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Topic: What does Nintendo have to lose by making the gamepad "optional"?

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SCAR392

161. Posted:

@Blaisedinsd
You're still getting the GamePad for the same ammount as a regular controller. You have to consider what the original price was.

Let's just say that McDonald's has a permanent deal, where if you buy a Big Mac by itself, you get the fries and drink. Refusing the fries and drink will not lower the price of the Big Mac, because it's part of the deal. What you do with the extra stuff, is your own personal choice, not McDonald's.

"They should just lower the price of the Big Mac to $3 if they're going to give me fries and a drink with it for $4"
The deal wouldn't exist at that point, because they're giving you immediate savings of $1, in exchange for $3 worth of extras. It's all about proportion.

Edited on by SCAR392

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blaisedinsd

162. Posted:

Jazzer94 wrote:

Anything that increases sales, whether for a short time or not, is what Nintendo needs to be doing.

I have to strongly disagree with this statement consistent (even modest) long-term sales are much more valuable to Nintendo then a short burst.

A sale is a sale is a sale. They are all drops in the bucket.

For this point to have validity it needs to be explained how a "starter" SKU would hurt long term sales to gain a short term boost.

As much as people have trouble getting the concept through their heads, selling a big mac with no fries doesn't mean you don't sell fries anymore. It is not the same thing as completely dropping the gamepad going forward and not selling it anymore. There is not huge gamepad support in the future that is being risked. You are not going to sell less fries because you give your customers choices beyond just a value meal, if anything you will sell more fries. The segmented user base is seemless from the software side once implemented, the console simply has a gamepad connected or it doesn't. Only when you don't have a gamepad you can't play these 5 games. A gamepad does enhance everything if you have it, but does not need to be a requirement. You have nothing to gain by forcing people to buy it who don't want it.

Edited on by blaisedinsd

blaisedinsd

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SCAR392

163. Posted:

parkerjames wrote:

Yeah drop the gamepad and make a Wii Sports Club bundle for $249 and watch it sell millions....oh wait...

You can't even play Wii Sports Club Golf, without it.

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blaisedinsd

164. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

@Blaisedinsd
You're still getting the GamePad for the same ammount as a regular controller. You have to consider what the original price was.

Let's just say that McDonald's has a permanent deal, where if you buy a Big Mac by itself, you get the fries and drink. Refusing the fries and drink will not lower the price of the Big Mac, because it's part of the deal. What you do with the extra stuff, is you're own personal choice, not McDonald's.

"They should just lower the price of the Big Mac to $3 if they're going to give me fries and a drink with it for $4"
The deal wouldn't exist at that point, because they're giving you immediate savings of $1, in exchange for $3 worth of extras. It's all about proportion.

I think your math is all screwed up because you keep looking at this from the perspective of the consumer.

McDonalds is ridiculous and foolish to have such business practices. Why in the world would the do such a thing?

In the Wii U case, they thought the fries and drink was a great deal that would sell a bunch. If it's not happening why in the World wouldn't they sell their products outside of the value meal?

blaisedinsd

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Donalp15

165. Posted:

blaisedinsd wrote:

Anything that increases sales, whether for a short time or not, is what Nintendo needs to be doing.

This is so wrong. Selling 100,000 units now is no where near as important, as thinking about the Wii U in the long.
Cutting every corner and scrap, just to sell a few consoles now will not help things. It will leave a console with no discernible features, no support (because if Nintendo is so willing to screw it over, why would third parties care?), and still NO GAMES.

Actually getting games on the console, will outweigh cutting corners just to make a quick buck

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Jazzer94

166. Posted:

@blaisedinsd I'm thankful you are not in charge of Nintendo as you would run them straight into the ground with your ideas of how to run a business.

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SCAR392

167. Posted:

@Blaisedinsd
I am a consumer, so my perspective is that of a consumer. Go figure.

How about this:
You buy a Big Mac for $4. There's a deal where you pay $1 more for fries and a drink, but you have to buy the Big Mac in order to get said deal. Those items regularly cost an extra $3.50, so you're saving $2.50 if you buy, and actually want a meal.

It's more worthwhile for consumers to have a deal like that, because there's value in getting more for less. At this point, the GamePad only costs $30 more for you to have. You're willing to sacrifice that for a $15 controller that Nintendo would still be losing money on, so that you can pay $80 later. You're better off just having the GamePad if it costs less in the bundle.

EDIT: Also, let's just say that everyone who goes to McDonald's for a Big Mac always buys the meal for an extra $1, so they just start charging $5.

Edited on by SCAR392

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ogo79

168. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

@Blaisedinsd
I am a consumer, so my perspective is that of a consumer. Go figure.

How about this:
You buy a Big Mac for $4. There's a deal where you pay $1 more for fries and a drink, but you have to buy the Big Mac in order to get said deal. Those items regularly cost an extra $3.50, so you're saving $2.50 if you buy, and actually want a meal.

It's more worthwhile for consumers to have a deal like that, because there's value in getting more for less. At this point, the GamePad only costs $30 more for you to have. You're willing to sacrifice that for a $15 controller that Nintendo would still be losing money on, so that you can pay $80 later. You're better off just having the GamePad if it costs less in the bundle.

EDIT: Also, let's just say that everyone who goes to McDonald's for a Big Mac always buys the meal for an extra $1, so they just start charging $5.

yeah but what if theres this person that im using for free food and they work at mcdonalds?

Edited on by ogo79

the_shpydar wrote:
As @ogo79 said, the SNS-RZ-USA is a prime giveaway that it's not a legit retail cart.
And yes, he is (usually) always right, and he is (almost) the sexiest gamer out there (not counting me) ;)

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SCAR392

169. Posted:

ogo79 wrote:

SCAR392 wrote:

@Blaisedinsd
I am a consumer, so my perspective is that of a consumer. Go figure.

How about this:
You buy a Big Mac for $4. There's a deal where you pay $1 more for fries and a drink, but you have to buy the Big Mac in order to get said deal. Those items regularly cost an extra $3.50, so you're saving $2.50 if you buy, and actually want a meal.

It's more worthwhile for consumers to have a deal like that, because there's value in getting more for less. At this point, the GamePad only costs $30 more for you to have. You're willing to sacrifice that for a $15 controller that Nintendo would still be losing money on, so that you can pay $80 later. You're better off just having the GamePad if it costs less in the bundle.

EDIT: Also, let's just say that everyone who goes to McDonald's for a Big Mac always buys the meal for an extra $1, so they just start charging $5.

yeah but what if theres this person that im using for free food and they work at mcdonalds?

You're on your own with that one. If you're getting free food, there should be absolutely no complaints, yes?

Edited on by theblackdragon

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Super_Gravy

170. Posted:

I always get McDouble and Junior Chicken at McDonalds since it is so cheap and filling. I just put the Junior Chicken between the two patty from the McDouble. So basically Junior Chicken go into McDouble to become one big cheese and chicken burger! So in the summer I get an large drink with it and all those cost less than $5 Canadian!

Ahh good times! Man I haven't been to McDonalds for months. Oh is this about Nintendo? Umm… McDonalds should sell optional gamepad so… I'm still in topic!

Umm… Care to have some gravy?

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SCAR392

171. Posted:

They do have Mario toys in UK Happy Meals. This is valid proof that everything is ok, just the way it is.

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Jazzer94

172. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

They will have Mario toys in UK Happy Meals. This is valid proof that everything is ok, just the way it is.

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ogo79

173. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

You're on your own with that one. If you're getting free food, there should be absolutely no complaints, yes?

one time she brought me a few hamburgers and they all had bites taken out of them.
i will be keeping my phone off on valentines day, thatl teach her

the_shpydar wrote:
As @ogo79 said, the SNS-RZ-USA is a prime giveaway that it's not a legit retail cart.
And yes, he is (usually) always right, and he is (almost) the sexiest gamer out there (not counting me) ;)

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blaisedinsd

174. Posted:

Donalp15 wrote:

blaisedinsd wrote:

Anything that increases sales, whether for a short time or not, is what Nintendo needs to be doing.

This is so wrong. Selling 100,000 units now is no where near as important, as thinking about the Wii U in the long.
Cutting every corner and scrap, just to sell a few consoles now will not help things. It will leave a console with no discernible features, no support (because if Nintendo is so willing to screw it over, why would third parties care?), and still NO GAMES.

Actually getting games on the console, will outweigh cutting corners just to make a quick buck

Except the gamepad will still exist and be sold just as before. The Wii U will still have all those features. It doesn't lose anything by giving people an option.

It would only effect people who buy the starter SKU. Who would be getting screwed over? Those people are buying that SKU because it interests them more than the gamepad SKU. How does that harm people who have a gamepad?

While I agree that long term sales are more important, unless you can give some kind of reasoning how this SKU would harm long term sales you don't really have a point.

I agree that games are what will sell the console, not the gamepad. So how does some percentage of people choosing not to buy a gamepad hurt long term sales? Loss of imaginary third party gamepad support that could have really made the difference is quite the reach. Total confusion among consumers making them stay away from the console? I think making it optional actually eliminates lots of confusion about the Wii U (Oh, so the gamepad enhances games on the system but I don't need it outside a couple of games....that makes things much easier to understand)

Edited on by blaisedinsd

blaisedinsd

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AJ_Lethal

175. Posted:

blaisedinsd wrote:

Anything that increases sales, whether for a short time or not, is what Nintendo needs to be doing.

Congratulations, you are in line with what's wrong in this industry.

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DefHalan

176. Posted:

@blaisedinsd
Lets try to figure out what happens if Nintendo makes the GamePad optional and makes a SKU without the GamePad. No GamePad SKU is a lower price(lets say $250) so Nintendo generates some sales (lets say it is 1 million sales). Now you have two SKUs 1 with the GamePad and 1 without. If Nintendo continues to make games that use the GamePad that means anyone that got the No GamePad SKU can't play it(without buying lets say a $100 GamePad) so some of their install base aren't customers for their games. If Nintendo makes games with optional GamePad support then that is money and time being wasted on something not everyone will be able to enjoy (so that means Nintendo is paying more for development, then they should be for the No GamePad customers). If Nintendo completely drops the GamePad in all their future games then Nintendo is putting yet another sour taste in their customer's mouth(similar to what happen near the end of the Wii, no games). Nintendo can develop games cheaper and people without a GamePad will enjoy those games but people with the GamePad will feel ripped-off and that would hurt Nintendo's sales.

Now lets look at what happens when Nintendo keeps the GamePad in all Wii U SKUs. 100% of the console install base are customers for 100% of the games, regardless if the game uses the GamePad. This means all their development time and money is spent on things 100% of their customers will actually use. Nintendo keeps supporting the Wii U making new games, the longer the console is alive the more reasons people will have to buy it. The more developers (including Nintendo) spend with the GamePad and developing for the GamePad the more unique ideas we will see. The more reasons Nintendo gives people to buy the Wii U the more successful it will become.

Overall for a short-term gain, sure dropping the GamePad could get Nintendo quick money. For the Long-term, Nintendo just needs to make better software for their Hardware, also lowering the difficulty for developers to use the Hardware would be smart... looks like that is what Nintendo is planning on doing. Game development takes time. These changes Nintendo is making won't hit the consumer for at least a year. (I am not saying the changes they are making will be enough but it is in the right direction)

Edited on by DefHalan

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blaisedinsd

177. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

@Blaisedinsd
I am a consumer, so my perspective is that of a consumer. Go figure.

How about this:
You buy a Big Mac for $4. There's a deal where you pay $1 more for fries and a drink, but you have to buy the Big Mac in order to get said deal. Those items regularly cost an extra $3.50, so you're saving $2.50 if you buy, and actually want a meal.

It's more worthwhile for consumers to have a deal like that, because there's value in getting more for less. At this point, the GamePad only costs $30 more for you to have. You're willing to sacrifice that for a $15 controller that Nintendo would still be losing money on, so that you can pay $80 later. You're better off just having the GamePad if it costs less in the bundle.

EDIT: Also, let's just say that everyone who goes to McDonald's for a Big Mac always buys the meal for an extra $1, so they just start charging $5.

Please refer to the title of the thread "What does Nintendo have to lose....."

I think you are having an entirely different conversation. The value to the consumer is not the issue at hand.

How does it cost me $30 to have a gamepad? It costs $300 and it comes with a bunch of other stuff. If I need to replace it i have to order from Nintendo and pay whatever they are charging (I believe its in the range of $100-$150).

You are basically talking about why would anyone want to buy a Wii U with no gamepad. This is not the right thread for that discussion. It is completely off topic.

blaisedinsd

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SCAR392

178. Posted:

@blaisdinsd
Your topic is off topic, because Nintendo already said that they won't make a GamePad-less SKU.

That already rules out the entire thread, which is why we're explaining to you why they won't offer it separately.

Edited on by SCAR392

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renaryuugufan92

179. Posted:

blaisedinsd wrote:

SCAR392 wrote:

@Blaisedinsd
I am a consumer, so my perspective is that of a consumer. Go figure.

How about this:
You buy a Big Mac for $4. There's a deal where you pay $1 more for fries and a drink, but you have to buy the Big Mac in order to get said deal. Those items regularly cost an extra $3.50, so you're saving $2.50 if you buy, and actually want a meal.

It's more worthwhile for consumers to have a deal like that, because there's value in getting more for less. At this point, the GamePad only costs $30 more for you to have. You're willing to sacrifice that for a $15 controller that Nintendo would still be losing money on, so that you can pay $80 later. You're better off just having the GamePad if it costs less in the bundle.

EDIT: Also, let's just say that everyone who goes to McDonald's for a Big Mac always buys the meal for an extra $1, so they just start charging $5.

Please refer to the title of the thread "What does Nintendo have to lose....."

I think you are having an entirely different conversation. The value to the consumer is not the issue at hand.

How does it cost me $30 to have a gamepad? It costs $300 and it comes with a bunch of other stuff. If I need to replace it i have to order from Nintendo and pay whatever they are charging (I believe its in the range of $100-$150).

You are basically talking about why would anyone want to buy a Wii U with no gamepad. This is not the right thread for that discussion. It is completely off topic.

Since March makes one year since I've owned a Wii U please allow me to throw my two cents in on this. I personally use the pro controller more than the Gamepad (outside of NFS: Most Wanted U and the 3-6 levels in SM3DW that require it, eshop & miiverse) and I feel that it might actually benefit Nintendo if they make the Gamepad a option rather than a in box requirment. The gamepad costs around $80 to manufacture so the Wii U won't be getting another official price cut as stated by Iwata himself, and the gamepad can be safely assumed as the primary reason for his words. Also we must take into consideration that unlike the Wii mote and gamepad isn't an easy thing to wrap your head around heck even developers have a hard time on figuring out what its good for outside of maps and item boxes (still used the pro controller with WWHD). Then theres the whole ruining the consumer thing, first off consumers STILL think that the gamepad is a add on to the original Wii, last week I had a Walmart manager try to sell me a Wii mini because he thought that the Wii U was just a overpriced controller, a... manager, think about that. If Nintendo dropped the gamepad the only thing they'd have to lose is new artists on Miiverse and the costs of re-designing the Wii U box and recalling all Wii U unites on SHELVES in order to package them in with a Pro Controller and patching all games that REQUIRE the gamepad, but in the long run it would make the Wii U cheaper to produce and potentially get rid of consumer confustion, hey look a traditional controller and a new game console by nintendo, huh a new game console, OMG! Then Nintendo can sell gamepads based on demand on their own rather than in a packaged box that is still confusing customers well into the consoles second year. That was my two cents.
Personal controller usuage since last March
Gamepad: 13-20 hours-ish
Pro Controller: well over 160 hours.

Edited on by renaryuugufan92

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Beetlejuice

180. Posted:

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Beetlejuice

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