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Topic: What is next gen ?

Posts 161 to 180 of 194

shingi_70

So who here like the Viyda Games?

WAT!

Hey check out my awesome new youtube channel shingi70 where I update weekly on the latest gaming and comic news form a level headed perspective.

3DS Friend Code: 3093-7342-3454 | Nintendo Network ID: shingi70

SCRAPPER392

Midnight3DS wrote:

@SCAR392 "The only thing Vita has is better graphics now. Some things are opinionated, but whatever."

Opinionated, definitely. There are several debateably better aspects with Vita, aside from graphics. Internet browser, for one, is no contest. Twin sticks is another advantage. Price decision on the part of Nintendo. Gyro can fly out the window along with six axis as far as I'm concerned.

Well, there is the CPP XL, which adds another stick. Really, it wouldn't be that hard to add CPP XL support, but developers ignore it anyway. The CPP also adds LZ and RZ, BTW, which Vita would have to add, too.
It wasn't a price decision for Nintendo to not include dual analog. They couldn't fit it into the shell they wanted for the 3DS.
The internet browser is still pretty good on 3DS. It measures up to the Xbox 360 in terms of capability. The PS Vita's is up there.
Also, the 3DS's browser can still do somethings the Vita can't in regards to internet, like run some internet features without plug-ins.

Still though, you can't say one or the is better really, because the PS Vita does excell in some areas, but the 3DS does, as well.
A 3D screen, a second screen, 3D cameras, and SD card support is not really something you can update for PS Vita via software.

That's where the gimmick claim usually gets brought up. Some people don't care about said features, but then they become standard and the competitor has to give in, anyway.

Qwest

3DS Friend Code: 4253-3737-8064 | Nintendo Network ID: Children

Midnight3DS

3DS has some advantages, certainly. I chose it over Vita afterall.

3DS Friend Code: 5129-0855-7142 ID = Midnight

AC:NL Mayor Jambo, town of Hamneggs

shingi_70

Doesn't the Vita touchpad compensate for lack of R2L2 buttons?

WAT!

Hey check out my awesome new youtube channel shingi70 where I update weekly on the latest gaming and comic news form a level headed perspective.

3DS Friend Code: 3093-7342-3454 | Nintendo Network ID: shingi70

SCRAPPER392

Sony_70 wrote:

Doesn't the Vita touchpad compensate for lack of R2L2 buttons?

I suppose, but again, these features are up to the developers. Sometimes using more buttons just doesn't make sense.
The games that use the CPP and extra buttons are the only games I can think of that would benefit from that control style, anyway.
Kid Icarus: Uprising uses the CPP as a left handed option. I was expecting a dual analog option, honestly.
Any device can always do more control wise, but it has to make sense.

Qwest

3DS Friend Code: 4253-3737-8064 | Nintendo Network ID: Children

skywake

AlexSays wrote:

You're still fighting a point I never mentioned, and taking part in the NL tradition of calling everything a strawman - such a horribly misused word

Dude, you literally said that you weren't making a point against what people were saying but were instead taking their "ideology" to a ridiculous conclusion. That's literally what a strawman is, you using it frequently and people calling you out on it doesn't give you a licence to use it. I actually refrained from calling you out on it in my initial response if you must know.

I'm glad that you have basically taken back what you originally said even if it was a way to dodge the substance of my response. I can only attack your points directly and have you call them tangents that you don't care about for so long. Eventually, and I think this is already the case, this process of erosion will leave you with nothing to say

Edited on by skywake

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

AlexSays

Original assertion: Advancements in technology are responsible for more than just improvements in graphics. If the industry held the mindset of some people in this thread, and also understated the importance of increases in technology, aspects other than graphics would have progressed at a slower rate.

None of that have you disagreed with. lol. You are basically creating a debate with yourself because we haven't explicitly disagreed on anything.

You might as well carry on my half of the argument as well since I seem to be more of a bystander in this. lol

AlexSays

skywake

sigh

Nobody in this thread misunderstands the importance of technology in the video game industry. You also didn't say that graphics would have progressed slower you said that we would still be playing PONG if the industry followed the "ideology" of people in this thread. I never disagreed with your new point that processor performance plays a role, nobody in this thread has.

What I complained about was your false assertion that people were arguing for anything but performance improvements. I said no, that's bull, nobody is saying that, that's a strawman argument. I then went on to say what people were actually saying. That there are factors other than that that are equally as important. Some of them more important. That the performance of a console is simply a tool that devs can use to create gaming "art".

If you want to agree with that and pretend you never said the things I innitially responded to then fine. However please at the very least engage people's actual arguments in this debate instead of dodging the point and doing exactly what you are accusing me of. Ok? Good? Done. /thread

Edited on by skywake

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

AlexSays

1. People have said the new consoles only offer shinier versions of old games. That is misunderstanding the role of technology in video games.

2. You took the Pong crack 100% literally, awesome.

3. I still think you mistakingly believe I was talking about your debate with everyone else. Which would make sense considering you thought I was someone else. lol.I was referring to random comments in this thread, I had no intention of getting into a pointless, timeless debate with you or Scar, yet I seemingly failed to avoid that on both accounts. lol

4. I have never changed my stance on anything in this thread. If you'd like to believe so, but cannot quote my posts that contradict, I'll let you win this and /thread as I let Scar. lol. You both seem to share the same ability to be reasoned with.

Edited on by AlexSays

AlexSays

AlexSays

I'm also going to bed now, so when you write another wall of text about semantics, it's not because I am speechless. Though I very may well be when I wake up since this is already the longest debate I've ever had over nothing. lol

I will be looking forward to seeing my contradicting statements though!

AlexSays

OptometristLime

Untitled
Together we will weather this storm!
jk /escape

Edited on by OptometristLime

You are what you eat from your head to your feet.

skywake

@AlexSays
Again with something I never said. If someone should start quoting perhaps you should quote the bit where I claimed you were contradicting yourself or changing your stance. Also I haven't really made an argument about semantics in this thread since before this whole argument thing bubbled up (and no, telling you what a strawman is is not an argument about semantics, this thread is but our "debate" hasn't been). Maybe you should actually read my posts before getting angry about them

"lol"

[edit]
and if this thread was to actually debate something of substance, as trivial as this topic is, perhaps it should be instead about what makes a "next-gen" game not what makes a console "next-gen". Despite the rage from some about my wall of text on the previous page I think that was a pretty damn good point.

Edited on by skywake

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

banacheck

Personal i'm glad we have "choice* from 3 different companies, which have pushed the gaming industry in there own rights, and that has benefited our consoles. Otherwise consoles wouldn't be where thay are today, and believe or not some of these companies do respect each other, especially for what thay had done for the gaming industry.

Gaming against the world: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R75Gkteh318

This song represents the faction of gamers who are die hard gaming fanboys, be proud of it.

Edited on by banacheck

banacheck

Contrite

Anyone who doesn't think that the Wii U is of the next generation should look up the word generation.

And in any case, I consider the Wii U more next-gen than the other two consoles solely because it does something new. As in the controller. If I want to experience better graphics than I do currently, I would never buy a console for that purpose, I'd just upgrade my PC.

Contrite

element187

Lol, great thread. I can't believe I missed 4 pages of win while spending time with the wife.

We know the PS4 has a Radeon 7850 or similar because during the reveal back in February Sony had a bullet point mentioning the GPU is capable of 1,800,000,000,000 floating point operations per second, or 1.8 teraflops running at around 140 watts of power.

That slimey lawyer like tentacle, Don Mattrick, wouldn't give out how many flops, if it was even closely comparable to ps4 they would have announced it from the rooftops, instead they gave us the systems TPU at 100 watts (that wattage looks correct with all the devkits we saw of the system having a Radeon 7770) and a completely irrelevant number of transistors (sorry the number of transistors is a pretty laughable and pointless metric to give out)...

We do know all three systems are using very modern GPU's (AMD Radeon based GPU's) with just about similar feature sets - dx10.1 and dx11 specification (with Wii U and PS4 using the equivalent OpenGL 4.0) so there really isn't going to be any surprises here as far efficiency goes. So we can infact state that the 40 extra watts in the ps4 would lead to almost a 50% percent increase in processing power for the Sony system... (Lets be generous to spybox and say a few watts will be used to operate spy camera)

For comparisons sake the Wii U runs at 33 watts at peak (Iwata says it can handle 70 watts no problem) which roughly make the 100 watt Xbox 3x as powerful.

No we cannot compare these numbers to last generation wattages because GPU's keep getting fabbed smaller and smaller which allows the GPU to do more processing with less power aka efficiency.

We will have exact flop numbers on the Xbox come this fall when people start opening up the system, until then we go on the assumptions of the leaks on the dev kits (they have been 100% accurate here in the last 6 months on other components like memory sub system and the always connect kinect) which have the hardware nailed at 1.2 teraflops, and we know the power of that GPU is going to run at 85-90% of max effectively making it a 900 gigaflop GPU. That's exactly half the 1.8 teraflop number the ps4 can pull off.

I follow computer hardware closely because I have been building gaming PC's for my fathers business for at least 2 decades now, so I find all the technical discussions of the new consoles on the web fascinating.... We will know exact numbers when the ps4 and spybox are available to purchase, i really don't see either system being radically different from the latest dev kits. If the final hardware changes too much it could effect the performance and stability of games currently in development. And I'm sure EA and Ubisoft wouldn't appreciate this changing on them when they have millions of dollars invested into the development of these new boxes.

Edited on by element187

element187

skywake

Interesting! 7770 ~ 7870 is about mid-to-low-range new PC territory but is quite a huge leap from where the 360/PS3 were. For some perspective here's a benchmark of both of those cards running Tomb Raider:

Worth noting that console games are optimised BUT these guys overclock. So take it with a grain of salt... but it's probably about right. It's probably about the sweet spot for graphics cards right now. Enough to do a high textured, high effects version of pretty much any game from the end of the "last gen" at full 1080p and with stable 60fps probably attainable with optimisation. I don't think you could really ask for that much more than that. With a console setup.

Improving textures, improving effects, going for double the framerate to ~60 and doubling the resolution from 720 to 1080 for the PS4. Same but less shinies with the XBOne assuming they don't decide to lazy port games for PS4. The Wii U isn't as powerful and will only do textures, some minor extra effects and one of better resolution or framerate. In terms of GPU at least. So thems be where the battle lines are drawn!

Edited on by skywake

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

rallydefault

@skywake

A Radeon 7770 is not super shabby, to be honest. I would actually put it above middle tier, at least by a bit. As background, AMD and Nvidia are both sort of "holding the line" right now and are rumored to release their new line of GPUs sometime in the Fall. The AMD line (Radeons) currently doesn't go above the Radeon 7990, I believe, and that puppy is still going for around $900 most places. Granted, there is a bigger gap in performance between the 7770 and the 7990 than you may realize, but the 7770 is still nothing to sneeze at.

rallydefault

AlexSays

skywake wrote:

Again with something I never said. If someone should start quoting perhaps you should quote the bit where I claimed you were contradicting yourself or changing your stance.

ok

skywake wrote:

If you want to agree with that and pretend you never said the things I innitially responded to then fine.

So now I haven't shifted my stance to ignore anything? So we're back to not disagreeing on anything, though I'm sure you'll want to argue about it for another five or so pages. lol

This has not been very insightful, to say the least.

WaveBoy wrote:

C'mon you two, make kissy kissy or settle this out on the Pixel Playground.

I'm still not entirely sure what he's even going on about. lol. I'm pretty sure when he mistook me for someone else, he read my post as if it were attacking him, and now he's just too arrogant to give it up.

Skarwake, there's not much else I can do here. I provided the reasoning for my post, you agreed with my original assertion, yet you just continue ridicule me for posting it. I'm not sure what you'd like me to take away from this, other than if I don't post something you deem a contribution to the discussion, you're going to go on for ages about how its some great fallacy (what in particular, who knows since you won't quote it).

For the sake of time though I will let you have this. You have completely owned me for that thing you say I did wrong, and I looked like a total newb for posting that thing that was wrong about something. Now I'll let you get in your final remark about your superior intellect, how I cannot read, and how you're running away from this victorious. I imagine you'll even throw in a '/thread' or something, wouldn't that be nice. lol

You have a nice day now

Untitled

Edited on by AlexSays

AlexSays

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