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Topic: What does Nintendo have to lose by making the gamepad "optional"?

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AJ_Lethal

621. Posted:

shaneoh wrote:

Untitled

This gif sums this thread up PERFECTLY.

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ZeroZX_Dev

622. Posted:

AJ_Lethal wrote:

shaneoh wrote:

Untitled

This gif sums this thread up PERFECTLY.

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GuSolarFlare

623. Posted:

ZeroZX_Dev wrote:

AJ_Lethal wrote:

shaneoh wrote:

Untitled

This gif sums this thread up PERFECTLY.

Thirded.

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SCAR392

624. Posted:

GuSilverFlame wrote:

ZeroZX_Dev wrote:

AJ_Lethal wrote:

shaneoh wrote:

Untitled

This gif sums this thread up PERFECTLY.

Thirded.

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$¢@®³’²

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blaisedinsd

625. Posted:

@skywake Thank you for this excellent post that helps move the discussion forward.

skywake wrote:

blaisedinsd wrote:

say why it being in reverse makes it a bad idea for Nintendo to consider. I have not seen that proper response.

You're kidding right? With Motion Plus they brought it out late in the console's life and tried to make it the new standard controller. You're suggesting that they should do the same but instead of adding features that can be used or even required for games they should take them away. Subtracting features instead of adding them. Not the same. Reversed. So to borrow your approach is this something can understand? If not then there is no point me responding to this thread again.

The GP features are not being taken away from Wii U by making a no GP option. Remember the discussion is asking about if Nintendo has anything to lose.
For someone who choses the 1 screen option on Wii U they are simply making a decision at purchase that those GP features and GP only games are not worth an extra $100 at the time. So while I agree with your statement I think it fails yet again to describe how this strategy is a bad move for Nintendo.

blaisedinsd wrote:

Well there is your problem The similarities in the analogy are its strength.

skywake wrote:

I'm not saying the GamePad is not like 3D because the GamePad is a GamePad and 3D is not. I'm saying it's not like 3D because 3D was never required and mechanically could never be required to play a game. I'm not saying that the GamePad is not like Kinect or Motion Plus because the GamePad is a Gamepad and the others are not. I'm saying that it's not like them because in those cases they did everything in their power to try and make those extra features standard rather than trying to make what was a standard feature non-standard.

So to again borrow your approach is this something can understand? If not then there is no point me responding to this thread again.

OK, yeah kinect become standard enough that its success led to kinect2 becoming a standard feature on Xbone, yet other than voice control why? While I agree with your statement I think it fails yet again to describe how this strategy is a bad move for Nintendo. Consumers may choose to give up features for the option of paying less, this is why cars are sold with different levels of trim. All the cars still drive, and all wii U play Wii U games with or with out the GP.

blaisedinsd wrote:

This is true, but what is it that requires any of that stuff? Separate view is used for niche games that will be incompatible. Touch is used for selecting things and I find that everything I can select with touch pretty much also allows me to use the GP buttons, so why can't the pro do that too on the TV? Motion control is used for various things but outside the niche titles Lego City uses it for a scanner something that has been done with buttons and something many would prefer to do with buttons (aiming with motion control or circle pad in 3DS games for instance, with 3D on you cant use motion well). The IR sensor would mean fit meters are not compatible with out a fitmeter you can still Play Wii FIt U and overall the gamepad stuff in Wii Fit U would be a compatibility issue. Wii Fit U is a niche title though so we will move on (it alway required add ons anyway). Overall there is nothing that core titles require the GP for that can't be done with a TV and procontroller. Do you agree?

skywake wrote:

No, I don't. Two things:
1. Wii Fit is not a niche title, on Wii it and its sequel sold ~20mill copies each. Not niche.
2. Analogue sticks aren't very good at drawing shapes on the screen

Than we just simply disagree. Wii Fit is a game that sells the balance board and it was successful, but its not going to become standard in Wii bundles or Wii U because it is a niche appeal type of device. Yes some games added support for it but was Punchout!! better using the balance board?
Yeah, but Wonderful 101 gives you that choice to draw with the analog doesnt it? Drawing on miiverse is a cool GP feature but does that mean we need to require the GP?

skywake wrote:

blaisedinsd wrote:

This is all fine and good for why the gamepad is cool and great and all but my point is simply that letting each Wii U adopter decide if those things we like about it are worth spending an extra $100 is the smart thing to do for the consoles profitability. If they don't value that stuff at $100 than they would likely value the Wii U more at $200 than $300.

If it's cool and great why remove it? The only person who agrees with you in this thread at this point is someone who thinks the GamePad is some sort of STD. A person who from all appearances seems to claim that they chuck a tantrum when asked to be Mario in Mario Chase. A person who from the sounds of it would be just as upset about the Pro Controller because that's not a WiiMote either.

Whether of not Nintendo has anything to lose with this strategy is one thing. Whether you like or hate the GP is another. If anything really think about this, how much of these 30 pages is people wanting to make this thread about whether or nor you like the GP. I think thats what you are doing. Your argument is essentially you think it's the bees knees so making it optional is a clear mistake. Thats a big frustration I keep having.

skywake wrote:

As for the price cut. Yes, this is the only advantage that you have managed to come up with. That's what it all boils down to. I don't think that that's enough to warrant all of the crap that comes along with stirring the pot that much. You break compatibility with big titles you insist are niche and you remove its one unique feature. All for a price cut to a console that's already the cheapest of its generation.

The price cut is the only reason it makes sense for Nintendo to do this (besides the convenience to Wii U owners that a software optional console is a better console). Yes it's a gimped bundle that plays less games and has less features I agree, but giving the consumers a choice is not bad.

Making this choice means going forward you may not be able to play other games and that you will miss other features. Yeah they didn't announce much compelling gp features yet again. As far as a prediction I have been saying it makes sense to this with Kart or Smash launches (this year).

Heck you can sell the current bundles with mario and zelda as $200 pro controller bundles, then make the $300 GP bundle have mario zelda and nintendoland.

Edited on by blaisedinsd

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skywake

626. Posted:

blaisedinsd wrote:

The GP features are not being taken away from Wii U by making a no GP option

They're being taken away from this SKU, I wasn't talking about all Wii Us. However you have already said that for your Gimp-SKU to work they would need to reduce the number of games that need it.

blaisedinsd wrote:

OK, yeah kinect become standard enough that its success led to kinect2 becoming a standard feature on Xbone, yet other than voice control why? While I agree with your statement I think it fails yet again to describe how this strategy is a bad move for Nintendo.

Well actually I wasn't talking about how it's a "bad move", I have done that enough already. I was explaining how I do understand what an analogy is and how your analogies were broken.

blaisedinsd wrote:

Than we just simply disagree. Wii Fit is a game that sells the balance board and it was successful, but its not going to become standard in Wii bundles or Wii U because it is a niche appeal type of device. Yes some games added support for it but was Punchout!! better using the balance board? Yeah, but Wonderful 101 gives you that choice to draw with the analog doesnt it? Drawing on miiverse is a cool GP feature but does that mean we need to require the GP?

Drawing with analogue sticks can go DIAF. And I wasn't saying that the Wii Balance board is something they should bundle in every Wii U now or that it was something that got widespread support. I was just saying that Wii Fit was hardly a "niche title". Not something that will get Wii owners to upgrade maybe but not niche.

blaisedinsd wrote:

Whether of not Nintendo has anything to lose with this strategy is one thing. Whether you like or hate the GP is another. If anything really think about this, how much of these 30 pages is people wanting to make this thread about whether or nor you like the GP. I think thats what you are doing. Your argument is essentially you think it's the bees knees so making it optional is a clear mistake. Thats a big frustration I keep having.

Yes, the fact that I think it's a good feature is central to my view that it shouldn't be extracted from the cheapest Wii U SKU. I happen to believe that you make money by delivering the best possible experience to your end user. Nintendo does this at this stage by being stable, pushing their best ideas, giving people their best hardware and delivering great content. They don't do it by cutting a major feature that we both apparently agree is fantastic in a panic.

blaisedinsd wrote:

The price cut is the only reason it makes sense for Nintendo to do this (besides the convenience to Wii U owners that a software optional console is a better console). Yes it's a gimped bundle that plays less games and has less features I agree, but giving the consumers a choice is not bad.

What more can I say? /thread

SCAR392 wrote:

GuSilverFlame wrote:

ZeroZX_Dev wrote:

AJ_Lethal wrote:

shaneoh wrote:

Untitled

This gif sums this thread up PERFECTLY.

Thirded.

fourth-ed

Fifthed

6th

Edited on by skywake

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blaisedinsd

627. Posted:

@skywake

So basically you are making the point that the Gamepad is such a great feature that removing it from a SKU is so detrimental to the console that it's just not worth doing.

That's fine, you think the gp is great and should be a part of every console. This was Nintendos reasoning basically for including it.

I aslo love the GP as well. But am thinking about this idea as a strategy to boost wii u.

I simply think they have failed to make it necessary to the console and they need to reduce cost. This is the only way I see for them to do it.

THe games we seen coming are not relying on the Gp

blaisedinsd

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skywake

628. Posted:

blaisedinsd wrote:

So basically you are making the point that the Gamepad is such a great feature that removing it from a SKU is so detrimental to the console that it's just not worth doing.

Yes

blaisedinsd wrote:

That's fine, you think the gp is great and should be a part of every console. This was Nintendos reasoning basically for including it.

Then I'm in good company

blaisedinsd wrote:

I simply think they have failed to make it necessary to the console and they need to reduce cost. This is the only way I see for them to do it.

I don't think it'd boost sales, that's the thing. The Wii U isn't selling poorly simply because of price, it's selling poorly because there isn't enough compelling software for the mass market. The one game that they have had launched alongside the launch of two brand new consoles.

You don't make the thing an easier sell by removing features and software support. Price is not the issue.

blaisedinsd wrote:

THe games we seen coming are not relying on the Gp

In early 2008 the notable games that were "coming" for the Wii that we knew about were Smash Bros, Mario Kart and Wii Fit. None of them relied on the WiiMote's pointer functionality. Two of them could be played without the WiiMote entirely. Obviously in 2008 it made sense for Nintendo to drop the WiiMote entirely because they were out of ideas.

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SpookyMeths

629. Posted:

$300 for a PS3 that's bundled with a game and 12 months of PS Plus is still a good value in 2014 because the PS3 has a fantastic software library and great features. That console is 8 years old this year.

Price is simply not the issue. Value is. Nintendo just needs to work on increasing the value without cutting the price. Removing features and items from the box devalues the product. To win people over, they're going to need this QoL stuff for the casuals, Zelda and Smash and Metroid and whatever for the dedicated fanbase, and a unified account system and 3rd party support for the hardcore gamers.

Nintendo has always been great with software bundles. It allows them to hit a wide variety of demographics without cutting the price or removing features. Bundles would still work for them now if only they had the software to back up the hardware. Really, they should just do a bundle with every major game release. There should be a Donkey Kong bundle, a Mario Kart bundle, a Smash bundle, even an X bundle.

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CanisWolfred

630. Posted:

CaviarMeths wrote:

even an X bundle.

I would feel like the biggest Donkey in the world if they did that. :P but I'd still get it

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RancidVomit86

631. Posted:

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blaisedinsd

632. Posted:

@skywake

skywake wrote:

blaisedinsd wrote:

I simply think they have failed to make it necessary to the console and they need to reduce cost. This is the only way I see for them to do it.

I don't think it'd boost sales, that's the thing. The Wii U isn't selling poorly simply because of price, it's selling poorly because there isn't enough compelling software for the mass market. The one game that they have had launched alongside the launch of two brand new consoles.

We will just have to agree to disagree. As I said, when buying a Wii U for my nephew for his bday I think I would choose the cheaper sku because the console would go in his room, the GP is expensive and he is not very good at taking care of things. If I wan't another Wii U for my bedroom I would prefer the cheaper SKU. There are simply use cases where the gamepad is overkill. There is so much great content you don't need it for, heck NSMBU you can 't even use it in multi-player and this confused my nephew.

skywake wrote:

You don't make the thing an easier sell by removing features and software support. Price is not the issue.

You know I disagree. Price is always the issue. Look at 3DS launch. They cut the price and released lots of games. Wii U needs the same type of boost and they need to do both lower the price and release lots of great games. The most expensive Nintendo console ever selling worse than any Nintendo console ever and price is not the issue?

skywak wrote:

blaisedinsd wrote:

THe games we seen coming are not relying on the Gp

In early 2008 the notable games that were "coming" for the Wii that we knew about were Smash Bros, Mario Kart and Wii Fit. None of them relied on the WiiMote's pointer functionality. Two of them could be played without the WiiMote entirely. Obviously in 2008 it made sense for Nintendo to drop the WiiMote entirely because they were out of ideas.

This is'nt really relevant. Beside Kart was marketed with the motion control wii wheel.The difference is the gamepad costs so much and is not necessary. THe wiimote costs the same as any controller.

blaisedinsd

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blaisedinsd

633. Posted:

CaviarMeths wrote:

$300 for a PS3 that's bundled with a game and 12 months of PS Plus is still a good value in 2014 because the PS3 has a fantastic software library and great features. That console is 8 years old this year.

Price is simply not the issue. Value is. Nintendo just needs to work on increasing the value without cutting the price. Removing features and items from the box devalues the product. To win people over, they're going to need this QoL stuff for the casuals, Zelda and Smash and Metroid and whatever for the dedicated fanbase, and a unified account system and 3rd party support for the hardcore gamers.

Nintendo has always been great with software bundles. It allows them to hit a wide variety of demographics without cutting the price or removing features. Bundles would still work for them now if only they had the software to back up the hardware. Really, they should just do a bundle with every major game release. There should be a Donkey Kong bundle, a Mario Kart bundle, a Smash bundle, even an X bundle.

People were used to paying $200 for Wii for a long time. It sold well at that price after the motion fad had died down.

Of course price is the issue. 3DS wouldn't have been saved just by games, they had to cut the price too. A HW bundle to target non-shared television fits right in with what you are saying.

A $200 barebone HD Wii with BC is a great value for the people who played a bunch of Wii games.

blaisedinsd

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Spoony_Tech

634. Posted:

I stopped looking in here at page 15. Can't believe this is at page 32. Go play games the hobby you love and get off the net for a week or so! Clear off some backlog or something.

Edited on by Spoony_Tech

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MAB

635. Posted:

Spoony_Tech wrote:

I stopped looking in here at page 15. Can't believe this is at page 32. Go play games the hobby you love and get of the net for a week or so! Clear off some backlog or something.

This is an easy achievement for the rest of us but heavens forbid that the OP might need to use the Gamepad to play some games... It would be a painful experience for him to undertake I tells ya ;)

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RoryLee

636. Posted:

I'm just wondering if he's using the Gamepad to post on this thread?

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GuSolarFlare

637. Posted:

RoryLee wrote:

I'm just wondering if he's using the Gamepad to post on this thread?

loooool I think he is! :p

Edited on by GuSolarFlare

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blaisedinsd

638. Posted:

RoryLee wrote:

I'm just wondering if he's using the Gamepad to post on this thread?

I tried but text entry is not that easy as with a key board or an iphone.

But anyway I feel I have made vastly superior arguments as whey this makes sense and the arguments against tend to not really address why it would be bad for business to do this. No one can predict Nitnendo and this is my first time trying so we will see. Kart or Smash I think.

TIme for me to drop the bomb too, I have been suffering from mania and this topic became an obsession.... I am feeling better now and still think im right though. But at least I should not be as obsessed.

blaisedinsd

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AJ_Lethal

639. Posted:

blaisedinsd wrote:

But anyway I feel I have made vastly superior arguments as whey this makes sense and the arguments against tend to not really address why it would be bad for business to do this. No one can predict Nitnendo and this is my first time trying so we will see. Kart or Smash I think.

TIme for me to drop the bomb too, I have been suffering from mania and this topic became an obsession.... I am feeling better now and still think im right though. But at least I should not be as obsessed.

The fact this thread is going by the 32th page is not because you're right: it's because you can't deal with the fact 70% of the people in here disagrees with you.

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RoryLee

640. Posted:

blaisedinsd wrote:

RoryLee wrote:

I'm just wondering if he's using the Gamepad to post on this thread?

I tried but text entry is not that easy as with a key board or an iphone.

But anyway I feel I have made vastly superior arguments as whey this makes sense and the arguments against tend to not really address why it would be bad for business to do this. No one can predict Nitnendo and this is my first time trying so we will see. Kart or Smash I think.

TIme for me to drop the bomb too, I have been suffering from mania and this topic became an obsession.... I am feeling better now and still think im right though. But at least I should not be as obsessed.

Sorry. I didn't even read anything in this thread. Just came in to make a snotty comment and was mostly agreeing with Tech about enjoying gaming instead of arguing over what could've, or should have been.

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