Wii U Forum

Topic: What is next gen ?

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element187

101. Posted:

AlexSays wrote:

He can give his complex reasoning as to why its technically superior all he wants

All that matters is this

SCAR392 wrote:

The Wii U is not more powerful than X1 and PS4.

Linky

Therefore we shouldn't expect the Wii U to produce anything more impressive than we see on the other consoles, even according to Scar.

And I can agree to that

Anyone who will claim that the Wii U is on par with the PS360 is completely clueless about computer hardware.... Nintendo just showed a couple games at e3 that look visually superior to anything we saw on the ps360.

First off MK8 would be impossible to run on the ps360 because of the lighting and depth of field(bokeh) is far more advanced on the Wii U and the self shadowing and shading is far more advanced on the Wii U... But take those things away from the game and use the ancient feature set of the ps3/360 and lower the shadow quality, lighting, and use the primitive depth of field(bokeh) of the ps3/360 (have you seen bokeh on the ps360? It looks like someone smeared Vaseline on the camera lense) but lets take all of those effects and downgrade them to what the ps3 can handle, the system would absolutely choke on this game where it would be lucky to even play the game with the reduced effects at 25fps(hardly any games ran at 60fps on ps360 and the ones that did looked janky as all get out,I'm looking at you burnout paradise)

Meanwhile this game with Visually superior effects on the Wii U is running at 60fps even in splitsscreen WHILE rendering a second screen as well(gamepad).. I just can't see how anyone can say this system is on par with the ps360 (without trolling) when the ps360 would struggle mightily to even hold a playable frame rate with mk8. Just to run the game in 60fps puts it at 2.5x to 3x over the ps360's power. Add on its doing it splitscreen with a second screen as well, its even more impressive.

Judging this particular systems power based on ports is a fallacy. You will not find any third party that is going to spend any time on upgrading their game to take advantage of the hardware on Wii u with such a small user base. Criterion spent time with the hardware to push it just out of reach of the ps360... The game bombed which means it was a waste of time and money to upgrade the visuals. Other third parties saw criterion lose money on this game and so they would be hesitant to put in the extra effort that Criterion did. The only company that is going to push the system it looks like is Nintendo. 3rd parties may spend time upgrading visuals to put games on the spybox1 and ps4 because the opportunity is there to extract value for their effort, its just not there for the Nintendo console, sadly. So how can anyone judge this systems power based on ports? A game is only going to be as good as an effort a developer is willing to put into it.

Edited on by element187

element187

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AlexSays

102. Posted:

^ Nobody in this thread has said the Wii U is on par with the 360 or PS3.

The post of mine you are quoting is acknowledging the fact the Wii U is superior than last gen consoles, but doesn't measure up to the new consoles. Which is a continuation from discussions him and I have had in other threads.

AlexSays

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element187

103. Posted:

KAHN wrote:

Next Gen is about how technology has improved since the last generation. imho, WiiU is more powerful than PS3/360, but nowhere near powerful enough to be considered next-gen like the PS4/One.

I'm not understanding this.... The Wii U being 3x the power of the ps360 is only somewhat faster while the spybox1 is 3x faster than the Wii U makes omg so much faster its next gen.

The ps4 might be alot faster than the Wii U but the spybox isn't really very fast.... The ps4 has 1.8tflop GPU while the spybox has a 1.2tflop but the GPU is down clocked by 80% on the spybox... It's lucky to be pushing 900 gflops.

What ever speed advantage the spybox has over the Wii U is lost in the resolution jump to 1080p... Whatever spybox is going to do at 1080p the Wii U will be able to do at 720p....both the GPU of the spybox and Wii U are roughly from the same GPU generation (read the exact same feature set, dx11 on spybox vs OpenGL 4 in the WiiU) And that's ok, that's what the Wii U was designed to do. But lets not pretend that Microsoft's console is even close to the ps4, its not even half the power of the ps4. We aren't even talking about the memory which will push the ps4's ability even further out of reach of the spybox.

But if people are this much of a graphic lover why bother with the ps4 when you can upgrade your computers GPU to a GPU that 3x the speed of theps4 for less than $400.... With a Radeon 7970 you are easily going to surpass the the ps4 by a magnitude of 2.5x (4+ tflops) and even the slowest of desktop and laptop CPU's will absolutely crush the tablet CPU in the ps4.

Edited on by k8sMum

element187

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shingi_70

104. Posted:

^ brah people would take you more seriously if you didn't use terms like spybox. Its already been confirmed kinect is configurable.

Also you can tell power by how the ports are compared to the pS4/One versions.

WAT!

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skywake

105. Posted:

AlexSays wrote:

With some of the ideology in this thread, we would have been playing Pong for the past 20 years with just different control schemes.

Some of us want the advanced technology, not just a novelty factor. Nintendo fans consistently ignore the fact that hardware doesn't just dictate graphics. Advanced physics, AI, particle effects, and other technical aspects of games rely on this increased hardware. Making those aspects more available to developers opens up new gameplay opportunities.

Unfortunately some people see games with great graphics and think 'well that's the ONLY thing they have going for them'. Its similar to how people react when they see a really good looking woman, and assume because she's good looking, there's less of a chance of her also being intelligent.

Biased, ignorant approach either way.

Can I say one of your posts is a load of bull again because this is a load of bull. This is not what people have been arguing.

Using your women analogy, even though it does have a hint of the misogyny about it, maybe these "ignorant gamers" are looking for the "intelligence" in these "next gen" games directly. Maybe when sifting through the "next-gen" offerings from the PS4/XBone there hasn't been that much. It's all "good looks" and not much in the way of "conversation". Maybe instead the "ignorant" Nintendo gamer is after a different class of "woman". Yes?

Call me crazy but it wasn't horsepower that make games like Portal, The Last of Us, Bioshock memorable. It was talent in the art of making video games. Now if you're into that sort of experience and feel that Nintendo are one of the best studios for making games then the advance in power means very little. Simple /thread

Edited on by skywake

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element187

106. Posted:

Sony_70 wrote:

^ brah people would take you more seriously if you didn't use terms like spybox. Its already been confirmed kinect is configurable.

Also you can tell power by how the ports are compared to the pS4/One versions.

Sorry, kinect is required to be plugged in at all times. Do you really trust Microsoft enough if you "disable" kinect that its truly off? I don't. Have you seen the NSA leaks from this Snowden character? The PRISM program named Microsoft as a huge player in collecting data for the US government. I wouldn't put it past Microsoft to be in bed so deep with the government that they would accept money to allow government into these boxes. Why does the system REQUIRE kinect to be plugged in all times... This is horse pucky. There is ZERO justified reason for this box to require Kinect while playing Halo or even just navigating the menu.

Because you are willing to accept it doesn't mean others trust either government nor Microsoft even a little bit.

And no, ports on Sony/Microsoft will get the extra effort because there is money to be made. A company isn't going to put in effort if there isn't a bundle of cash waiting for the studio at the end of the rainbow... Some reason gamers think companies should want to lose money. No developer is going to put in even a little bit of effort on the Wii U after watching Criterion lose so much money on a port that easily surpasses the ps360 version by quite a bit. Why bother if they will be lucky to break even on the game just to port the game 'as is' with no extra effort? The Wii U will have nothing but lazy ports from third parties and they can point to NFSMW as the reason there is no benefit to putting in any extra effort beyond just getting the ps360 version to run stable.

Edited on by element187

element187

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AlexSays

107. Posted:

skywake wrote:

Can I say one of your posts is a load of bull again because this is a load of bull. This is not what people have been arguing.

I'd prefer you only say this to other people, actually. And I don't understand 'again'. What post of mine did you have issues with earlier? lol. Also a post that starts off with 'ideology in this thread' is not directly referencing the debate at hand, it is referencing the line of thinking people are using to form their stance.

Using your women analogy, even though it does have a hint of the misogyny about it, maybe these "ignorant gamers" are looking for the "intelligence" in these "next gen" games directly. Maybe when sifting through the "next-gen" offerings from the PS4/XBone there hasn't been that much. It's all "good looks" and not much in the way of "conversation". Maybe instead the "ignorant" Nintendo gamer is after a different class of "woman". Yes?

The point was that people criticize something because they are unaware of its existence. Examples of technology benefiting games in ways other than graphics are readily available. If people cannot see those for themselves, they are indeed ignorant. Now if people see those advancements yet prefer something else, that is great too. Not what I was talking about though.

Call me crazy but it wasn't horsepower that make games like Portal, The Last of Us, Bioshock memorable. It was talent in the art of making video games. Now if you're into that sort of experience and feel that Nintendo are one of the best studios for making games then the advance in power means very little. Simple /thread

Actually, power was quite a large part of The Last of Us. lol. If they had placed the game on the PS2, hardware restrictions would have hurt many aspects of what made the game so engaging. I have no idea what you're talking about here.

Edited on by AlexSays

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SCAR392

108. Posted:

I think @element187 explained what the Wii U is doing that's better than last gen which can be compared to 8th gen.
The only part I don't agree with is PS4 being stronger than Xbox One by alot.
Really, there's just so many differences between these machines, that it's pretty farfetched to expect exactly similar results on any of them on the same content.
Instead of arguing and trying to decipher specs, we should just wait until the other 8th gen consoles release, because we're gonna be full out speculating and predicting until we have 3rd party multiplats on every system that we can directly compare.

EDIT: I don't agree with that Xbox One is a spybox, either.

Edited on by SCAR392

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skywake

109. Posted:

@AlexSays
When I said "again" I made a mistake, at the time I thought you were the same person who was offended by me calling another post bull. Again in this thread not again to you. When you said "ideology in this thread" you didn't actually say anything. What exactly is the difference between "the line of thinking people are using to form their stance" and what is actually being said? Even if taken to mean something it at most comes across as an attempt to try and justify a strawman by literally announcing that you are about to create a stawman.

And now onto that strawman. Saying that a game like The Last of Us wouldn't have been the game it is on the PS2 misses the point entirely. Of course it wouldn't have been as good on the PS2, that's not what anyone is saying. My point was that the extra power the PS4/XBone have that the Wii U lacks would not have made those games dramatically better. I think a fairly strong case can be made for the argument that art, writing and even the introduction of hardware "gimmicks" have as much value in the advancement of gaming as power does.

AlexSays wrote:

Call me crazy but it wasn't horsepower that make games like Portal, The Last of Us, Bioshock memorable. It was talent in the art of making video games. Now if you're into that sort of experience and feel that Nintendo are one of the best studios for making games then the advance in power means very little. Simple /thread

Actually, power was quite a large part of The Last of Us. lol. If they had placed the game on the PS2, hardware restrictions would have hurt many aspects of what made the game so engaging. I have no idea what you're talking about here.

If Van Gogh had been able to use modern tech I don't think his art would have been that much better than it was. That's what I'm saying.

Edited on by skywake

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AlexSays

110. Posted:

skywake wrote:

When you said "ideology in this thread" you didn't actually say anything. What exactly is the difference between "the line of thinking people are using to form their stance" and what is actually being said? Even if taken to mean something it at most comes across as an attempt to try and justify a strawman by literally announcing that you are about to create a stawman.

If I didn't say anything, there would be nothing for you to refute. Explain that paradox. lol. Anyways, I said exactly what I said, the way some people think in here could inhibit the progress of video games. Be my guest and draw a greater meaning of that, imagine us having an argument in which you just yell something about men and straws, and contemplate the ending where we log off and see no differently. Let me know how that goes. lol

Saying that a game like The Last of Us wouldn't have been the game it is on the PS2 misses the point entirely. Of course it wouldn't have been as good on the PS2, that's not what anyone is saying. My point was that the extra power the PS4/XBone have that the Wii U lacks would not have made those games dramatically better. I think a fairly strong case can be made for the argument that art, writing and even the introduction of hardware "gimmicks" have as much value in the advancement of gaming as power does.

I don't care about your point, I care about my point which you agreed with. Technology enhances multiple aspects of a video game. My initial post referred to the industry and its entire existence, yet you're telling me how games wouldn't be dramatically different between the PS4 and Wii U. That's great, I don't care.

If you're going to ridicule my post, at least read it a couple times to make sure you know what you're refuting. At first I thought you misquoted me because this is such a tangent to my original point. I clearly said 'some of us don't want just a novelty factor'. Never did I say that had no value whatsoever, I was defending the understated importance of technology as a whole throughout the history of video games.

If Van Gogh had been able to use modern tech I don't think his art would have been that much better than it was. That's what I'm saying.

Van Gogh also wasn't a video game developer. There's a slight difference there with respect to dependence on technology.

Edited on by AlexSays

AlexSays

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Jaz007

111. Posted:

@SkyWake What about games designed to run on the power of the PS4 may indeed be a lesser experience on Wii U. The games you mentioned were designed to run on the power of PS360. Games will be taking advantage of the power of the PS4 and would suffer if they had to run on Wii U. Games are designed with the amount of power a console has in mind.

Currently playing: Torchlight 2 , Rune Factory 4, Dust: An Elysian Trail, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night and Uncharted 3.

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JGMR

112. Posted:

Gen 4...according to my "friends" at EA.

With kind regards,

JGMR

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SCAR392

113. Posted:

Jaz007 wrote:

Games will be taking advantage of the power of the PS4 and would suffer if they had to run on Wii U.

No one knows that, including you.

Let's not forget that these machines are built differently. Any assumption without all the consoles available is foolhardy.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/28/xbox-exec-comparing-co...

Edited on by SCAR392

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IAmNotWill

114. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

EDIT: I don't agree with that Xbox One is a spybox, either.

Lmao! Yeah we can definitely trust that camera. Totally not a spy box at all.

Wait a second! A Mazda ad? How do you know my car broke down, XBOX? You're not spying on me are you?

Oh, to "enhance the experience" you say? Microsoft, you sly dogs! ;)
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Edited on by IAmNotWill

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Jaz007

115. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

Jaz007 wrote:

Games will be taking advantage of the power of the PS4 and would suffer if they had to run on Wii U.

No one knows that, including you.

Let's not forget that these machines are built differently. Any assumption without all the consoles available is foolhardy.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/28/xbox-exec-comparing-co...

You expect a MS guy to say something else. Of course he's going to say that the PS4 power advantage doesn't matter. He would be a fool to say it would when he wants people to by the One. He is also talking about PS4 and the One. If he was comparing the One and Wii U he would be singing a different tune about power. He would tell you that the One's power will allow for richer experiences.

Edited on by Jaz007

Currently playing: Torchlight 2 , Rune Factory 4, Dust: An Elysian Trail, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night and Uncharted 3.

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AlexSays

116. Posted:

Scar we seriously need to work on the links you use to back your stance.

First you use a link with a Sony exec saying 'We want more profit' to show how Sony is doomed, and now you use a link with an Xbox exec saying to wait until we judge the consoles?

You've got to recognize how these don't help you. lol

AlexSays

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SCAR392

117. Posted:

Jaz007 wrote:

SCAR392 wrote:

Jaz007 wrote:

Games will be taking advantage of the power of the PS4 and would suffer if they had to run on Wii U.

No one knows that, including you.

Let's not forget that these machines are built differently. Any assumption without all the consoles available is foolhardy.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/28/xbox-exec-comparing-co...

You expect a MS guy to say something else. Of course he's going to say that the PS4 power advantage doesn't matter. He would be a fool to say it would when he wants people to by the One. He is also talking about PS4 and the One. If he was comparing the One and Wii U he would be singing a different tune about power. He would tell you that the One's power will allow for richer experiences.

Microsoft isn't going to lie about their console power. Sony never said PS4 is stronger. They have their fans do that for them.
Microsoft, and even Nintendo have been working on computer technology for years. Microsoft can look at every part of the PS4 and tell you exactly what it can do. Besides, the article is right on the money about PS4 having "off the shelf" parts.

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SCAR392

118. Posted:

AlexSays wrote:

Scar we seriously need to work on the links you use to back your stance.

First you use a link with a Sony exec saying 'We want more profit' to show how Sony is doomed, and now you use a link with an Xbox exec saying to wait until we judge the consoles?

You've got to recognize how these don't help you. lol

They do back my point. It's not my fault that you do not understand.

$¢@®³’²

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Jaz007

119. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

Jaz007 wrote:

SCAR392 wrote:

Jaz007 wrote:

Games will be taking advantage of the power of the PS4 and would suffer if they had to run on Wii U.

No one knows that, including you.

Let's not forget that these machines are built differently. Any assumption without all the consoles available is foolhardy.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/28/xbox-exec-comparing-co...

You expect a MS guy to say something else. Of course he's going to say that the PS4 power advantage doesn't matter. He would be a fool to say it would when he wants people to by the One. He is also talking about PS4 and the One. If he was comparing the One and Wii U he would be singing a different tune about power. He would tell you that the One's power will allow for richer experiences.

Microsoft isn't going to lie about their console power. Sony never said PS4 is stronger. They have their fans do that for them.
Microsoft, and even Nintendo have been working on computer technology for years. Microsoft can look at every part of the PS4 and tell you exactly what it can do. Besides, the article is right on the money about PS4 having "off the shelf" parts.

No, Sony had tech gurus say the PS4 is more powerful. You're also crazy if you think MS would admit the One's power disadvantage. It's just bad business to say a competitor for something better than you like that.

Currently playing: Torchlight 2 , Rune Factory 4, Dust: An Elysian Trail, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night and Uncharted 3.

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Reala

120. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

AlexSays wrote:

Scar we seriously need to work on the links you use to back your stance.

First you use a link with a Sony exec saying 'We want more profit' to show how Sony is doomed, and now you use a link with an Xbox exec saying to wait until we judge the consoles?

You've got to recognize how these don't help you. lol

They do back my point. It's not my fault that you do not understand.

Of course how could scar be wrong about anything, its clearly everyone else's fault for not following your logic :p

Edited on by Reala

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