, or 1.8 teraflops running at around 140 watts of power.

That slimey lawyer like tentacle, Don Mattrick, wouldn't give out how many flops, if it was even closely comparable to ps4 they would have announced it from the rooftops, instead they gave us the systems TPU at 100 watts (that wattage looks correct with all the devkits we saw of the system having a Radeon 7770) and a completely irrelevant number of transistors (sorry the number of transistors is a pretty laughable and pointless metric to give out)...

We do know all three systems are using very modern GPU's (AMD Radeon based GPU's) with just about similar feature sets - dx10.1 and dx11 specification (with Wii U and PS4 using the equivalent OpenGL 4.0) so there really isn't going to be any surprises here as far efficiency goes. So we can infact state that the 40 extra watts in the ps4 would lead to almost a 50% percent increase in processing power for the Sony system... (Lets be generous to spybox and say a few watts will be used to operate spy camera)

For comparisons sake the Wii U runs at 33 watts at peak (Iwata says it can handle 70 watts no problem) which roughly make the 100 watt Xbox 3x as powerful.

No we cannot compare these numbers to last generation wattages because GPU's keep getting fabbed smaller and smaller which allows the GPU to do more processing with less power aka efficiency.

We will have exact flop numbers on the Xbox come this fall when people start opening up the system, until then we go on the assumptions of the leaks on the dev kits (they have been 100% accurate here in the last 6 months on other components like memory sub system and the always connect kinect) which have the hardware nailed at 1.2 teraflops, and we know the power of that GPU is going to run at 85-90% of max effectively making it a 900 gigaflop GPU. That's exactly half the 1.8 teraflop number the ps4 can pull off.

I follow computer hardware closely because I have been building gaming PC's for my fathers business for at least 2 decades now, so I find all the technical discussions of the new consoles on the web fascinating.... We will know exact numbers when the ps4 and spybox are available to purchase, i really don't see either system being radically different from the latest dev kits. If the final hardware changes too much it could effect the performance and stability of games currently in development. And I'm sure EA and Ubisoft wouldn't appreciate this changing on them when they have millions of dollars invested into the development of these new boxes.

Edited on by element187

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skywake

186. Posted:

Interesting! 7770 ~ 7870 is about mid-to-low-range new PC territory but is quite a huge leap from where the 360/PS3 were. For some perspective here's a benchmark of both of those cards running Tomb Raider:

Worth noting that console games are optimised BUT these guys overclock. So take it with a grain of salt... but it's probably about right. It's probably about the sweet spot for graphics cards right now. Enough to do a high textured, high effects version of pretty much any game from the end of the "last gen" at full 1080p and with stable 60fps probably attainable with optimisation. I don't think you could really ask for that much more than that. With a console setup.

Improving textures, improving effects, going for double the framerate to ~60 and doubling the resolution from 720 to 1080 for the PS4. Same but less shinies with the XBOne assuming they don't decide to lazy port games for PS4. The Wii U isn't as powerful and will only do textures, some minor extra effects and one of better resolution or framerate. In terms of GPU at least. So thems be where the battle lines are drawn!

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rallydefault

187. Posted:

@skywake

A Radeon 7770 is not super shabby, to be honest. I would actually put it above middle tier, at least by a bit. As background, AMD and Nvidia are both sort of "holding the line" right now and are rumored to release their new line of GPUs sometime in the Fall. The AMD line (Radeons) currently doesn't go above the Radeon 7990, I believe, and that puppy is still going for around $900 most places. Granted, there is a bigger gap in performance between the 7770 and the 7990 than you may realize, but the 7770 is still nothing to sneeze at.

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AlexSays

188. Posted:

skywake wrote:

Again with something I never said. If someone should start quoting perhaps you should quote the bit where I claimed you were contradicting yourself or changing your stance.

ok

skywake wrote:

If you want to agree with that and pretend you never said the things I innitially responded to then fine.

So now I haven't shifted my stance to ignore anything? So we're back to not disagreeing on anything, though I'm sure you'll want to argue about it for another five or so pages. lol

This has not been very insightful, to say the least.

WaveBoy wrote:

C'mon you two, make kissy kissy or settle this out on the Pixel Playground.

I'm still not entirely sure what he's even going on about. lol. I'm pretty sure when he mistook me for someone else, he read my post as if it were attacking him, and now he's just too arrogant to give it up.

Skarwake, there's not much else I can do here. I provided the reasoning for my post, you agreed with my original assertion, yet you just continue ridicule me for posting it. I'm not sure what you'd like me to take away from this, other than if I don't post something you deem a contribution to the discussion, you're going to go on for ages about how its some great fallacy (what in particular, who knows since you won't quote it).

For the sake of time though I will let you have this. You have completely owned me for that thing you say I did wrong, and I looked like a total newb for posting that thing that was wrong about something. Now I'll let you get in your final remark about your superior intellect, how I cannot read, and how you're running away from this victorious. I imagine you'll even throw in a '/thread' or something, wouldn't that be nice. lol

You have a nice day now

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WaveBoy

189. Posted:

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Currently Playing: Donkey Kong Country Returns!
We shall swim to Bubble Island, or you will suffer the wrath of my Trident Laser!
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Klimbatize

190. Posted:

AlexSays wrote:

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Second time in as many days you've teased us with a gif like this.

Edited on by Klimbatize

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skywake

191. Posted:

@rallydefault
True although mostly because the vast, vast majority of PC gamers don't upgrade their rigs every year. I think the average upgrade cycle from memory based on Steam statistics is about three years. If the 7770 was measured against the average active gamer rig it would definitely be mid-range but against new builds it would be on the low end of reasonable purchases. At the point where if you spend less you're paying about the same for much, much less.

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rallydefault

192. Posted:

@skywake

Agreed. I currently have a Radeon 6950 that's now over a year old. It's a nice card that still lets me run new releases on Ultra/High (except for Crysis 3 lol), but I'm going to wait to upgrade until the holidays when AMD (hopefully) releases its 8000 series. Actually, depending on the cost of those, my next big gaming decision is going to come down to whether I want a PS4/Xbone for roughly $500, or a new graphics card budget of about $500, maybe a little more. To be honest, the new graphics card would probably get me better graphics and let me do more, as the rest of my PC (motherboard, 16 gigs RAM, i7 processor, dual monitor setup and HD TV connection) kicks a lot of butt. We'll have to see. These consoles just get closer and closer to PCs with a few exclusives and internet services you have to pay for.

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kyuubikid213

193. Posted:

I apparently just made the mistake of putting the Wii U as a "next-gen", now current gen, console. My friends in my dorm bought a PS4 and an Xbox One and said the Wii U was both a "last gen console" and "just a Wii."

I hate people sometimes.

And get this, the fact that it can play Wii games makes it merely a Wii and not a new system. That's how backwards their perspective of backwards compatibility is.

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Kodeen

194. Posted:

Wow, what a great thread. Thank you for randomly bumping it 8 months after the fact to complain about your roommates.

Kodeen

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kkslider5552000

195. Posted:

But what is cloud gaming?

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Bolt_Strike

196. Posted:

It's next gen, but just barely. It's only really a marginal improvement over last gen, combining what the Wii and 3DS did and offering very little that is truly new or improved.

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kyuubikid213

197. Posted:

We've been over this already though... Generations are defined by the successors' release, not tech.

It is a vast improvement over the Wii, thus it is a next gen console.

If we're looking at technical specs, then even the PS4 and One are last gen compared to high end PCs.

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MuchoMochi

198. Posted:

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Edited on by MuchoMochi

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Bolt_Strike

199. Posted:

kyuubikid213 wrote:

It is a vast improvement over the Wii, thus it is a next gen console.

If by "vast improvement", you mean an HD Wii with a DS-style tablet, then yes, it is a "vast improvement".

Bolt_Strike

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kyuubikid213

200. Posted:

Bolt_Strike wrote:

kyuubikid213 wrote:

It is a vast improvement over the Wii, thus it is a next gen console.

If by "vast improvement", you mean an HD Wii with a DS-style tablet, then yes, it is a "vast improvement".

Har har. Because the Sony and Microsoft consoles do something completely different minus the DS-style tablet.

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