Wii U Forum

Topic: What does Nintendo have to lose by making the gamepad "optional"?

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GuSolarFlare

501. Posted:

blaisedinsd wrote:

Ps4 is selling better based on its brand. It's marketing image.

Wii u has already lost its third part support it had at launch. Nintendo is a different market. Sony and Microsoft compete head to head. Sony is winning and that why they are selling.

The wii u needs to be attractive as a secondary console for some one who gets a sony or Microsoft box.

I broke down the 2 reasons the wii sold well. Without those 2 reasons the wii u is worse off than the gamecube. It's more expensive and less powerful with less third party support. The wii us best hope to be more successful than the gamecube is to retain as much of the wii brand userbase as possible

that's why being just a weaker version of the other consoles won't help it.... it needs an attractive Gimmick for it's weaker hardware to reach any market at all....

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MikeLove

502. Posted:

Captain_Toad wrote:

blaisedinsd wrote:

Don't you see though he is more interested at a lower price? Don't you agree the games will sell the system? (Not the gamepad features)

Are you even aware the wii was a unique case? The motion control gimmic initially created huge demand. The install base was then so large it may have sold more games. This is not how it usually works in this industry. Do you understand that?

The games are the appeal of the wii u. The games are the core value. The console purchase is made like any other. Value vs cost. Do you understand this?

This is why my brother in law is more interested at $200. At that price he's not concerned if his kids play it, he can get it for himself so he can play the new Mario kart or whatever he is most interested in. He may be interested in the gamepad later, but he primary want access to the games. Why force him to buy the gamepad upfront to give him access to what you really want to sell anyway. Games. Do you understand this?

Additionally, the 3ds struggled at launch. Why? Because it cost too much. Value vs cost, remember. How did they fix 3ds? They slashed the price for one. This price cut was the first time ever they sold hw at a loss. People were laughing how this was proof 3ds was doomed. But they did something else too, they increased its value with games. It worked.

The wii u is the same thing. Value vs cost equals sale. The wii u's value is games and that value is increasing. Nintendo needs a way to get the cost down because lower cost equals more sales. Just like 3ds they need to do both. Wii u they can't cut cost because they started selling at a loss already ( 3ds launch price was profitable before the cut).

This is video game business 101. You must be young. How many "console wars" you been around for?

Then how is the PS4 that is $100 more with not as much games out is selling more than the WiiU at the current time?

Umm....because its a better value? Bluray player, larger HD, better technology, guaranteed to get all the big third party games and has a far brighter future?

I would pay $400 for a Nintendo console that was all of the above as well. As proven by Apple, there are MILLIONS of people who will shell out a lot of cash for 'high end' electronic devices. People would rather buy a PS4, than spend $100 less to get a product that they view as technologically weaker, that lacks a lot of the games they want to play.

Not really that hard to understand. I understand you were trying to be cute with your reply, but it wasn't thought out very well.

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Captain_Toad

503. Posted:

JohnRedcorn wrote:

Captain_Toad wrote:

blaisedinsd wrote:

Don't you see though he is more interested at a lower price? Don't you agree the games will sell the system? (Not the gamepad features)

Are you even aware the wii was a unique case? The motion control gimmic initially created huge demand. The install base was then so large it may have sold more games. This is not how it usually works in this industry. Do you understand that?

The games are the appeal of the wii u. The games are the core value. The console purchase is made like any other. Value vs cost. Do you understand this?

This is why my brother in law is more interested at $200. At that price he's not concerned if his kids play it, he can get it for himself so he can play the new Mario kart or whatever he is most interested in. He may be interested in the gamepad later, but he primary want access to the games. Why force him to buy the gamepad upfront to give him access to what you really want to sell anyway. Games. Do you understand this?

Additionally, the 3ds struggled at launch. Why? Because it cost too much. Value vs cost, remember. How did they fix 3ds? They slashed the price for one. This price cut was the first time ever they sold hw at a loss. People were laughing how this was proof 3ds was doomed. But they did something else too, they increased its value with games. It worked.

The wii u is the same thing. Value vs cost equals sale. The wii u's value is games and that value is increasing. Nintendo needs a way to get the cost down because lower cost equals more sales. Just like 3ds they need to do both. Wii u they can't cut cost because they started selling at a loss already ( 3ds launch price was profitable before the cut).

This is video game business 101. You must be young. How many "console wars" you been around for?

Then how is the PS4 that is $100 more with not as much games out is selling more than the WiiU at the current time?

Umm....because its a better value? Bluray player, larger HD, better technology, guaranteed to get all the big third party games and has a far brighter future?

I would pay $400 for a Nintendo console that was all of the above as well. As proven by Apple, there are MILLIONS of people who will shell out a lot of cash for 'high end' electronic devices. People would rather buy a PS4, than spend $100 less to get a product that they view as technologically weaker, that lacks a lot of the games they want to play.

Not really that hard to understand. I understand you were trying to be cute with your reply, but it wasn't thought out very well.

So the cost isn't the problem it's more about faith in the WiiU console and how much stuff is packed in?

Edited on by Captain_Toad

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MikeLove

504. Posted:

Captain_Toad wrote:

JohnRedcorn wrote:

Captain_Toad wrote:

blaisedinsd wrote:

Don't you see though he is more interested at a lower price? Don't you agree the games will sell the system? (Not the gamepad features)

Are you even aware the wii was a unique case? The motion control gimmic initially created huge demand. The install base was then so large it may have sold more games. This is not how it usually works in this industry. Do you understand that?

The games are the appeal of the wii u. The games are the core value. The console purchase is made like any other. Value vs cost. Do you understand this?

This is why my brother in law is more interested at $200. At that price he's not concerned if his kids play it, he can get it for himself so he can play the new Mario kart or whatever he is most interested in. He may be interested in the gamepad later, but he primary want access to the games. Why force him to buy the gamepad upfront to give him access to what you really want to sell anyway. Games. Do you understand this?

Additionally, the 3ds struggled at launch. Why? Because it cost too much. Value vs cost, remember. How did they fix 3ds? They slashed the price for one. This price cut was the first time ever they sold hw at a loss. People were laughing how this was proof 3ds was doomed. But they did something else too, they increased its value with games. It worked.

The wii u is the same thing. Value vs cost equals sale. The wii u's value is games and that value is increasing. Nintendo needs a way to get the cost down because lower cost equals more sales. Just like 3ds they need to do both. Wii u they can't cut cost because they started selling at a loss already ( 3ds launch price was profitable before the cut).

This is video game business 101. You must be young. How many "console wars" you been around for?

Then how is the PS4 that is $100 more with not as much games out is selling more than the WiiU at the current time?

Umm....because its a better value? Bluray player, larger HD, better technology, guaranteed to get all the big third party games and has a far brighter future?

I would pay $400 for a Nintendo console that was all of the above as well. As proven by Apple, there are MILLIONS of people who will shell out a lot of cash for 'high end' electronic devices. People would rather buy a PS4, than spend $100 less to get a product that they view as technologically weaker, that lacks a lot of the games they want to play.

Not really that hard to understand. I understand you were trying to be cute with your reply, but it wasn't thought out very well.

So the cost isn't the problem it's more about faith in the WiiU console and how much stuff is packed in?

Absolutely. Buying a console is an investment. If it has strong support from developers and has the graphical horsepower to support top games for years, it's a good buy. That's the PS4. On the other hand, if it doesn't appear to have a bright future in terms of software, is viewed as being graphically weaker, has negative buzz surrounding it and questions about how long it will be around for, it's not a good buy. That's the Wii-U.

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CanisWolfred

505. Posted:

Yup. So naturally taking things out will magically increase it's value, yes?
:rollseyes:

Can we go back to the Sega/Nintendo conversation? That was a heck of a lot more fun. :P

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MikeLove

506. Posted:

CanisWolfred wrote:

Yup. So naturally taking things out will magically increase it's value, yes?
:rollseyes:

Can we go back to the Sega/Nintendo conversation? That was a heck of a lot more fun. :P

Taking something out that a lot of people have no interest in, and that may be putting people off from buying it, wouldn't make it more desirable?

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Ryno

507. Posted:

CanisWolfred wrote:

Can we go back to the Sega/Nintendo conversation? That was a heck of a lot more fun. :P

Yes, please. One of my favorite topics on this site!

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Captain_Toad

508. Posted:

JohnRedcorn wrote:

Captain_Toad wrote:

JohnRedcorn wrote:

Captain_Toad wrote:

blaisedinsd wrote:

Don't you see though he is more interested at a lower price? Don't you agree the games will sell the system? (Not the gamepad features)

Are you even aware the wii was a unique case? The motion control gimmic initially created huge demand. The install base was then so large it may have sold more games. This is not how it usually works in this industry. Do you understand that?

The games are the appeal of the wii u. The games are the core value. The console purchase is made like any other. Value vs cost. Do you understand this?

This is why my brother in law is more interested at $200. At that price he's not concerned if his kids play it, he can get it for himself so he can play the new Mario kart or whatever he is most interested in. He may be interested in the gamepad later, but he primary want access to the games. Why force him to buy the gamepad upfront to give him access to what you really want to sell anyway. Games. Do you understand this?

Additionally, the 3ds struggled at launch. Why? Because it cost too much. Value vs cost, remember. How did they fix 3ds? They slashed the price for one. This price cut was the first time ever they sold hw at a loss. People were laughing how this was proof 3ds was doomed. But they did something else too, they increased its value with games. It worked.

The wii u is the same thing. Value vs cost equals sale. The wii u's value is games and that value is increasing. Nintendo needs a way to get the cost down because lower cost equals more sales. Just like 3ds they need to do both. Wii u they can't cut cost because they started selling at a loss already ( 3ds launch price was profitable before the cut).

This is video game business 101. You must be young. How many "console wars" you been around for?

Then how is the PS4 that is $100 more with not as much games out is selling more than the WiiU at the current time?

Umm....because its a better value? Bluray player, larger HD, better technology, guaranteed to get all the big third party games and has a far brighter future?

I would pay $400 for a Nintendo console that was all of the above as well. As proven by Apple, there are MILLIONS of people who will shell out a lot of cash for 'high end' electronic devices. People would rather buy a PS4, than spend $100 less to get a product that they view as technologically weaker, that lacks a lot of the games they want to play.

Not really that hard to understand. I understand you were trying to be cute with your reply, but it wasn't thought out very well.

So the cost isn't the problem it's more about faith in the WiiU console and how much stuff is packed in?

Absolutely. Buying a console is an investment. If it has strong support from developers and has the graphical horsepower to support top games for years, it's a good buy. That's the PS4. On the other hand, if it doesn't appear to have a bright future in terms of software, is viewed as being graphically weaker, has negative buzz surrounding it and questions about how long it will be around for, it's not a good buy. That's the Wii-U.

Heh, I'm not one to predict how the WiiU will turn out in the end, but you did confirm one thing. We now know that cost isn't the main problem here, Removing the gamepad just to have a more attractive user-base and have the lower price isn't going to be the bee all end all solution to things.

Just like @Gustaflame said, without the gamepad what do we have in the end? A weaker console with nothing to stand out from it's competitors.

Edited on by Captain_Toad

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AJ_Lethal

509. Posted:

JohnRedcorn wrote:

On the other hand, if it doesn't appear to have a bright future in terms of software, is viewed as being graphically weaker, has negative buzz surrounding it and questions about how long it will be around for, it's not a good buy. That's the Wii-U.

The highlighted point is one of the biggest problems of the Wii U. Much of that negative perception is rather exaggerated (because drama sells) and I dare to say undeserved; which prompts me to punch people in the face.

Edited on by AJ_Lethal

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Ryno

510. Posted:

JohnRedcorn wrote:

CanisWolfred wrote:

Yup. So naturally taking things out will magically increase it's value, yes?
:rollseyes:

Can we go back to the Sega/Nintendo conversation? That was a heck of a lot more fun. :P

Taking something out that a lot of people have no interest in, and that may be putting people off from buying it, wouldn't make it more desirable?

How many people are really out there thinking "man, I would get that Wii U if it wasn't for that dang Gamepad!"

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MikeLove

511. Posted:

Ryno wrote:

JohnRedcorn wrote:

CanisWolfred wrote:

Yup. So naturally taking things out will magically increase it's value, yes?
:rollseyes:

Can we go back to the Sega/Nintendo conversation? That was a heck of a lot more fun. :P

Taking something out that a lot of people have no interest in, and that may be putting people off from buying it, wouldn't make it more desirable?

How many people are really out there thinking "man, I would get that Wii U if it wasn't for that dang Gamepad!"

How many 19-35 year olds are looking at the gamepad thinking 'gee, that big plastic controller that looks like a children's educational toy looks fun, I want a Wii-U'? Not enough, apparently.

It's like if Honda released a car that could only be driven using a steering wheel that looked like bike handle bars. Some people may like it, but many will be put off and rather own a car that uses a steering wheel they are familiar with.

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Mahe

512. Posted:

CanisWolfred wrote:

Yup. So naturally taking things out will magically increase it's value, yes?

Yeah, it's called "trimming off the excess". The Gamepad is an obstacle, a hindrance, and completely excessive. Trimming it off would make the Wii U a better console.

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blaisedinsd

513. Posted:

JohnRedcorn wrote:

Captain_Toad wrote:

blaisedinsd wrote:

Don't you see though he is more interested at a lower price? Don't you agree the games will sell the system? (Not the gamepad features)

Are you even aware the wii was a unique case? The motion control gimmic initially created huge demand. The install base was then so large it may have sold more games. This is not how it usually works in this industry. Do you understand that?

The games are the appeal of the wii u. The games are the core value. The console purchase is made like any other. Value vs cost. Do you understand this?

This is why my brother in law is more interested at $200. At that price he's not concerned if his kids play it, he can get it for himself so he can play the new Mario kart or whatever he is most interested in. He may be interested in the gamepad later, but he primary want access to the games. Why force him to buy the gamepad upfront to give him access to what you really want to sell anyway. Games. Do you understand this?

Additionally, the 3ds struggled at launch. Why? Because it cost too much. Value vs cost, remember. How did they fix 3ds? They slashed the price for one. This price cut was the first time ever they sold hw at a loss. People were laughing how this was proof 3ds was doomed. But they did something else too, they increased its value with games. It worked.

The wii u is the same thing. Value vs cost equals sale. The wii u's value is games and that value is increasing. Nintendo needs a way to get the cost down because lower cost equals more sales. Just like 3ds they need to do both. Wii u they can't cut cost because they started selling at a loss already ( 3ds launch price was profitable before the cut).

This is video game business 101. You must be young. How many "console wars" you been around for?

Then how is the PS4 that is $100 more with not as much games out is selling more than the WiiU at the current time?

Umm....because its a better value? Bluray player, larger HD, better technology, guaranteed to get all the big third party games and has a far brighter future?

I would pay $400 for a Nintendo console that was all of the above as well. As proven by Apple, there are MILLIONS of people who will shell out a lot of cash for 'high end' electronic devices. People would rather buy a PS4, than spend $100 less to get a product that they view as technologically weaker, that lacks a lot of the games they want to play.

Not really that hard to understand. I understand you were trying to be cute with your reply, but it wasn't thought out very well.

I agree with all that bit personally for me I don't see the value yet because of no games. The wii u is a much better proposition with many more games I am interested in. Does that make me a Nintendo fanboy? Gawd, I guess it does. When did I become a Nintendo fanboy? Curse you super popular wii!

Anyway I think I represent a market needs to try to keep. I was brought back to being interested in Nintendo by the popularity of the Ds and then wii. The gimmicks got Nintendo back in my consciousness. I am part of the people they need to target, retention of the wii audience. I have never had an unpopular console before and wii u could be the first one. As long as I get the great Nintendo franchises in 3d and a few others run games I will be happy even if wii u is a flop. Console wars don't really matter to me. I think Nintendo can at least get the wii u to the level that it is profitable.

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MikeLove

514. Posted:

Mahe wrote:

CanisWolfred wrote:

Yup. So naturally taking things out will magically increase it's value, yes?

Yeah, it's called "trimming off the excess". The Gamepad is an obstacle, a hindrance, and completely excessive. Trimming it off would make the Wii U a better console.

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Captain_Toad

515. Posted:

Mahe wrote:

CanisWolfred wrote:

Yup. So naturally taking things out will magically increase it's value, yes?

Yeah, it's called "trimming off the excess". The Gamepad is an obstacle, a hindrance, and completely excessive. Trimming it off would make the Wii U a better console.

Sorry for making assumptions, but you're making it sound like the game-pad is the root-of-all-things-evil just because.

Edited on by Captain_Toad

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SCAR392

516. Posted:

Actually, I'd say the GamePad is more like a steering wheel with a touch screen on it, or the stereo in your dash with a touch screen.

I guess people don't want expensive stereos anymore, either? There's lots of stuff that I don't understand why people buy.

Just look at Dr. Dre Beats. I can find a $60 equivalent on Amazon. That's $100+ saved, depending on the model you get. iPhone 5S plays all the same software as iPhone 4. Not upgrading your iPhone as soon as a new one comes out can save you $400+. Let's not forget about that treadmill you don't use...

People waste their money all the time, with little to no thought, so how specifically this effects the Wii U, just as much applies to those other devices. Dr. Dre Beats and iPhones are selling spectacularly, but people are literally getting ripped off and allowing it to happen. How is that any better than selling you something that actually is worth it, and has an extra thing that improves your experience?

Anyone that keeps up on technology knows that Miracast and AirPlay exist, Wii U is the Nintendo equivalent of that, except it's tied to a designated area, and you're actually paying less in comparison to "competing" devices in those tablet ranges.

If you look at the entire situation, not only is price ok, based on consumer spending habits, but it beats the price of similar devices, including Xbox One, PS4, and the various tablets out there. Those tablets don't even come with a Miracast or AirPlay streamer, so you're automatically ignoring 2 screen features that not many people take advantage of, so the companies themselves don't explicitly support it as often.

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cheetahman91

517. Posted:

A lot. It's a terrible idea.

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AJ_Lethal

518. Posted:

JohnRedcorn wrote:

It's like if Honda released a car that could only be driven using a steering wheel that looked like bike handle bars. Some people may like it, but many will be put off and rather own a car that uses a steering wheel they are familiar with.

That's an obtuse analogy.

It's like if Honda released a sports car with a paddle-shifter gearbox and a F1-style steering wheel as standard.

Edited on by AJ_Lethal

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RancidVomit86

519. Posted:

@SCAR392 I see what you are trying to say but using IPhone and Beats is a bad comparison as they sell just because they are trendy to have. Wii U on the other hand is not. Now if Nintendo could figure out a way to make it trendy like they did with Wii then sales will boom. I think the PS4 right now is kinda latched some of that market because Sony has some brilliant marketing for it.

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shingi_70

520. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

Anyone that keeps up on technology knows that Miracast and AirPlay exist, Wii U is the Nintendo equivalent of that, except it's tied to a designated area, and you're actually paying less in comparison to "competing" devices in those tablet ranges.

If you look at the entire situation, not only is price ok, based on consumer spending habits, but it beats the price of similar devices, including Xbox One, PS4, and the various tablets out there. Those tablets don't even come with a Miracast or AirPlay streamer, so you're automatically ignoring 2 screen features that not many people take advantage of, so the companies themselves don't explicitly support it as often.

Expect the Wii U isn't the Nintendo version of Airplay/Miracast/Chromecast for a few reasons.

-One the point of Miracast is streaming something from a mobile device to a bigger screen, the Wii U does the inverse of that.
-The Wii U screen is pretty dumb away from the box.

You also seem to be forgeting that for most people they already have Phones and Tablets and both the Xbox 360 and PS3 are DLNA devices. Why would I buy a Wii U when I already have two tablets, a laptop, and a few phones at home.

Now with that in mind the Wii U loses the pricing match up to both the Apple TV and the chromecast. As far as developers taking advatge of it, it depends. Airplay for apple TV automativlly can mirror anything from an IOS or OSX Mavricks device making the point pretty moot. How ever chromecast works alittle differently due to content providers. It can out the gate mirror anything but its been hamstringged to work with apps.

Also both are pretty well supported since unlike Wii U the developers are updating their apps to work with both which is a big boom. The software is still running through the mobile app so no need to make something new for the device itsself.

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