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Topic: What does Nintendo have to lose by making the gamepad "optional"?

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Beetlejuice

521. Posted:

AJ_Lethal wrote:

JohnRedcorn wrote:

It's like if Honda released a car that could only be driven using a steering wheel that looked like bike handle bars. Some people may like it, but many will be put off and rather own a car that uses a steering wheel they are familiar with.

That's an obtuse analogy.

It's like if Honda released a sports car with a paddle-shifter gearbox and a F1-style steering wheel as standard.

Which wouldn't interest or appeal to most drivers either, much like the bike handle bars in a car. Both examples lead to the same result (consumer apathy), so both are valid analogies.

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SCAR392

522. Posted:

@RancidVomit86
The Wii U isn't doing that well, besed on the same ideas that made those other devices popular. That's the point I was trying to make, and if you invlove the money, Wii U arguably beats most of those devices in value, without sacrificing a second screen that thos other devices don't have in the first place.

@shingi_70
It doesn't matter whether the GamePad works away from the Wii U console. It's marketed as a home console with a tablet controlle. As for your device mentions, I get it. You have all those devices that arguably do the same stuff. It's just a matter of tying those things together, which is what Wii U is trying to do on a wider scale. Your phone can't connect to everything your Xbox 360 can do, but the GamePad to Wii U can.

Mirroring is a different subject, though. The GamePad doesn't mirror as often, because they know you'll have the second screen. Mirroring isn't an equivalent, because the second screen is now showing the same thing, and is also different from off-TV play.

I don't get what you mean about that last bit. All this stuff is built into the devkits and will be used more often if they know everyone has one, that's why Wii U is a more attractive second screen machine, despite there being 100s of millions of smartphones, tablets, and home consoles that have failed to be anything like Wii U. This only goes for the markets that are relevant to one another(games on smartphones, home consoles, and mixing those 2 together at a cheaper price and more support for said options).

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SCAR392

523. Posted:

JohnRedcorn wrote:

AJ_Lethal wrote:

JohnRedcorn wrote:

It's like if Honda released a car that could only be driven using a steering wheel that looked like bike handle bars. Some people may like it, but many will be put off and rather own a car that uses a steering wheel they are familiar with.

That's an obtuse analogy.

It's like if Honda released a sports car with a paddle-shifter gearbox and a F1-style steering wheel as standard.

Which wouldn't interest or appeal to most drivers either, much like the bike handle bars in a car. Both examples lead to the same result (consumer apathy), so both are valid analogies.

No, because bike handle bars are different than an F1 steering wheel. The F1 sterring wheel makes much more sense, because it's an alteration, not a complete change.

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blaisedinsd

524. Posted:

Captain_Toad wrote:

Mahe wrote:

CanisWolfred wrote:

Yup. So naturally taking things out will magically increase it's value, yes?

Yeah, it's called "trimming off the excess". The Gamepad is an obstacle, a hindrance, and completely excessive. Trimming it off would make the Wii U a better console.

Sorry for making assumptions, but you're making it sound like the game-pad is the root-of-all-things-evil just because.

It could go either way. You don't know until you give consumers the option.

The convo with brother in law continued and he decided he would rather wait for the wii u with the gamepad to become cheaper. He is kind of on the fence and in wait mode at $300, but he wants the gamepad.

If the option is at least available to consumers though surely they would sell some extra consoles and that's all that really matters to them. They need to sell software more than anything else and they can't unless some one buys a console first.

A price cut is what is really needed and this option is sort of another pseudo price cut. They would be lowering the price a second time with out hurting there profit margin.

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DefHalan

525. Posted:

This has gotten very out of hand. Games are where companies make money. Now if Nintendo kept making GamePad required games then what is thepoint of the GamePad-less SKU? Nintendo ccan't target them to sell games to and those people will not be able to play a lot of the library. So if all they want is a cheaper entry point how many games do they plan on buying? 1 or 2. (Mainly Smash Bros and Mario Kart?) Why would it be a smart move for Nintendo to release a GamePad-less SKU that won't play most Wii U games after Smash Bros? As was stated before Nintendo is working on games that use the GamePad more. So Nintendo can create this new install base of GamePad-less SKUs which they cannot get sales from on future titles. That would be pointless and damage relations with customers who are confused by the two different SKUs and what each 1 can do. It is pointless for a company to release hardware (GamePad-less SKU) they are not going to support(Nintendo is focusing on pushing the GamePad more)

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/44243746261/nickels-dimes-and-quarters
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/why-console-specs-dont-matter
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/200271/Video_Don_Daglow_on_nextgen_transition_traps_and_treasures.php

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shingi_70

526. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

@RancidVomit86
The Wii U isn't doing that well, besed on the same ideas that made those other devices popular. That's the point I was trying to make, and if you invlove the money, Wii U arguably beats most of those devices in value, without sacrificing a second screen that thos other devices don't have in the first place.

@shingi_70
It doesn't matter whether the GamePad works away from the Wii U console. It's marketed as a home console with a tablet controlle. As for your device mentions, I get it. You have all those devices that arguably do the same stuff. It's just a matter of tying those things together, which is what Wii U is trying to do on a wider scale. Your phone can't connect to everything your Xbox 360 can do, but the GamePad to Wii U can.

Mirroring is a different subject, though. The GamePad doesn't mirror as often, because they know you'll have the second screen. Mirroring isn't an equivalent, because the second screen is now showing the same thing, and is also different from off-TV play.

I don't get what you mean about that last bit. All this stuff is built into the devkits and will be used more often if they know everyone has one, that's why Wii U is a more attractive second screen machine, despite there being 100s of millions of smartphones, tablets, and home consoles that have failed to be anything like Wii U. This only goes for the markets that are relevant to one another(games on smartphones, home consoles, and mixing those 2 together at a cheaper price and more support for said options).

But my phone can pretty much connect to all my 360's functions even when they're running to different OSs.

The last point is the big part which is developer support. Put it like this I was watching House of Cards on netflix on my bus ride home yesterday. Once in side the house I pressed the Cast button and my chromecast turned on my TV and kept playing from where I left off at.

WAT!

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Captain_Toad

527. Posted:

DefHalan wrote:

This has gotten very out of hand. Games are where companies make money. Now if Nintendo kept making GamePad required games then what is thepoint of the GamePad-less SKU? Nintendo ccan't target them to sell games to and those people will not be able to play a lot of the library. So if all they want is a cheaper entry point how many games do they plan on buying? 1 or 2. (Mainly Smash Bros and Mario Kart?) Why would it be a smart move for Nintendo to release a GamePad-less SKU that won't play most Wii U games after Smash Bros? As was stated before Nintendo is working on games that use the GamePad more. So Nintendo can create this new install base of GamePad-less SKUs which they cannot get sales from on future titles. That would be pointless and damage relations with customers who are confused by the two different SKUs and what each 1 can do. It is pointless for a company to release hardware (GamePad-less SKU) they are not going to support(Nintendo is focusing on pushing the GamePad more)

And again... you'll be left out with a weaker hardware with potentially even FEWER third and pratically other parties would support because the dang gamepad is optional.

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blaisedinsd

528. Posted:

If the hypothetical Nintendo direct a few pages back was how they did it you guys wouldn't care.

The fears of loss of gamepad support is irrational. The only support it will get is from Nintendo and they have pledged continued support it. Gamepad owners lose nothing if the gamepad becomes optional.

It is mainly the inability to conceive of the wii u with out a gamepad that is causing these fears. I understand that is a problem they solve with an ambassador program. They do it right and no one has reason to complain or loses anything.

This has been established over the near 30 pages of this thread. If you don't understand read it again. If you still don't understand because you have a mental block that will only be cleared after the option is released. It won't affect you other than a possible ambassador benefit.

blaisedinsd

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SCAR392

529. Posted:

@shingi_70
Like what, exactly? Can you play Skyrim, Gears of War, Assassin's Creed, etc. on your phone with 2 screen features? I already know the OS can run through the Smartglass app. Plus, this is Smartglass. That's designed to work with already existing devices that Microsoft has had presence in. Nintendo doesn't have the advantage of having access to phones and tablets, so they designed and packaged their own.

Also, Netflix saves your progress, whether you have another device or not. If I'm watching Netflix on my phone, I don't need Miracast to watch my movie from where it was on my phone, on my TV.

Edited on by SCAR392

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DefHalan

530. Posted:

blaisedinsd wrote:

If the hypothetical Nintendo direct a few pages back was how they did it you guys wouldn't care.

It is hypothetical so now I don't care. You are asking a lot of Nintendo just to justify this choice.

blaisedinsd wrote:

The fears of loss of gamepad support is irrational. The only support it will get is from Nintendo and they have pledged continued support it. Gamepad owners lose nothing if the gamepad becomes optional.

If Nintendo is still making GamePad games and thus cannot sell games to people with the GamePad-less SKU then why would Nintendo want to sell that SKU?

blaisedinsd wrote:

It is mainly the inability to conceive of the wii u with out a gamepad that is causing these fears. I understand that is a problem they solve with an ambassador program. They do it right and no one has reason to complain or loses anything.

Some people invested in this console for the GamePad. People who don't care about the GamePad or don't want the GamePad need to be sold on it by games. If Nintendo is still focusing on the GamePad then why create a GamePad-less SKU? The best way to for Nintendo to sell their console is to create more/better software.

blaisedinsd wrote:

This has been established over the near 30 pages of this thread. If you don't understand read it again. If you still don't understand because you have a mental block that will only be cleared after the option is released. It won't affect you other than a possible ambassador benefit.

Just because you have continued to say the same thing over and over doesn't make it right. An "ambassador program" isn't to give people 1 last hoorah. An "ambassador program" is to, in a way, pay back loyal customers that paid more than they should have.

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/44243746261/nickels-dimes-and-quarters
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/why-console-specs-dont-matter
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/200271/Video_Don_Daglow_on_nextgen_transition_traps_and_treasures.php

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Beetlejuice

531. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

JohnRedcorn wrote:

AJ_Lethal wrote:

JohnRedcorn wrote:

It's like if Honda released a car that could only be driven using a steering wheel that looked like bike handle bars. Some people may like it, but many will be put off and rather own a car that uses a steering wheel they are familiar with.

That's an obtuse analogy.

It's like if Honda released a sports car with a paddle-shifter gearbox and a F1-style steering wheel as standard.

Which wouldn't interest or appeal to most drivers either, much like the bike handle bars in a car. Both examples lead to the same result (consumer apathy), so both are valid analogies.

No, because bike handle bars are different than an F1 steering wheel. The F1 sterring wheel makes much more sense, because it's an alteration, not a complete change.

An alteration most people wouldn't want, much like driving a car using handle bars. Both are an unappealing alternative to a using a standard steering wheel.

Wait a minute....was I just seriously discussing the validity of an analogy with someone who compared the Wii-U to a McDonald's value meal?! My bad!

Edited on by Beetlejuice

Beetlejuice

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SCAR392

532. Posted:

@JohnRedcord
If you're hungry, there is no other choice aside from the value meal.

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OptometristLime

533. Posted:

I already took my shot at explaining the issue with the Ambassador program. It even sounded like we might have reached some agreement about its function as a double edged sword, potentially alienating new adopters while appeasing early adopters.

What's being overlooked, I think, is how to handle the (excuse the term) true fans who support you from the beginning. These folks, myself included, totally buy into the exciting new features afforded by the Game Pad. Once the choice is made by Nintendo to segregate the Wii U into 'Pad and 'Pad-less bundles, my confidence in the company is shot. Fans interpret the move as Nintendo saying "Wait a second - this whole innovation was a mistake"; suddenly future support for the Game Pad drifts into unknown territory. That's when I auction off my Wii U and start my exodus to another console manufacturer. I'm dead serious.

LOL @SCAR392
That comment is signature-worthy. :)

Edited on by OptometristLime

CanisWolfred wrote:

Obviously you guys have been watching too much Anime. Maybe Link will photosythesis, too?.

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shaneoh

534. Posted:

http://www.nintendolife.com/forums/general_discussion/ask_a_s...

shaneoh

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SCAR392

535. Posted:

@OptometristLime
I know. It's the same way I feel about that CoD DLC... They said they're going to support it, and have made their message clear that they will do everything in their power to make it a sought after feature that will be worthwhile for all their existing and potential customers.

Even the thought of making it optional is ignoring every reason Nintendo has given us to support it, which is that it makes the console better and offers unmatched value as a core part of the system.

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GuSolarFlare

536. Posted:

get a cool avatar and start standing out!!! you'll go far with good posts like this one!!! :p

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Jazzer94

537. Posted:

blaisedinsd wrote:

If the hypothetical Nintendo direct a few pages back was how they did it you guys wouldn't care.

The fears of loss of gamepad support is irrational. The only support it will get is from Nintendo and they have pledged continued support it. Gamepad owners lose nothing if the gamepad becomes optional.

It is mainly the inability to conceive of the wii u with out a gamepad that is causing these fears. I understand that is a problem they solve with an ambassador program. They do it right and no one has reason to complain or loses anything.

This has been established over the near 30 pages of this thread. If you don't understand read it again. If you still don't understand because you have a mental block that will only be cleared after the option is released. It won't affect you other than a possible ambassador benefit.

There is no fear of losing the gamepad, its the fact that most of us can see that there aren't any real benefits of going down that path on the hope of chances.

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AJ_Lethal

538. Posted:

JohnRedcorn wrote:

An alteration most people wouldn't want, much like driving a car using handle bars. Both are an unappealing alternative to a using a standard steering wheel.

Except the handle bars in a car are rather unwieldy, whereas a f1-style wheel is pretty much as usable as a regular one.

Oh, since this thread is around 30 pages... why not take a third option? Like a redesigned, smaller and cheaper Gamepad?

Edited on by AJ_Lethal

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DefHalan

539. Posted:

AJ_Lethal wrote:

JohnRedcorn wrote:

An alteration most people wouldn't want, much like driving a car using handle bars. Both are an unappealing alternative to a using a standard steering wheel.

Except the handle bars in a car are rather unwieldy, whereas a f1-style wheel is pretty much as usable as a regular one.

Oh, since this thread is around 30 pages... why not take a third option? Like a redesigned, smaller and cheaper Gamepad?

Maybe a controller with a screen the size of a 3DS touch screen? I am not sure who would be interested in it but it is an idea for a cheaper GamePad

http://dudehugespeaks.tumblr.com/post/44243746261/nickels-dimes-and-quarters
http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/why-console-specs-dont-matter
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/200271/Video_Don_Daglow_on_nextgen_transition_traps_and_treasures.php

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GuSolarFlare

540. Posted:

AJ_Lethal wrote:

JohnRedcorn wrote:

An alteration most people wouldn't want, much like driving a car using handle bars. Both are an unappealing alternative to a using a standard steering wheel.

Except the handle bars in a car are rather unwieldy, whereas a f1-style wheel is pretty much as usable as a regular one.

Oh, since this thread is around 30 pages... why not take a third option? Like a redesigned, smaller and cheaper Gamepad?

that's actually a good idea. a smaller Gamepad maybe with a "better" grip it would work and 100% surely it'd be called "Gamepad Lite"

looking forward to Codename S.T.E.A.M.
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