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Topic: What does Nintendo have to lose by making the gamepad "optional"?

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skywake

581. Posted:

Okami

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RancidVomit86

582. Posted:

MAB wrote:

RancidVomit86 wrote:

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So we can make this start ;)

Don't tease me like that.

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Knux

583. Posted:

Absolutely nothing.

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blaisedinsd

584. Posted:

Clearly i have been thinking about this too much. Just ignore this thread if it's not interesting and I will keep all my ranting about this contained to this thread.

-the gp is say $100. Nintendo would do better to let the consumer decide if the gp is worth $100 to them. Gp optional allows this choice.

  • their is profit in selling pro controllers and there is no profit in selling gp
  • pro controller support has been growing. They added it to many things including miiverse, Nes remix, nsmbu
  • the pro controller is a gp with no touchscreen basically. For most games off tv play involves using your gp as a pro controller. It's easy to make this equivalent- off tv play = pro controller with a tv
  • gp optional means off tv play, by far the best feature of the gp, is more universally supported

I see this as a win win win scenario and do not see the merit of the opposing viewpoint. I understand the negative reaction to the idea, but I feel if you consider it logically you can see how it's a win win. If we consider the objections in depth such as the dropping of software support we can see how the fears can easily become strengths.

I don't think Nintendo has ever had a problem supporting optional accessories. Making the gp required at launch is probably the only way of making the gp relevant. I don't think if it launched as optional for $100 that it would have sold well. They got it in our hands and now some of see the value and love it. Thank you Nintendo for giving us such a great feature in the only wAy it could succeed. It's time to realize though that system selling games don't need it and offering access to those games for $100 less makes sense. Now is the time to let people choose whether or not they value the gp at $100. It makes no sense that eBay sell gp for more than they sell wii u console. It makes no sense to require a gp for things where the gp lets you use buttons. The pro controller should be more supported and since it's more profitable this makes sense. Pro controller is $50 and gp is $100 and make the system functional with the pro and the gp becomes a better value (why not pay an extra $50 for all these great features?). The idea makes sense from a business perspective and I think it benefits gp owners as well and it's something Nintendo absolutely should do to increase value and lower cost at the same time when a big game drops. This is a sound strategy to boost wii u and makes more sense than stubbornly trying to make people like the gp more.

It makes sense on so many levels and it makes more sense than the fears that oppose the idea.

Edited on by blaisedinsd

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BusterRed123

585. Posted:

Why would you want it optional in the first place?

Hhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii.

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blaisedinsd

586. Posted:

NintendoXtreme1 wrote:

Why would you want it optional in the first place?

Because it makes the Wii U better, allows a lower cost of entry to to Wii U software, and if my GP breaks I don't have to spend a bunch to replace it if I don't want to

Off TV play is my favorite feature and it stands to become more prevalent if the GP is optional and that benefits me. I wish Lego City and Zombi U supported Off tv play, if gp was optional when they were developed they likely would have added this option and those games would be better for me if I can choose the one screen button experience (off tv or with a pro and a TV) as well as the way they currently play.

If this Nintendo Direct happens like this you will not be upset whether or not you understand why they are doing it:

1. Iwata explains the situation of wii u not being as successful as
they had hoped.

2. He talks about the appeal of the gamepad and off tv play and
emphasizes the best gamepad centered experiences we have had on the
console. He tells us they are committed to developing more software
centered around the unique features of the gamepad and maybe even
teases a concept.

3. He then begins to talk about the great games on the way. He then
drops the bomb: they have realized that these games do not directly
benefit from the unique features of the gamepad and in an effort to
get these games to the widest audience of people they have decided to
release a version of the wii u that does not include the gamepad. The
software just works at this point with a procontroller after the
summer update and they announce this bundle will come with a pro
controller and sell for $199.99 with a patched version of 3D world. The gamepad will be available for $100 bundles with Nintendoland. He
assures those people who may panic that off tv play will be a feature
available on all software not designed to take advantage of the second
screen.

4. He tells us which games won't be patched and will not be playable
with out the gamepad.

5. As a gesture he announces all upgrade pricing paid on virtual
console will be refunded to current Wii U owners and future titles will become automatically
available on wii u and 3ds based on your Nintendo network id and
availability. In the future they may charge upgrade pricing on future
consoles.

6. He talks about the potential consumers who may see value in a Wii U with no GP. You can play mario kart 8 in your room for $200!

They would have nothing to lose by doing this and it hurts no one.

Edited on by blaisedinsd

blaisedinsd

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blaisedinsd

587. Posted:

@skywake

Yes, yes, Skyward Sword etc. Again, you do you realise that by the time Skyward Sword came out you basically couldn't buy a Wii or even a WiiMote without getting Motion Plus? It's really not the same as your Gimp-SKU which tries to do the reverse. Basically what you're saying is that they should have launched with Motion Plus and then taken it out of the basic Wii SKU just before Skyward Sword launched. No, just no. Idiotic.

If motion plus was an expensive gimmic included at launch that was only required for a handful of games it would not be idiotic to release a cheaper alternative that worked with the large majority of games. If you had to pay $100 for motionplus with your lauch console you may be upset if it became optional, but for Nintendo it would make sense to let people play twilight princess with the cheaper option because that helps it sell more. Skyward sword would require the $100 add on but it makes no sense to require even people who don't want the enhanced motion plus feature to pay that extra $100, maybe they just want to play twilight princess.

As far as timing we are considering that they do this when games that don't need the GP are going to launch. Yes it would not make sense to do this when Miyamotos masterpiece launches. GP bundles with that game make sense when that launches. But no GP bundles make sense to launch with Mario Kart 8 or Smash Bros..

I understand that it is not exactly the same thing. Motion plus was an enhancement to the motion controls that became the standard and it's confusing to think of a standard feature then becoming optional. But from a business sense it is the right move for Nintendo if the gimmic/add on/peripheral becomes optional if it is expensive and not neccessary for a large library of games. 3D was an expensive gimmic. The screen was expensive to make and they lost a patent law suit that makes them pay someone every time they sell a 3D screen. The 2DS is their answer because it is cheaper to make and provides access to 3DS games they want to sell. Consumers can now choose if 3D is worth an extra $40 or whatever it is. WIth the Wii U it makes sense the same way in that the GP gimmic is expensive. Making it optional is an answer because if provides access to MOST (yes thats a difference but my point is the similarity) Wii U games they want to sell and it lest consumers choose if the GP is worth the extra $100.

Does that make sense to you?

Edited on by blaisedinsd

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Mahe

588. Posted:

Also, what's different about the Motionplus is that it could be integrated into existing controllers. First, it came as the Motionplus add-ons which would make any Wii Remote in existence a Motionplus controller - and you got one included with one of the hottest games of the generation, Wii Sports Resort!

Then, it was integrated fully into the controller, updating the standard Wiimotes into Wii Remote Pluses - the same form factor, the same controller, works in all the old games, except now it also works in all the Motionplus games as well! AND you could combine Wiimote Pluses with old Wiimotes that had Motionplus add-ons for multiplayer sessions!

Compared to the Motionplus, the Gamepad is a completely alien controller. It's totally different from the Wiimote, and often it's an either/or situation: the Gamepad and the Wiimote exclude each other because they control differently. Nintendo even went to lengths to enforce this: you can't play New Super Mario Bros. U or New Super Luigi U with both a Wiimote and Gamepad. You either play single or multiplayer with Wiimotes, or you play single-player with a Gamepad (the inane boost mode does not count as playing).

In Nintendoland's Zelda Battle Quest, you either play with the awesomeness of Wiimotes in Sword Mode, or you play with the sucky Gamepad in Archery Mode. In multiplayer, nobody wants to play as the archer, because everybody wants to play as the swordsmen with Wiimotes. Even so, the Gamepad is forced upon one unlucky player, reducing the appeal of the multiplayer mode.

Edited on by Mahe

Mahe

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skywake

589. Posted:

@blaisedinsd @Mahe
This is why everyone has been repeating ad-nauseam to you guys in this thread that Motion Plus (and Kinect and ROB and 3D and etc, etc) was not the same as this suggestion. So to finally see you guys say things like this:

Mahe wrote:

Then, it was integrated fully into the controller, updating the standard Wiimotes into Wii Remote Pluses - the same form factor, the same controller, works in all the old games, except now it also works in all the Motionplus games as well! AND you could combine Wiimote Pluses with old Wiimotes that had Motionplus add-ons for multiplayer sessions!

Is progress.

When I said that the GamePad is like Motion Plus bundled in the box at launch and you're talking about pulling it out just before the Wii Sports Resort or Skyward Sword I really do mean that. The GamePad has all of the inputs of the Pro Controller and so will work with any game that supports it. Plus it's the default controller so it kinda has to work with every game whether they use all of its features or not. And again

blaisedinsd wrote:

Making it optional is an answer because if provides access to MOST (yes thats a difference but my point is the similarity) Wii U games they want to sell

The acknowledgement of this is welcome after 30 pages

Lastly, @Mahe, the thing about that one minigame in Nintendo Land where nobody wants to use the GamePad. From my memory of the last time I put Nintendo Land on and played something other than Mario Chase you've picked the one and only minigame where that may be the case. Mario Chase in particular everyone feels like they're having about the same amount of fun... just that the chasers are shouting out where Mario is and Mario is pulling faces on the camera....

Edited on by skywake

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Captain_Toad

590. Posted:

Then I'll leave with one final note. If it were about cost, than a cheaper model of the WiiU (The basic) would've sold more than the other one that's $50 more (The Deluxe) would've sold more. Funny how that turned out. http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2013/0%3Cbr%20/%3E8/satoru_i...

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PrincessSugoi

591. Posted:

I can't believe this thread is still going.

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blaisedinsd

592. Posted:

Mahe wrote:

Also, what's different about the Motionplus is that it could be integrated into existing controllers. First, it came as the Motionplus add-ons which would make any Wii Remote in existence a Motionplus controller - and you got one included with one of the hottest games of the generation, Wii Sports Resort!

Then, it was integrated fully into the controller, updating the standard Wiimotes into Wii Remote Pluses - the same form factor, the same controller, works in all the old games, except now it also works in all the Motionplus games as well! AND you could combine Wiimote Pluses with old Wiimotes that had Motionplus add-ons for multiplayer sessions!

Compared to the Motionplus, the Gamepad is a completely alien controller. It's totally different from the Wiimote, and often it's an either/or situation: the Gamepad and the Wiimote exclude each other because they control differently. Nintendo even went to lengths to enforce this: you can't play New Super Mario Bros. U or New Super Luigi U with both a Wiimote and Gamepad. You either play single or multiplayer with Wiimotes, or you play single-player with a Gamepad (the inane boost mode does not count as playing).

In Nintendoland's Zelda Battle Quest, you either play with the awesomeness of Wiimotes in Sword Mode, or you play with the sucky Gamepad in Archery Mode. In multiplayer, nobody wants to play as the archer, because everybody wants to play as the swordsmen with Wiimotes. Even so, the Gamepad is forced upon one unlucky player, reducing the appeal of the multiplayer mode.

I see lots of opinion and statements. Not sure what the point is

Is this supposes to be saying gp optional is a bad idea because of something? I don't see it saying that at all

Nsmbu not letting you use gp in multiplayer seems silly. Yeah boost mode, but why can't 2 people play if you add one other controller? 3d world does the opposite and forces you to use the gp if you do 4 players but you can do 3 with out it. It doesn't make sense to me. That's two examples that show in my mind the gp controller confuses even Nintendo about what to do with it.

I have kids fighting over the archer in battle quest too. Motion plus requires me to upgrade to play. I got one add on with wii sports resort. I got one built so I had 2 and more than 4 controllers. I got a third with wii party u. I still can't plat max players on Nintendoland with out upgrading one more.

If your point is these things make gp optional bad I think you failed to make that point. You just talked about motion plus but didn't say how this makes gp optional a bad idea.

blaisedinsd

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blaisedinsd

593. Posted:

@skywake

Hopefully we can discuss how these things actually matter. Do they make gp optional a bad idea?

skywake wrote:

This is why everyone has been repeating ad-nauseam to you guys in this thread that Motion Plus (and Kinect and ROB and 3D and etc, etc) was not the same as this suggestion. So to finally see you guys say things like this:

Mahe wrote:

Then, it was integrated fully into the controller, updating the standard Wiimotes into Wii Remote Pluses - the same form factor, the same controller, works in all the old games, except now it also works in all the Motionplus games as well! AND you could combine Wiimote Pluses with old Wiimotes that had Motionplus add-ons for multiplayer sessions!

Is progress.

Progress in what way? It's just the maddening behavior of ignoring the point of the analogy (the similarities) that I am making in order to needlessly point out the differences. This is nothing more than missing the point of the analogy.

These differences do not invalidate the analogy in any meaningful way. If there weren't differences it wouldn't be an analogy. I have acknowledged it's not exactly the same, if it was it wouldn't be an analogy.

This is maddening. I guess I just have to stop using analogies since there is a demonstration of a lack of comprehension of their usefulness in communicating ideas in this thread.

skywake wrote:

When I said that the GamePad is like Motion Plus bundled in the box at launch and you're talking about pulling it out just before the Wii Sports Resort or Skyward Sword I really do mean that. The GamePad has all of the inputs of the Pro Controller and so will work with any game that supports it. Plus it's the default controller so it kinda has to work with every game whether they use all of its features or not. And again

blaisedinsd wrote:

Making it optional is an answer because if provides access to MOST (yes thats a difference but my point is the similarity) Wii U games they want to sell

The acknowledgement of this is welcome after 30 pages

I have acknowledge this just fine. You just also fail to understand the point I am making when I try to use an analogy.

We will just have to disagree, the gp version of skyward sword is not about to come out. Dk, kart, and hopefully smash are all about to come out this year. The gp has some quick boot feature coming, Ds vc content, and miyamoto is just beginning to develop a gp game that will probably take awhile. If Nintendo stays in the hw business because they like that control it makes sense for them to release a hw that plays the games coming out this year. When miyamoto a masterpiece comes it makes sense to release a bundle with a gp and that game.

The gp has been the default controller. Gp optional just means the pro controller is becoming on equal footing with it. Pro support has increased. They just need to let us do the same thing they let us do on the gp already, use the buttons. Let me know what you can't do on the gp without buttons. If you can do it with buttons on the gp why can't you do it on the tv with the buttons on your pro controller?

If they allow button control with the gp and add the pro they may as well support the classic too. The only difference is the classic doesn't have clickable sticks.

skywake wrote:

Lastly, @Mahe, the thing about that one minigame in Nintendo Land where nobody wants to use the GamePad. From my memory of the last time I put Nintendo Land on and played something other than Mario Chase you've picked the one and only minigame where that may be the case. Mario Chase in particular everyone feels like they're having about the same amount of fun... just that the chasers are shouting out where Mario is and Mario is pulling faces on the camera....

See my household people take turns with the gp. It's fun playing either side in all those games. Different opinions on the usefulness and fun of the gp are fine.

blaisedinsd

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blaisedinsd

594. Posted:

@kksliser5552000

kkslider5552000 wrote:

Also, unless it's as cheap as the 3DS, I fail to see how the lower price point would suddenly make the biggest difference.

If they offer the wii u with no gp it seems like they could offer it for the same price as a 3ds Xl. $200

The gp does not have a wii sports. Nintendoland was supposed to be that and the multiplayer was great but the single player wasn't too great. Off tv play is the best feature and it's not important to everyone. Shoehorned gp features have also failed to be too compelling. Yeah maybe watchdogs will do some second screen gp stuff but it will also be a single screen game and the second screen features may not be compelling enough for someone to even wait a month for the wii I version when they can play it elsewhere.

Xbone is $500, Ps4 is $400, wii u is $300

I think wii u has the best games. If wii u is $200 and $300 it becomes more compelling.

You make a spread sheet like the have for the 3ds product line

Wii u lets you do this and has this.

With a gamepad you can also do this.

Contrasting the two helps define the gp and let's consumers decide if that value is worth $100

If someone is not interested at $300 but sees this great lineup of games they can play just like they did on their wii but with a more traditional controller the cost might almost be impulse buy level. It becomes $200 to upgrade your wii to an hd machine more powerful than 360 or ps3 that plays all your wii games and the new hd ones too and offers traditional controls and backwards compatibility.

The wii u at $200 is half as much as a ps4 with no games. It becomes a much more compelling budget option that's getting great games that are in hd for the first time.

Nintendo should only care about getting hw to people in order to allow them to play their games. This was one idea behind 2ds and it's the main idea behind making the gp optional and supporting the pro controller as a default controller too

Edited on by blaisedinsd

blaisedinsd

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blaisedinsd

595. Posted:

Bottom line:the wii u is not selling well and Nintendo has struggled with hd and with making the gp compelling like motion control was initially.

The wii u is perceived as too expensive for what it offers in consumers minds. This is the reason things don't sell well: the cost vs value debate in the consumers mind.

Nintendo already takes a loss on hw at $300 and the wii u is having a negative impact on their profits so they can't cut the price

They can release games.

The 3ds teaches us that the cost vs value = sales relationship when applied to a struggling console that to turn it around you must reduce cost and increase value. Problem with wii u is Nintendo can't decrease the cost.

It seems a natural solution to the problem for them to support the pro controller as an alternative to the gp that allows them to reduce the cost.

Yes this causes some compatibility issues that they have to deal with and a split user base but I think I have laid out why those issues are not too important.

1. The gp already let's you use buttons the pro controller has for things that require the gp. System level update could fix this by letting your pro and tv be equivalent to a gp.
2. Games could be patched to support this. This can be done in an as needed basis. If no gp becomes popular even Lego city and Zombi u could get a patch to enable pro controller compatibility.
3. This is already an issue that doesn't become much worse. Just try to figure out if a game supports the pro now or off tv play. Their is no valuable labeling system and a consumer must research this to find out before buying

Yes gp support is threatened but:
1. The games coming soon don't need the gp
2. The struggling wii u means the bulk of sw support will come from Nintendo anyway and they have a trust issue with early adopters that compels them to support the gp going forward
3. We have seen 2 screen games have a niche limited appeal like Nintendoland and game and Wario. These can be considered like kinect sports.
4. Games that are enhanced with the gp are like wind waker and support the pro and off tv or like Lego city and Zombi u they use the gp and then don't bother with a single screen off tv mode. This is lazy. Wind waker did it right and as a later game is more indicative of the path we are on.
5. A core game requiring the gp is not an issue for Nintendo. There most core fans have a gp. If they don't it's like requiring motion plus in skyward sword. It was extra cash to get the add on. (Why do I try analogy again?). They can sell a gp with this new game for $100. A pro is $50 already and the game is $60. Someone with out a gp saves $10 with that bundle and the $50 is the cost of a controller anyway. So it's like they have to buy the game they want and an extra controller and they save $10. Not a problem.

. Hopefully that's a decent summary of where I am in this thread

blaisedinsd

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skywake

596. Posted:

@blaisedinsd
I'm not going to quote the whole thing again because I'm kinda sick of editing the large blocks of text in order to respond to each and every point. So I'll just do a bit of shorthand.

Progress in this thread:
When you have mentioned examples previously like the Kinect or Motion Plus you have use them to try and explain your case. When I and others have pointed out how the GamePad is not like that you have simply brushed off those differences. The key points being that their introduction did not break compatibility with previous games and with Motion Plus in particular they really pushed it on the cheaper SKUs. They made them the standard controller. What you're suggesting is the reverse

That I don't "get" analogies and am therefore an idiot
The thing is that an analogy is all about making a comparison with something that is mechanically (for lack of a better word) similar. The differences between the two analogues are key to the strength of the analogy. If the analogy falls apart then it's a bad analogy. If the analogy exposes a weakness in your argument and someone hones in on it then you better be ready to concede. What you don't do is stubbornly stick with it and blame the person who tore your analogy apart. As soon as you're attacking the man rather than the argument then you're well on the road to losing that argument.

but there's nothing you can do on the GamePad that you can't do on the Pro
Well sure there is. You can have a separate view, you can use touch input or NFC. Apparently according to you the Pro doesn't have Motion Control either so that's another thing it can do. Then there's the IR sensor which is already in use for the Wii U Fit Meter but could also be used for other wearables especially given how much cheaper IR is than bluetooth. It also has speakers and a headset port. So it's more than just mirroring the TV and GamePad buttons.

What I was actually saying and what you skirted around was the fact that there's nothing you can do on the Pro that you can't do on the GamePad. That's what I was saying. In terms of comparisons the GamePad is the WiiMote + Motion Plus to the Pro's plain old WiiMote.... but it came in the box at launch...

The GamePad is fun in those games and we share it
Damn straight it is, that what I was saying. Interestingly @Mahe here seems to be of the opinion that every GamePad game is horrible and nobody ever wants to use it. Interesting that in search of people to disagree with you even had a go at @Mahe there who was trying to claim that the GamePad was the worst thing since Nickelback.

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Mahe

597. Posted:

blaisedinsd wrote:

Nsmbu not letting you use gp in multiplayer seems silly. Yeah boost mode, but why can't 2 people play if you add one other controller? 3d world does the opposite and forces you to use the gp if you do 4 players but you can do 3 with out it. It doesn't make sense to me. That's two examples that show in my mind the gp controller confuses even Nintendo about what to do with it.

That's the point, even Nintendo is terribly confused by the Gamepad, and don't know what to do with it. The Gamepad has been implemented terribly, whether in games or at system level. It's a failed experiment, so at least the failed experiment should be cut off to make a Wii U where the Gamepad is completely optional.

blaisedinsd wrote:

If your point is these things make gp optional bad I think you failed to make that point. You just talked about motion plus but didn't say how this makes gp optional a bad idea.

It's a comparison showing how Motionplus was a good upgrade and the Gamepad is a terrible non-upgrade. Motionplus improved the existing controllers and worked with them. Gamepad tries to replace the existing, well-working controllers, and makes a complete mess of it. In terms of usability and enjoyment, the Gamepad is a massive downgrade from the Wiimote.

Edited on by Mahe

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AJ_Lethal

598. Posted:

This thread in a nutshell:
Untitled

@Mahe: comparing the Gamepad to the Wiimote+ is like comparing apples to oranges.

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blaisedinsd

599. Posted:

skywake wrote:

@blaisedinsd
Progress in this thread:
When you have mentioned examples previously like the Kinect or Motion Plus you have use them to try and explain your case. When I and others have pointed out how the GamePad is not like that you have simply brushed off those differences. The key points being that their introduction did not break compatibility with previous games and with Motion Plus in particular they really pushed it on the cheaper SKUs. They made them the standard controller. What you're suggesting is the reverse

Completely agree. That is why I don't get what the disconnect is. I make an analogy that says it's like those things but in reverse and I get a response that says I am wrong because it's in reverse. That's just so weird to me. The proper response if you disagree is to say why it being in reverse makes it a bad idea for Nintendo to consider. I have not seen that proper response. I acknowledge and accept some games can not be compatible without a gamepad. I acknowledge the GP is the standard controller and that this would mean the pro controller is also a standard controller if you don't have a gp (or don't want to or it's inconvenient to use)

skywake wrote:

That I don't "get" analogies and am therefore an idiot
The thing is that an analogy is all about making a comparison with something that is mechanically (for lack of a better word) similar. The differences between the two analogues are key to the strength of the analogy. If the analogy falls apart then it's a bad analogy. If the analogy exposes a weakness in your argument and someone hones in on it then you better be ready to concede. What you don't do is stubbornly stick with it and blame the person who tore your analogy apart. As soon as you're attacking the man rather than the argument then you're well on the road to losing that argument.

Well there is your problem The similarities in the analogy are its strength. I am pretty sure this is an indisputable fact and you are wrong. An analogy say THIS is like THAT. What you are saying is pointing out why THIS is not like THAT is the determining factor of the validity of an analogy makes no sense to me. Yeah your making a point I accept, THIS is not EXACTLY like THAT, buy since my point is only HOW this is like THAT pointing out how it's not is simply ridiculous and maddening.

skywake wrote:

but there's nothing you can do on the GamePad that you can't do on the Pro
Well sure there is. You can have a separate view, you can use touch input or NFC. Apparently according to you the Pro doesn't have Motion Control either so that's another thing it can do. Then there's the IR sensor which is already in use for the Wii U Fit Meter but could also be used for other wearables especially given how much cheaper IR is than bluetooth. It also has speakers and a headset port. So it's more than just mirroring the TV and GamePad buttons.

This is true, but what is it that requires any of that stuff? Separate view is used for niche games that will be incompatible. Touch is used for selecting things and I find that everything I can select with touch pretty much also allows me to use the GP buttons, so why can't the pro do that too on the TV? Motion control is used for various things but outside the niche titles Lego City uses it for a scanner something that has been done with buttons and something many would prefer to do with buttons (aiming with motion control or circle pad in 3DS games for instance, with 3D on you cant use motion well). The IR sensor would mean fit meters are not compatible with out a fitmeter you can still Play Wii FIt U and overall the gamepad stuff in Wii Fit U would be a compatibility issue. Wii Fit U is a niche title though so we will move on (it alway required add ons anyway). Overall there is nothing that core titles require the GP for that can't be done with a TV and procontroller. Do you agree?

skywake wrote:

What I was actually saying and what you skirted around was the fact that there's nothing you can do on the Pro that you can't do on the GamePad. That's what I was saying. In terms of comparisons the GamePad is the WiiMote + Motion Plus to the Pro's plain old WiiMote.... but it came in the box at launch...

The GamePad is fun in those games and we share it
Damn straight it is, that what I was saying. Interestingly @Mahe here seems to be of the opinion that every GamePad game is horrible and nobody ever wants to use it. Interesting that in search of people to disagree with you even had a go at @Mahe there who was trying to claim that the GamePad was the worst thing since Nickelback.

This is all fine and good for why the gamepad is cool and great and all but my point is simply that letting each Wii U adopter decide if those things we like about it are worth spending an extra $100 is the smart thing to do for the consoles profitability. If they don't value that stuff at $100 than they would likely value the Wii U more at $200 than $300.

Edited on by blaisedinsd

blaisedinsd

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blaisedinsd

600. Posted:

Mahe wrote:

blaisedinsd wrote:

Nsmbu not letting you use gp in multiplayer seems silly. Yeah boost mode, but why can't 2 people play if you add one other controller? 3d world does the opposite and forces you to use the gp if you do 4 players but you can do 3 with out it. It doesn't make sense to me. That's two examples that show in my mind the gp controller confuses even Nintendo about what to do with it.

That's the point, even Nintendo is terribly confused by the Gamepad, and don't know what to do with it. The Gamepad has been implemented terribly, whether in games or at system level. It's a failed experiment, so at least the failed experiment should be cut off to make a Wii U where the Gamepad is completely optional.

blaisedinsd wrote:

If your point is these things make gp optional bad I think you failed to make that point. You just talked about motion plus but didn't say how this makes gp optional a bad idea.

It's a comparison showing how Motionplus was a good upgrade and the Gamepad is a terrible non-upgrade. Motionplus improved the existing controllers and worked with them. Gamepad tries to replace the existing, well-working controllers, and makes a complete mess of it. In terms of usability and enjoyment, the Gamepad is a massive downgrade from the Wiimote.

I didn't realize you were agreeing with me.

So much of the thread is people disagreeing with me, this is nice

blaisedinsd

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