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Topic: What does Nintendo have to lose by making the gamepad "optional"?

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shaneoh

681. Posted:

skywake wrote:

wow, this is still going?
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Gamepad 4 Lyfe

shaneoh

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GuSilverFlame

682. Posted:

shaneoh wrote:

skywake wrote:

wow, this is still going?
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Gamepad 4 Lyfe

dual screens FTW
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Ryno

683. Posted:

After 35 pages I am now convinced, the GamePad should be optional.

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Spoony_Tech

684. Posted:

Ah but it is optional! Only took 35 huh. I was convinced after the first post! ;)

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shaneoh

685. Posted:

Ryno wrote:

After 35 pages I am now convinced, the GamePad should be optional.

I think we need to go another 35 to convince you otherwise

shaneoh

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AJ_Lethal

686. Posted:

Ryno wrote:

After 35 pages I am now convinced, the GamePad should be optional.

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GuSilverFlame

687. Posted:

here you go. what Helix Fossil say is law.
http://askhelixfossil.com/#smevgj

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blaisedinsd

688. Posted:

kyuubikid213 wrote:

I kept trying to find an opening to say somethng in this thread, but any point I would have made has already been said a thousand times. The thought of reworking the entire system to work with the Pro Controller is silly. And making a SKU without the GamePad would be equally ridiculous as future Nintendo titles will surely use this to their advantage as well as indies with unique ideas.

/thread

Games have moved toward this direction already. Take your battery out of your gamepad and you will probably be amazed how many games can be played with out the gamepad.

The system menu basically already works with out the gamepad. What I mean is that the parts that require the gamepad let you use buttons, so how hard would it be to allow these functions on the TV screen with pro controller buttons.

I think people would be surprised how much games you can play and what you can do with out the gamepad.

Take your gamepad battery out or simply just let the battery die and check if you can start games and play them without the Gamepad.

Games I have tested that require the gamepad for no good reason.
Lego City
Zombi U
Batman Arkham city (this one is silly because there are no GP versions on other consoles and when you use off tv play your basically playing in a way that would be perfectly fine on a TV with a pro controller)
(Launch Games, I believe Lego City was released within the "launch window")

Games that require the Gamepad because they are built around a 2 screen concept
Nintendoland
Game and Wario
Wii Party U (although there is tons of stuff that doesn't need the GP, I will have to test this one.)
(we don't know of other games coming that are like this, Miyamoto vaporware title is about it)

Games that are playable with out a gamepad using a pro controller (or other controller)
3d World
Wind Waker HD
NSMBU
NSLU
Pikmin 3 (maybe need to test)
Assasins Creed 3
(The major releases coming this year fall in to this category)

In conclusion early games on the system required the gamepad, often for no good reason, and pro controller support wasn't very strong.

Now we see all games pretty much not requiring the gamepad as well as all the future games not really needing it.

So why would all you people think everyone needs to be forced to buy the Gamepad? Don't you see how it inflates the cost of the console by around $100? Don't you think the Wii U could compete better with its growing games library if they could sell it for $200 that is incompatible with maybe 5 games? There is no killer apps that require the gamepad in the near future that any of us are aware of.

Game and Wario is such a cheap game because those talented people had trouble coming up with ideas to use the GP. Wario Ware smooth moves was a bull priced game that was all about the new gimmic of motion control.

Love your gamepads if you love them but brace yourself for it becoming optional. You are going to need it less and less, this is what we see happening. Sure you have some games that need it and off tv play is great and the touchscreen is convenient for some things and map and inventory second screen is nice but you are still going to have all that moving forward. Wii U has plenty to offer outside the gamepad, you should realize this as a Nintendo fan.

Offer this SKU and you have a situation where the Wii did well. Massive price advantage with backward compatibility with the best family friendly exclusives of any console. If you don't think a price drop to $200 when some of Wii U's biggest hitters come out you are simply not aware of how this business works.

They would'nt even need to patch games if they didn't want to bother. Just slap a label on the games "Requires Gamepad Controller". People will look at the game lineup and see which games require it. If the budget SKU does well it become a better idea to go ahead and patch some games to support the pro controller.

blaisedinsd

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AJ_Lethal

689. Posted:

blaisedinsd wrote:

So why would all you people think everyone needs to be forced to buy the Gamepad? Don't you see how it inflates the cost of the console by around $100? Don't you think the Wii U could compete better with its growing games library if they could sell it for $200 that is incompatible with maybe 5 games? There is no killer apps that require the gamepad in the near future that any of us are aware of.

Nope, it would be smacked hard by the PS360. Because they might be percieved as a better bang for the buck.

blaisedinsd wrote:

Game and Wario is such a cheap game because those talented people had trouble coming up with ideas to use the GP. Wario Ware smooth moves was a bull priced game that was all about the new gimmic of motion control.

I thought it was because it was cheap to make. Of course it might be true because a random bloke on the internet says so. (not)

blaisedinsd wrote:

Love your gamepads if you love them but brace yourself for it becoming optional. You are going to need it less and less, this is what we see happening. Sure you have some games that need it and off tv play is great and the touchscreen is convenient for some things and map and inventory second screen is nice but you are still going to have all that moving forward. Wii U has plenty to offer outside the gamepad, you should realize this as a Nintendo fan.

Only in your imagination, buddy.

blaisedinsd wrote:

Offer this SKU and you have a situation where the Wii did well. Massive price advantage with backward compatibility with the best family friendly exclusives of any console. If you don't think a price drop to $200 when some of Wii U's biggest hitters come out you are simply not aware of how this business works.

Wii did well because Wii Sports, it's killer app which went viral. EVERYBODY knew about the Wii (which is not the case with the Wii U)

Also lol at "not aware how the business works". Do you have any credentials to back your statement up?

Edited on by AJ_Lethal

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dumedum

690. Posted:

shingi_70 wrote:

I think the problem isn't that games don;t use it, but there aren't any games that actually need it other than Nintendoland

All the games listed needed the game pad and third party games even more (Zombi U, ME3, Arkham City, Little Inferno etc). You can play the game without the game pad. You can also play the game not in HD. Or without sound. Games can always be played without some of their most important features.

blaisedinsd wrote:

Batman Arkham city (this one is silly because there are no GP versions on other consoles and when you use off tv play your basically playing in a way that would be perfectly fine on a TV with a pro controller)

Which sucks terribly. It's great if you're going to the toilet, but I had no idea where I was going without the map on my lap.

Edited on by dumedum

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blaisedinsd

691. Posted:

AJ_Lethal wrote:

blaisedinsd wrote:

Yeah you just can't do it is not a valid counter argument

The I like the gamepad is not a valid argument.

That's all I have really seen and if you think that pokes holes in the idea of this being something that can boost wii u sales hw and sw then you just need to take off the blinders and put on your critical thinking cap.

You still have to tackle the issue of advertising or the lack of a killer app, which you willfully omit/dismiss to the background.

Chopping off the gamepad to an option (and patch/redesign a lot of crap) for a quick buck is not the solution; is just a temporary patch.

The killer apps for wii u won't require the gamepad. I am not sure how you can disagree. The big games aren't even teasing tiny gp features.

It might not be a quick buck anymore than a 2ds is a quick buck. Growing the software buying install base is what is needed for this console. A price drop and some excellent games. The gamepad can still exist and have software. A split user base has never been an issue.

blaisedinsd

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CaviarMeths

692. Posted:

And I'm back to just skimming this tome of self-parody.

Recap of last 5 pages:

  • In an act of desperation, blaisedinsd simply declares himself the winner of the discussion, because providing valid points is hard work, man.
  • Reaction gifs and lols.

Courage is the magic that turns durrr into reherrdurr.

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SCAR392

693. Posted:

@blaisedinsd
You just keep proving that this thread is pointless, because you never consider the reasons we have given you.

I've given you 2 100% reasons why it won't happen.

$¢@®³’²

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ZeroZX_Dev

694. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

@blaisedinsd
You just keep proving that this thread is pointless, because you never consider the reasons we have given you.

I've given you 2 100% reasons why it won't happen.

You're fueling a fire. Stop.

Edited on by ZeroZX_Dev

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SCAR392

695. Posted:

ZeroZX_Dev wrote:

SCAR392 wrote:

@blaisedinsd
You just keep proving that this thread is pointless, because you never consider the reasons we have given you.

I've given you 2 100% reasons why it won't happen.

You're fueling a fire.

It doesn't even matter. There's multiple reasons why it won't happen, and he won't accept any of them.

$¢@®³’²

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ZeroZX_Dev

696. Posted:

@SCAR392 I think at this point it's fair to say the OP is stubborn.
If you keep trying to debate with him, this topic will go on for like 1000 more pages.

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KennyPowers

697. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

@blaisedinsd
You just keep proving that this thread is pointless, because you never consider the reasons we have given you.

I've given you 2 100% reasons why it won't happen.

Reason 1: The Wii-U is like a value meal

Reason 2: The gamepad is the fries, and you can't just throw them away

KennyPowers

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CanisWolfred

698. Posted:

It's not a value meal if it doesn't have fries. Then it's just a burger and a drink, and it won't be as filling. Taking out the fries won't really save them money anyways (they make their money from the drinks, not the food, and Potatoes aren't that expensive regardless, last I checked), and people are gonna want the fries, whom are gonna be disappointed when they don't get it. I know I'd certainly just feel cheated if I went to McDonalds, ordered a Value meal, and didn't get any fries. I'd stop going to McDonalds and go to Burger King, where I can still get a good value for my money.

Wow, that analogy actually worked. :/

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kyuubikid213

699. Posted:

Deleted my last post in case anyone saw it...

I'm going to be very, very clear with you.

What you are suggesting is stupid. Plain and simple. Saying a certain game could use GamePad support if it wanted and making that an option to the consumer is a BAD IDEA. First off, there are a ton of GREAT Wii U games out now that benefit from the GamePad. Even games that don't use it as well as ZombiU, Batman, or Lego City (dunno why you said those had no good reason behind them because they work AMAZINGLY) only gain from GamePad integration.

Assassin's Creed IV has a larger map that you can zoom in and out of allowing you to find your way around the world more efficiently than constantly pausing the game.

Batman Arkham City makes menu navigation a breeze along with a quick way to equip items.

Lego City incorporates the GamePad as your own communicator. Same with ZombiU and your PalPad. These kinds of integration only allow for further immersion in a game. Something that playing with only the Pro Controller or a similar gamepad lacks severely.

Second off, this isn't something that's been added to the system three years down the line or something... This is the console's MAIN CONTROLLER. Your suggestion to nix the GamePad would be akin to Nintendo cutting Wiimote support after making the Classic Controller a stand-alone item during the Wii's life. Then when games come out that DO fully integrate the GamePad (which they will because Nintendo's not dropping the thing), those people will have to spend that extra $100 to be able to experience that. STUPID IDEA. And, as you would know, the GamePad adds SO MUCH MORE to the gameplay with the motion controls, camera, NFC, and touchscreen. The Pro Controller has NONE of that.

Third, where do you get this information that the GamePad isn't going to be supported down the line? We're a little over a year in. And, besides Donkey Kong, EVERY GAME HAS USED THE GAMEPAD FOR MORE THAN JUST OFFTV PLAY. Sure, this one game is the start of a trend. Nah, they're not going to implement the GamePad in Zelda U. It'll copy the past games in the Zelda franchise and NOT use the features of the hardware as thoroughly as they can. Because Wind Waker DIDN'T take advantage of the GameCube's hardware and make a massive world. Because Ocarina DIDN'T take advantage of the N64's 3D graphics. Because Skyward Sword DIDN'T use the Wiimotion Plus to it's fullest. Because Phantom Hourglass DIDN'T have that totally bad*** thing where you close the system to press the maps together or shout into the microphone... Nah, DKC:TF is the game that brings in the days of dropped GamePad support.

Fourth... Fourth... Look, I may as well be talking to a wall right now for as much as you're going to listen to me. This thread's been going on for 35 pages. If you can't see how...STUPID this idea is, there's really no point.

If the Wii U was still in development now and Nintendo sent out a poll asking if we wanted a touchscreen controller on the system or a standard gamepad, I'd go for the touchscreen because of all the possibilities shown already by the DS lineup and what a separate screen could do for the gaming experience as a whole. If we were talking about this then, I could see where you had a point, but now, it's a very silly argument to have. Especially when you ignore everyone else's take on the argument at hand.

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kyuubikid213

700. Posted:

shaneoh wrote:

skywake wrote:

wow, this is still going?
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Gamepad 4 Lyfe

I'm going to join you guys and sit back...

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