Wii U Forum

Topic: What does Nintendo have to lose by making the gamepad "optional"?

Showing 481 to 500 of 724

AuthorMessage
Avatar

skywake

481. Posted:

@blaisedinsd
The value meal analogy is odd and I wasn't the one who pushed it. I don't at all agree with its use because the Wii U is a platform not a consumable, the games are the consumables. The Wii U equivalent of a "value meal" would be New SMB + Luigi if it was to actually make sense. If you want to weave the Wii U and GamePad into the Maccas world then the Wii U is a Maccas store and the GamePad is the fryer. A Maccas can still function without it in theory but it significantly reduces its ability to sell its product.

And again, your only reason for this SKU is that it would sell to the people who want a cheaper console. It's already the cheapest next-gen console on the market for a start. Secondly you again fail to recognise the fact that the people who are after the cheaper console are also the people more likely to be interested in the GamePad. It's not like the 3DS where the low end purchase was from a buyer who was potentially scared about 3D. It's more like the Kinect where the Kinect SKU was the cheapest SKU and sold well because the low end consumer was into that sort of thing. Or the Wii where it was the same again.

Just like the Kinect the person who was not into it is the same person who's willing to get the more expensive SKU anyways. Unlike the Kinect the higher end consumer actually gets some value in the GamePad. So again, please explain who this SKU is actually selling to. Give me a short descriptive stereotype of what that person is. Like the 2DS where it was "Pokemon for Kid of 3D Panic parent" or Kinect/Wii Sports where it was "Budget motion control multi". What is the equivalent for this SKU?

[edit]
If your brother in law is asking about the GamePad already you're not really doing a good job of convincing me that it would be an easier sell without it.

Edited on by skywake

NNID: skywake

AuthorMessage
Avatar

blaisedinsd

482. Posted:

Don't you see though he is more interested at a lower price? Don't you agree the games will sell the system? (Not the gamepad features)

Are you even aware the wii was a unique case? The motion control gimmic initially created huge demand. The install base was then so large it may have sold more games. This is not how it usually works in this industry. Do you understand that?

The games are the appeal of the wii u. The games are the core value. The console purchase is made like any other. Value vs cost. Do you understand this?

This is why my brother in law is more interested at $200. At that price he's not concerned if his kids play it, he can get it for himself so he can play the new Mario kart or whatever he is most interested in. He may be interested in the gamepad later, but he primary want access to the games. Why force him to buy the gamepad upfront to give him access to what you really want to sell anyway. Games. Do you understand this?

Additionally, the 3ds struggled at launch. Why? Because it cost too much. Value vs cost, remember. How did they fix 3ds? They slashed the price for one. This price cut was the first time ever they sold hw at a loss. People were laughing how this was proof 3ds was doomed. But they did something else too, they increased its value with games. It worked.

The wii u is the same thing. Value vs cost equals sale. The wii u's value is games and that value is increasing. Nintendo needs a way to get the cost down because lower cost equals more sales. Just like 3ds they need to do both. Wii u they can't cut cost because they started selling at a loss already ( 3ds launch price was profitable before the cut).

This is video game business 101. You must be young. How many "console wars" you been around for?

Edited on by blaisedinsd

blaisedinsd

AuthorMessage
Avatar

Mahe

483. Posted:

Some very good points made by @blaisedinsd here. The Gamepad defenders need to realize that some people just do not want the Gamepad, and it's hurting the Wii U.

Mahe

AuthorMessage
Avatar

blaisedinsd

484. Posted:

It doesn't need a tag line of " 2ds is marketed to kids "

The 2ds is about value vs cost ( and profit margins). It's not like the 3ds is pg-14 and 2ds is rated g.

blaisedinsd

AuthorMessage
Avatar

blaisedinsd

485. Posted:

Mahe wrote:

Some very good points made by @blaisedinsd here. The Gamepad defenders need to realize that some people just do not want the Gamepad, and it's hurting the Wii U.

Thank you.

I don't understand why they didn't learn from the 3DS. Perhaps the wii u was too far along in development. It makes sense after touch on Ds and motion on wii made those consoles insanely popular. They are not the norm. They screwed up 3ds and wii u because both gimmicks cost way too much to implement. This contributes to the console being underpowered relative to its price tag. The 3ds was saved by price cut and a floss of games. The price cut was not an option for wii u because it started selling at a loss. This is why Nintendo has almost been embarrassed. The 2ds came out of nowhere. The no gamepad option will as well. The option will come when they get the same combo of increased value and a price cut. It's there only hope to keep the console from being a complete disaster of a kind we have never seen.

blaisedinsd

AuthorMessage
Avatar

Mahe

486. Posted:

The 2DS has also taken a huge chunk of the "2DS/3DS family" sales already. There was obviously demand for a product like that, but you wouldn't have thought so based on many forum posters opinions who just couldn't see the point of the 2DS back when it was revealed.

It's the same thing with the Gamepad-less Wii U: release it and see how it does. If things go well, Wii U sales will increase. If not, the sales can't get any worse than they are now, either. For Wii U, the only direction to go is up, and dropping the ballast of the Gamepad is a reasonable way to do it.

Mahe

AuthorMessage
Avatar

blaisedinsd

487. Posted:

@mahe

I agree. I think the Mario Kart, Smash, and maybe even DK fans are people who are more interested in the games than the gamepad features.

Overall it all sort of makes sense to me how Nintendo works.

NES- the godfather, was basically unchallenged as it resurrected and in many ways birthed the industy (console gaming)

SNES- Genesis had a good head start and a solid library, but ultimately multi-plats favored Nintendo and Nintendo exclusives pulled out the "console war" victory due to superior games (although console power was thought to be important, it wasn't)

N64- innovated controller as usual but it was weird this time. Analog stick for 3D gaming was copied from here. The N64 went for power but also familiarity of cart as superior to optical. Limitations of the format hurt it. Lack of 3rd party hurt it. It sold basd on exclusive franchises but every body went to Sony who basically tried to be a cooler hipper nintendo.

Gamecube- the weird controller continues and contributes to Nintendos brand image. The console doesn't try to look cool it trie to look unique. The controller actually is good and introduces analog trigger which again are copied. But this is Nintendos power grab to get back what N64 lost. It was standard and powerful and got lots of multi-plat ports. This could be you main system and many fanboys adore it. WHy did it lose the console war then? Sony Had a big head start that went extremely well and had a huge install base that saw the value of it as DVD player too...by the time xbox and gamecube came out it was over....they were more powerful but it didn't matter. Console power is shown not to be a factor.

Wii- Nintendo realize console power didn't matter and goes for the gimmic and it succeed astronomically. If you look closely you will see motion control was sort of pointless for the systems best games, they were best as alternative fun and not really a core gaming experience. The gimmic is copied and kinect does pretty well and pushes it over the top. 360 sold more software Wii sold more hardware, not sure on the final numbers but this was the closes console war ever.

Wii U- they stayed with the idea that power doesn't matter and sunk their money in to a gimmic. It backfired. We will see what happens

Next- I think Nintendo will learn not to go for the gimmic. They are also learning not to go for being different. They are moving towards a more modern online system. They should still know that power doesn't matter. There best shot is to go for something basic and standard because being easy to port to helps get 3rd party games like the cube had even if no one bought them. A head start that they actually take advantage of. It makes sense to make your console play blurays if it plays basically bluray discs too. Get the online as close to the competition as possible. Get a head start and put all of your resources in to being powerful so that you stay relevant longer technologically. Overall we are seeing a convergence of console and PC gaming, I think the HD twins may be practically indistiguishable from a PC at this point. Nintendo would do well to stick to what traditionally makes console gaming more appealing than PC and hope well they chase the standard gaming market that the competition shoots past them and become too much like a PC.

Probably shouln't have bothered to post this. I don't really want to discuss it but my mind is sort of fixated on nintendo after however many pages this beast has gotten to.

I say the above as a person who usually only bought the console war victor. I had a 50-50 choice between Sega and NES and Duckhunt looked like the better game. NES, SNES, PS1, PS2, Wii.......at the end I got PS3 and 360 too (clearly I have more money now lol), Wii U, i probably get a PS 4 once it has enough games to justify the cost. Wii U has better games than Ps4 to me right now.

Edited on by blaisedinsd

blaisedinsd

AuthorMessage
Avatar

RancidVomit86

488. Posted:

@blaisedinsd Ok now you are just getting ridiculous. Nintendo isn't the only company to innovate and most of your points about control innovation from Nintendo are mute.

Untitled
This controller hit the market before the N64 and had both an analog stick and analog triggers.

Untitled
If any controller truly changed gaming it was the PS1 dual analog. Dual analog is really the control scheme that was copied. Even today dual analog setups is still the standard for controllers.

If we really want to get down to brass tacks here we can run the analog stick back to the Atari days. Also the Wii/360/PS3 was not the closest console war ever. In terms of sheer sales the Wii really out did the both. The 360/PS3 just maintained momentum the whole console life while the Wii slowly faded away from its big boom. The closest ever was most likely the SNES/Genesis. SNES didn't pull ahead of Genesis sales till late which tells you it was close and that wasn't so much due to 'superior games' but the fact that Sega was shooting itself in the foot and starting to self-implode.

Edited on by RancidVomit86

Xbox Live Gamer Tag - RancidVomit86
Battle.net - Dayman
Wii Code - 4335 5256 5880 9373
iOS Game Center - RancidVomit86

Writer for www.sega-addicts.com

AuthorMessage
Avatar

blaisedinsd

489. Posted:

Ha. I don't want to go another 30 pages on that topic

N64 was more the first killer app of the analog sick ps1 wasn't even hardly supported, most games had tank controls for the life of the system.

Edited on by blaisedinsd

blaisedinsd

AuthorMessage
Avatar

MAB

490. Posted:

Untitled

Untitled

I miss the sexy SEGA six button layout... So many Street Fighter & Mortal Kombat combos were right at the tip of my right thumb ;)

Forever living to inappropriately touch the mentalities of armchair internet gaming analysts and worthless console war fanboys... Let their sad stories burn eternally within my inbox furnace of hell ;)

Wii U & Steam Box DIGITAL 4 LYFE BABY!

AuthorMessage
Avatar

RancidVomit86

491. Posted:

@MAB I still say the Saturn pad was the best ever made

Xbox Live Gamer Tag - RancidVomit86
Battle.net - Dayman
Wii Code - 4335 5256 5880 9373
iOS Game Center - RancidVomit86

Writer for www.sega-addicts.com

AuthorMessage
Avatar

Jazzer94

492. Posted:

@MAB The Snes was always better for fighters the megadrive just felt awkward in comparison.

Edited on by Jazzer94

The Jazzloggery
Once you see you can never unsee Everyone's favorite videogame character
I keep getting this feeling that I should write something down here........................

3DS Friend Code: 5155-3100-6367 | Nintendo Network ID: Justinius94

AuthorMessage
Avatar

RancidVomit86

493. Posted:

@Jazzer94 Don't tell me we about to go down this route. The inevitable nobody wins Nintendo vs Sega conversations. ;)

Xbox Live Gamer Tag - RancidVomit86
Battle.net - Dayman
Wii Code - 4335 5256 5880 9373
iOS Game Center - RancidVomit86

Writer for www.sega-addicts.com

AuthorMessage
Avatar

MAB

494. Posted:

The SEGA 8 directional point D-pad + 6 face buttons were arcade fighter perfect ;)

Forever living to inappropriately touch the mentalities of armchair internet gaming analysts and worthless console war fanboys... Let their sad stories burn eternally within my inbox furnace of hell ;)

Wii U & Steam Box DIGITAL 4 LYFE BABY!

AuthorMessage
Avatar

RancidVomit86

495. Posted:

MAB wrote:

The SEGA 8 directional point D-pad + 6 face buttons were arcade fighter perfect ;)

Untitled

Xbox Live Gamer Tag - RancidVomit86
Battle.net - Dayman
Wii Code - 4335 5256 5880 9373
iOS Game Center - RancidVomit86

Writer for www.sega-addicts.com

AuthorMessage
Avatar

MAB

496. Posted:

@RancidVomit86 Too bloody right mate... I guess these Ninty boys are just gonna have to ↓

Untitled

Forever living to inappropriately touch the mentalities of armchair internet gaming analysts and worthless console war fanboys... Let their sad stories burn eternally within my inbox furnace of hell ;)

Wii U & Steam Box DIGITAL 4 LYFE BABY!

AuthorMessage
Avatar

Nintenjoe64

497. Posted:

I love the fact this conversation has turned into SEGA vs Nintendo and Nintendo vs. the rest! Here is my weak attempt at Nintendo defence.

The Dualshock / dual analog PS controller was actually a copy of the 'galore' controller configuration from Goldeneye:

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/iYkePNfVImI/maxresdefault.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/08/pod-rac...

and Sega's 'NiGHTs controller was a copy of the NES pro controller:

http://www.i-mockery.com/minimocks/nes/nes-max.jpg

I only posted this to get my avatar as the forum's thumbnail.

AuthorMessage
Avatar

Captain_Toad

498. Posted:

blaisedinsd wrote:

Don't you see though he is more interested at a lower price? Don't you agree the games will sell the system? (Not the gamepad features)

Are you even aware the wii was a unique case? The motion control gimmic initially created huge demand. The install base was then so large it may have sold more games. This is not how it usually works in this industry. Do you understand that?

The games are the appeal of the wii u. The games are the core value. The console purchase is made like any other. Value vs cost. Do you understand this?

This is why my brother in law is more interested at $200. At that price he's not concerned if his kids play it, he can get it for himself so he can play the new Mario kart or whatever he is most interested in. He may be interested in the gamepad later, but he primary want access to the games. Why force him to buy the gamepad upfront to give him access to what you really want to sell anyway. Games. Do you understand this?

Additionally, the 3ds struggled at launch. Why? Because it cost too much. Value vs cost, remember. How did they fix 3ds? They slashed the price for one. This price cut was the first time ever they sold hw at a loss. People were laughing how this was proof 3ds was doomed. But they did something else too, they increased its value with games. It worked.

The wii u is the same thing. Value vs cost equals sale. The wii u's value is games and that value is increasing. Nintendo needs a way to get the cost down because lower cost equals more sales. Just like 3ds they need to do both. Wii u they can't cut cost because they started selling at a loss already ( 3ds launch price was profitable before the cut).

This is video game business 101. You must be young. How many "console wars" you been around for?

Then how is the PS4 that is $100 more with not as much games out is selling more than the WiiU at the current time?

Still Mariobro4. Just Toad-happy. Le-Ribbit.
Give me Jigglypuff with green combat-band Sakurai. That's all.
Toadloggery and a Youtube Channel
Know retro games? Try Retro Clue!
Games are games ppl. Enjoy 'em.
Captain Toad 4 Smash!
I gave in to darkness to have this bio.

3DS Friend Code: 3566-2311-3009 | Nintendo Network ID: Mariobro4

AuthorMessage
Avatar

RancidVomit86

499. Posted:

@Captain_Toad Nice I didn't even read that comment to catch that. Good debunk of his case

Xbox Live Gamer Tag - RancidVomit86
Battle.net - Dayman
Wii Code - 4335 5256 5880 9373
iOS Game Center - RancidVomit86

Writer for www.sega-addicts.com

AuthorMessage
Avatar

blaisedinsd

500. Posted:

Ps4 is selling better based on its brand. It's marketing image.

Wii u has already lost its third part support it had at launch. Nintendo is a different market. Sony and Microsoft compete head to head. Sony is winning and that why they are selling.

The wii u needs to be attractive as a secondary console for some one who gets a sony or Microsoft box.

I broke down the 2 reasons the wii sold well. Without those 2 reasons the wii u is worse off than the gamecube. It's more expensive and less powerful with less third party support. The wii us best hope to be more successful than the gamecube is to retain as much of the wii brand userbase as possible

blaisedinsd

Sorry, this topic has been locked.