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Topic: What does Nintendo have to lose by making the gamepad "optional"?

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skywake

141. Posted:

ferthepoet wrote:

whether its different or not its not the point... the point is that people argued against it before it happened and now defend it after it happened

How is the fact that it's an entirely different sort of thing not the point? That's the entire point. The 2DS made sense as a cut-down model because while it did kill one of the key selling points it retained full compatibility with all 3DS titles. The DSi made sense as an upgraded model to the DS because it added more features than it subtracted. Making a GamePad-less SKU fits neither of these. It kills compatibility with a fair number of Wii U titles, removes the key selling point of the console and you get nothing for the trouble.

It's not win, win, loss or even loss, loss, win. It's just all round loss. There's nothing to be gained from it. If it's cutting prices you want then remove the optional extras like Wii backwards compatibility first. At least then you're not breaking compatibility with the Wii U library in an effort to save a few dollars.

Edited on by skywake

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Goginho

142. Posted:

Everything.

Goginho

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SCAR392

143. Posted:

@ferthepoet
You're ignoring that the situations are different, so they have different points.

No one argued 2DS. They argued that 3D should be dropped entirely. 3DS still exists, so that's not dropping the feature.

Dropping the GamePad would be dropping software and the OS to levels that would require it to be purchased, anyway.

It would be like buying a car that doesn't have wheels. You still have to buy the wheels, otherwise the other investment is pointless.

Candy without sugar. A sandwich without bread. A bridge without planks. A house without a roof, and so on.

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skywake

144. Posted:

I still think the best analogy is the 3DS given people are so stuck on it. Getting rid of the GamePad is not like getting rid of the 3D on the 3DS. It's more like getting rid of the second screen on the DS. Yes some games on the DS didn't use the bottom screens and some of the ones that did use it weren't selling it as a feature. However getting rid of it divides the library in two.

Or it's like saying that the Wii should have dropped the WiiMote entirely early in its life because the core gamer didn't like waggle. All of a sudden the big games that have come out don't work with the new model. Just a hunch, but I think that making your big games not work with one of the major SKUs anymore is maybe a bigger problem than the few dollars you might save by using a different controller.

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Jazzer94

145. Posted:

This such a pointless debate the gamepad is an integral part of the Wii U having an optional sku without gamepad will just devalue the Wii U as a whole and split the user base with either on or both groups having a lesser experience. What is needed is games and software that really utilize the controller that is what should be Nintendo goal not creating a brief increase in sales

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Beetlejuice

146. Posted:

Knock it off, please, no one's forcing you to participate in this thread if you're not interested — TBD

Edited on by theblackdragon

Beetlejuice

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AJ_Lethal

147. Posted:

ferthepoet wrote:

that happen with the 2DS... they argued against anyone who suggested dropping 3D.... then when the 2DS was revealed many were calling it a joke or a hoax... and once it was evident it was a real thing..... everybody surprisingly change tune and then everybody was like well its no for us but it has a market blah blah blah...

Except that the 3DS was in a good position when the 2DS launched, not to mention the reasons behind the 2DS existence are other than "oh noes, 3DS is struggling!"

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rockodoodle

148. Posted:

So if two people are playing the same game, then the person w/out the gamepad is having a lesser experience? Split the user base? Do you think there will be animousity towards those who use or don't use the gamepad?

Look- the game pad is may favorite feature of the Wii U. It's a great controller and differentiator. While I don't think they should do it just yet, it should be in the back of their minds. Innovation is great, but if the market doesn't want it, then Nintendo shouldn't ignore that either.

Jazzer94 wrote:

This such a pointless debate the gamepad is an integral part of the Wii U having an optional sku without gamepad will just devalue the Wii U as a whole and split the user base with either on or both groups having a lesser experience. What is needed is games and software that really utilize the controller that is what should be Nintendo goal not creating a brief increase in sales

rockodoodle

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blaisedinsd

149. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

You're throwing away the fries in your value meal. Do you understand?

Some people don't want fries with their value meal. You will sell more Big Macs if you don't force everyone to buy fries with it. Don't you understand how foolish it would be for them not to offer the big ac with out fries?

blaisedinsd

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GuSolarFlare

150. Posted:

Goginho wrote:

Everything except the 3DS

fixed

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SCAR392

151. Posted:

blaisedinsd wrote:

SCAR392 wrote:

You're throwing away the fries in your value meal. Do you understand?

Some people don't want fries with their value meal. You will sell more Big Macs if you don't force everyone to buy fries with it. Don't you understand how foolish it would be for them not to offer the big ac with out fries?

You ordered the value meal, though. If you order the value meal, you get fries. That's all there is to it. If you don't want the fries in your value meal, what do you do with them?

The Wii U is a value meal that doesn't allow you to exclude the fries, because it's a value meal.

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Beetlejuice

152. Posted:

Wii-U = Value Meal

Beetlejuice

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GuSolarFlare

153. Posted:

ok this thread made me hungry! time for a valuable meal(oh wai it's too early for dinner, here!!! :O NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!) :p

looking forward to Codename S.T.E.A.M.
salty tears tenderize true beef
my Backloggery
my Banner made by Dark-Luigi!
My Galaxy Bio also by Dark-Luigi!
All the lights in the sky are stars
running away from reality is betraying yourself and those who care about you

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Jazzer94

154. Posted:

Lesser experience as a whole not game by game, of cause its not going to apply to each individual game the same so your statement is a bit silly. Of course releasing a gamepadless Wii U is going to split the user base and I'm not referring to some owners feeling Superior or arguments between the two sides I'm talking about the effect on game development for the console do you really think Nintendo or any developer for that matter will try to use the gamepad as an important part of a game if they know that some of the user base do not have access and what if the Wii U w/o gamepad overtakes the sales of Wii U with gamepad?

rockodoodle wrote:

So if two people are playing the same game, then the person w/out the gamepad is having a lesser experience? Split the user base? Do you think there will be animousity towards those who use or don't use the gamepad?

Look- the game pad is may favorite feature of the Wii U. It's a great controller and differentiator. While I don't think they should do it just yet, it should be in the back of their minds. Innovation is great, but if the market doesn't want it, then Nintendo shouldn't ignore that either.

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blaisedinsd

155. Posted:

That analogy has just become silly.

The wii u is a value meal and Nintendo only sells value meals?

A no gamepad sku is not about throwing away your fries, it's about realizing the foolishness of not selling Big Macs without fries. I think everyone can agree that would be foolish. I think you can agree too that selling Big Macs alone does not mean that fries are not a wonderful thing to sell with Big Macs.

The gamepad is not as integrated as the second screen of the Ds. I can play my wii u with no tv. I can play my wii u with no gamepad. I can play my wii u with only one screen, it's designed to be that way, to have that option.

The Wii's user base was segmented as well. We still got Skyward Sword. The gamepad's install base is going to be a larger segment than motion plus, a skyward sword is still going to come even if not everyone has motion plus or gamepads.

Edited on by blaisedinsd

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Donalp15

156. Posted:

Even if the gamepad is dropped/optional, the small price decrease will only spark sales for a short time. People want games and third party support, the gamepads demise will not solve any of this.
This is the real problem, the gamepad has down nothing wrong and is taking all the blame.
Ok, it can take some blame, but games are by FAR more important an issue.

Edited on by Donalp15

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blaisedinsd

157. Posted:

Donalp15 wrote:

Even if the gamepad is dropped/optional, the small price decrease will only spark sales for a short time. People want games and third party support, the gamepads demise will not solve any of this.
This is the real problem, the gamepad has down nothing wrong and is taking all the blame.

The gamepads demise is just a likely as the demise of fries if you sell big macs with out them. Sure you may worry that no one will buy fries anymore, but if thats your only reason to continue value meals as the only option offered than you are not a smart businessman.

The gamepad is expensive to make and causing us to lose money when we sell value meals. No one loses anything if we also sell fries and bigmacs at a higher profit margin outside of the value meal.

Anything that increases sales, whether for a short time or not, is what Nintendo needs to be doing.

Games and third party support have nothing to do with keeping the gamepad as requirement for every Wii U system sold. The only fear is that the gamepad is supported less and I don't think that is of primary concern, it's not supported well now and doesn't look to be going forward either.

Overall the Wii U looks to hopefully reach gamecube numbers at this point. The gamepad as the hook for this console is a failure. I don't personally feel it is a failure, but as far as convincing the masses to buy the console it is. This is not going to change one way or the other. Yeah, the starter set will ignite fanboy mocking, but that stuff doesn't matter anymore than people laughing about how ridiculous the 2DS is. The Wii U has no reason to continue to bet everything on the gamepad. The gamepad is expensive to produce and is the major factor making further price cuts too hard to take at this time.

Edited on by blaisedinsd

blaisedinsd

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parkerjames

158. Posted:

Yeah drop the gamepad and make a Wii Sports Club bundle for $249 and watch it sell millions....oh wait...

parkerjames

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Jazzer94

159. Posted:

Anything that increases sales, whether for a short time or not, is what Nintendo needs to be doing.

I have to strongly disagree with this statement consistent (even modest) long-term sales are much more valuable to Nintendo then a short burst.

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OptometristLime

160. Posted:

The only thing that makes the Game Pad appear tangential is the fact that it's not literally glued onto the console in some manner. As it was designed the Wii U console plus Game Pad is considered to be one unified experience, removing the 'Pad gimps the efficiency of the processing under the hood. Had the designers considered the Game Pad to be an optional peripheral for the device, they would not have tethered processing capability to the controller unit. That's why it literally hinders the console's ability to compete once that component becomes optional - hardware that was optimized for multiple streams of visual output now is rendered obsolete. Graphics and processing power that could have been used to match the competing systems.

A lower price-point is counter-productive when the consumer is losing value in a way that parallels the lower cost. You've stated that the Game Pad is desirable yet the only strategy you can conceive of separates the system from what truly is the heart and soul of the experience.

You are what you eat from your head to your feet.

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