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Topic: What does Nintendo have to lose by making the gamepad "optional"?

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ogo79

81. Posted:

they need to make it optional

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Csaw

82. Posted:

@blaisedinsd I don't think the solution to the underutilized gamepad is to remove it, but to start using it in creative ways. Would the Wii have caught on as well as it did if it wasn't for Wii Sports? Probably not. The gamepad needs a game that puts it to good use, something that makes everyone think it was a good idea.

Also you seem to be under the impression that so long as the majority of Wii U owners own gamepads that Nintendo will continue to support it. But thats not how that works since, as I stated with a Link Between Worlds, Nintendo isn't going to release games that are going to cut out a portion of their audience, no matter how small. So Nintendo and whatever third parties are left would lower support for the gamepad, which would discourage people from buying the "complete bundle" and just go for the "gimped bundle", which would discourage Nintendo and third parties from using the gamepad even more, which would discourage people from buying the "complete bundle" even more, so on and so forth.

Also you didn't acknowledge the second problem which is if Nintendo drops the gamepad, how are they going to differentiate themselves from the competition. Nintendo tried to have a traditional controller and great games during the gamecube era, and that didn't work out for them(and the gamecube was much cheaper and released during a time when we weren't in a severe recession). What makes you think it will be any different now?

Csaw

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skywake

83. Posted:

If the "Wii U Problem" is the fact that the average consumer doesn't understand what it is. That the average consumer walks past it and thinks that it's just a Wii accessory. How is that problem solved by killing the GamePad? If you kill the GamePad you create another SKU that makes the whole situation even more complicated. Now there's another product on the shelf.

Worse than that if you had a GamePad-less Wii U SKU then you then have to have the GamePad on the shelf. All of a sudden people are buying the GamePad thinking that it is the Wii U. Or people are buying multiple GamePads thinking that it's the Wii U Controller only to find out that it doesn't work like that. GamePad-less Wii U owners are then buying games that require the GamePad in some section without knowing. This solves the problem how exactly?

Edited on by skywake

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Super_Gravy

84. Posted:

@skywake: I kinda wish they did the E3 show. I think that is some of the reasons why there are confusing since average people don't go on Nintendo Direct and just watch it on TV.

Umm… Care to have some gravy?

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skywake

85. Posted:

@Super_Gravy
The average consumer, you know the one who thinks the Wii U is the GamePad, probably doesn't watch E3 either. They're probably just going by what's on the shelf at the shops.

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Artwark

86. Posted:

3DS 3D effect for the time was needed for most games like 3D Land. But now its completely optional and doesn't really do much when playing games with or without it.

The Gamepad however is a different story since its a controller rather than a slider so it has to make of a good amount of use. I don't see how people can feel annoyed seeing that you are buying the console with the gamepad and you have to use it inorder to play the game because they have the pad so why even complain it being too gimmicky?

Also do they sell the gamepad separately now?

Edited on by Artwark

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MAN1AC

87. Posted:

They'll revise the gamepad and make a cheaper version before they drop it.

Four more months until Bayonetta 2.

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Pod

88. Posted:

They have basically EVERYTHING to lose from making it optional.

Or at least, from making it anymore optional that it already is.

Not including it with the system would mean new adopters couldn't play the GamePad centric games released so far. The situation would be much worse than already.

The GamePad is not merely a controller. It's an integrated part of the system, and people are going to have to deal with that.

Pod

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gaming_24_7

89. Posted:

What is this discussion about?
The WiiU has launched a year ago together with the GamePad. There is no going back, because the GamePad and WiiU are connected and merged like Wii and Wii-Remote.
The GamePad is the face of the WiiU. There is not duty for the game developers to use the Screen or to use the Motion-Control and so on. So what's your point?

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Jazzer94

90. Posted:

I really don't think this a good idea as it would split the user base and the OS and several apps would have to be reworked. The real problem with the gamepad is that Nintendo hasn't made a game that gives the impression of a game changer interns of how Wii play and control games, Pikmin 3 and Nintendoland are the only games I own that I feel would be a lesser experience w/o the gamepad, Pikmin 3 uses it as a glorified map display which is great for an rts but by no means revolutionary in anyway (doesn't help that Pikmin 3 is the only rts on Wii U) and Nintendoland is essentially a kind of fleshed out minigame collection.

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blaisedinsd

91. Posted:

Csaw wrote:

@blaisedinsd I don't think the solution to the underutilized gamepad is to remove it, but to start using it in creative ways. Would the Wii have caught on as well as it did if it wasn't for Wii Sports? Probably not. The gamepad needs a game that puts it to good use, something that makes everyone think it was a good idea.

Also you seem to be under the impression that so long as the majority of Wii U owners own gamepads that Nintendo will continue to support it. But thats not how that works since, as I stated with a Link Between Worlds, Nintendo isn't going to release games that are going to cut out a portion of their audience, no matter how small. So Nintendo and whatever third parties are left would lower support for the gamepad, which would discourage people from buying the "complete bundle" and just go for the "gimped bundle", which would discourage Nintendo and third parties from using the gamepad even more, which would discourage people from buying the "complete bundle" even more, so on and so forth.

Also you didn't acknowledge the second problem which is if Nintendo drops the gamepad, how are they going to differentiate themselves from the competition. Nintendo tried to have a traditional controller and great games during the gamecube era, and that didn't work out for them(and the gamecube was much cheaper and released during a time when we weren't in a severe recession). What makes you think it will be any different now?

So they didn't make games for the balance board or wii motion plus did they?

All the rest of your post is once again assuming the gamepad is no longer part of the system and that would not be the case even if it became optional on the future.

blaisedinsd

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blaisedinsd

92. Posted:

Reading the rest of the posts they all seem to be fear related, that offering the option means the gamepad is gone.

I disagree. I am talking about patching the OS so everyone can use it without the gamepad. Nothing else needs to be reworked. Those little apps simply wouldn't be available without the gamepad. Everything would be seemless to the user whether they have a gamepad connected to the system or not.

The gamepad would still be the focus just as it was before.

The option would mainly be for people who just want to play smash and kart who are not interested in the gamepad.

I don't see why everyone assumes it would replace the gamepad as the standard. Don't you think if it did that it would prove the gamepad was negatively impacting the system?

Anyway this thread will get bumped in a few months when the bundle is released.

Edited on by blaisedinsd

blaisedinsd

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Beetlejuice

93. Posted:

This thread was done already in October. You won't change anyones mind with this one.

http://www.nintendolife.com/forums/wii-u/should_the_gamepad_b...

Beetlejuice

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DefHalan

94. Posted:

If Nintendo was only concerned about selling consolees and making money we would have seen a very different console from them. Nintendo wants to sell a new experience (the GamePad) Why would Nintendo throw in the towel (on their innovative controller) after 1 year, and when the competition just released?

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Donalp15

95. Posted:

skywake wrote:

tl;dr

Seriously though, there are way more negatives than positives:
Negatives:

  • The Wii U loses its built-in keyboard
  • It loses the easy menu navigation both in and outside of games
  • It loses off-TV play which is quite a draw in and of itself
  • It loses any game that relied on touch screen input from Murphy in Rayman Legends to Little Inferno
  • New users are no-longer creating art on MiiVerse
  • It loses any potential 3DS or DS support on the Virtual Console
  • Finding out what games work and what ones don't becomes a nightmare for new users
  • It loses one of its main differentiating features

Positives:

  • Either $30 less on the ticket price or a $30 higher margin....... maybe less if it's Wii Mote + Nun-chuck rather than Pro Controller

This there are much more negatives in comparison to the positives.

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blaisedinsd

96. Posted:

JohnRedcorn wrote:

This thread was done already in October. You won't change anyones mind with this one.

http://www.nintendolife.com/forums/wii-u/should_the_gamepad_b...

That thread is about abandoning the gamepad. I can tell people seem to think that is what this thread is about too but its not about that at all.

Interestingly that thread seems to have less opposition to that idea than I see in this one after looking over it briefly.

Don't you think givinging the option to enter your password with a controller, or changing system settings, or even some stuff with starting a game....wouldn't it be simply an added convenience to be able to do those things with out the gamepad? Is there any reasons these functions need to force us to use the gamepad? I do think it is more convenient in general, but does anyone like having to go fetch a different controller for these mundane tasks?

Overall doing that is an improvement to the user experience. Is anyone opposed to that?

If the console is then perfectly functional with out the gamepad there is plenty of games that could be enjoyed with out it. This would be appealing to some people. Whether or not they release a console bundle people can grab these second hand pretty cheap without a gamepad. I think they may as well sell them brand new like that too, but regardless there is no reason to require the gamepad for mundane tasks unneccesarily.

On the opposite end, they should also make the console not require the TV as well. In most cases it doesn't, but entering Wii mode seems still makes me use my TV for some annoying reason. Its the same principle though, the console is better if it is fully functional with either screen. Giving users options is the way to go.

The gamepad has had plenty of time to establish it self. Whether it's helped the console or hurt it is debatable, I think it does both depending on the person, but allowing the option to go without it is the only way to be sure it's not holding the console back. It's support is not going to get any better or worse whether or not 100% of console owners are forced to buy one (which then gives Nintendo a loss on the hardware sale). There are plenty of games on the console, including some major franchises on the way soon, that are going to be able to be enjoyed just fine without the gamepad and once again probably won't let you play multiplayer with the gamepad (what the heck is the reasoning behind that anyway mario games?). Clearly the only reason for Nintendo not to go this path, as has been articulated repeatedly by the detractors of this proposition, is the fear mongering of such a move killing the gamepad and it's future support and making the system more confusing. I don't buy those arguments at all. I think there are people who don't want the gamepad and would find the system more appealing without it. You release a bundle just for them, there is nothing wrong with giving your consumers choice.

I think the gamepad adds way more value to the system than kinect2 does for the xbone (although I haven't used kinect2 so take that for what it's worth). Does anyone think it would be a mistake for Microsoft to offer a xbone with out kinect2? I think its a foregone conclusion they will be doing exactly that this year. I think Nintendo will do it as well. I don't think either move means the gamepad or kinect2 are being abandoned. Giving your customers choices is not a bad thing, especially when that choice only stands to improve your profit margins on some hardware sales. Generally manufacturing improvements reduce cost and increase margins, but here is an oppurtunity to increase margins while reducing the entry cost....its a no-brainer and Nintendo would be foolish not to execute this strategy this year.

Edited on by blaisedinsd

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gaming_24_7

97. Posted:

What is your point? If you don't like the GamePad, you can stop using it. You don't need it to turn the console on and you don't need it to control the menu or games. It is as optional as you want it.

Edited on by gaming_24_7

gaming_24_7

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shingi_70

98. Posted:

gaming_24_7 wrote:

What is your point? If you don't like the GamePad, you can stop using it. You don't need it to turn the console on and you don't need it to control the menu or games. It is as optional as you want it.

Uh the game pad is needed to use both Miiverse and the eshop.

I'd say the gamepad is probably somewear near the bottom of the Wii U's issues.

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GuSolarFlare

99. Posted:

shingi_70 wrote:

gaming_24_7 wrote:

What is your point? If you don't like the GamePad, you can stop using it. You don't need it to turn the console on and you don't need it to control the menu or games. It is as optional as you want it.

Uh the game pad is needed to use both Miiverse and the eshop.

I'd say the gamepad is probably somewear near the bottom of the Wii U's issues.

the Miiverse is pretty pointless without a touchscreen, though..... I mean other than taking screenshots it's no better than the PC Miiverse without the touchscreen

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blaisedinsd

100. Posted:

gaming_24_7 wrote:

What is your point? If you don't like the GamePad, you can stop using it. You don't need it to turn the console on and you don't need it to control the menu or games. It is as optional as you want it.

I think I have said repeatedly that I love the Gamepad. I would absolutely buy it even if it was optional.

I do need it to log on to the console and that is annoying if i don' have it in my lap. Setting up Wifi or anything in system settings I have to grab it. Can't use the eshop with out it either. Can't start Wii mode with out it either, really lame because I have to go put the thing away or grab a different controller once I am in Wii mode.

If my gamepad is broken My console is basically worthless until I replace my gamepad (is it $150 to replace?).

Having the option is nothing but a benefit to Gamepad owners. Other people being able to use the console with out a gamepad doesn't hurt anyone either.

blaisedinsd

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