Topic: Was this E3 the final nail in the coffin for the Wii U?

@Haru17: I could say the same for Retro. The key guys that worked on Metroid Prime left ages ago. Retro is no better than any other developer when it comes to Metroid now.

How do you know who were the key guys? I've not worked for a game dev but I've worked in similar types of situations and in my experience you can never tell from the outside who the actual driving force of the success is. Sometimes it's the directors and department heads. Sometimes they're just there to organize the team who are supplying the creativity.
Based on Tropical Freeze, Retro have still got some nice skills!

The only reason this thread exists is because we didn't see Metroid or Zelda for the Wii U at this E3. If we saw either (or both) of those, regardless of the other titles, everyone'd be happy.

This E3 wasn't going to change the Wii U's situation by much. Personally, I'll be happy playing Xenoblade Chronicles X, Devil's Third, Fatal Frame, Star Fox Zero, and SMTxFE. Then, I'll enjoy Zelda U when it comes out. While I wait, I'll be playing Smash Bros., Splatoon, Mario Kart 8, and the rest of my gaming backlog.

Exactly!!! That's the problem!!! We're all excited for the same games! Nothing new and impressive was shown at the horrible Digital Event! Nothing!!! Especially for Wii U!!! Us Wii U owners are literally hyped for the same games before the Digital Event!!

Ehh, I'd argue that Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam was something. Also, I wouldn't necessarily have called Metroid impressive either. It likely would have been more of the same.

Except they have a bunch of 3D animators, programmers, and artists that can work in HD so /point. I can sling excrement on any AAA dev I don't like, From Soft, Monolith Soft, Soft Soft, but that doesn't mean they don't have good experience making HD AAA games.

And @Operative, what is the 'Metroid art style?' From what I remember there were pixel art games, the Prime games, and then the awkward 3D graphics in Other M and Federation Force. So the only great art style that can be replicated in future games is perhaps the Prime aesthetic. The 2D games need a whole other art style. I'm always a big proponent of 3D being 3D and 2D being 2D, so instead of another ugly 2.5D NSMB-looking game, I hope Metroid adopts the Vanilla Soft / Ubiart style of animating 2D art beautifully. It would make the games visually distinct from any 3D Metroids as well as looking great even on handhelds.

Of course, that's assuming Nintendo deign to make another game where the protagonist has LADY PARTS, oh my, the thought!

The art style in general has always been more mature/realistic looking is what I meant. Normal proportions, regular character models, tonally more serious. Federation Force is the first major change from that. I wouldn't call Other M's style awkward though. Seemed the same as any other Metroid game, honestly.

Yes, but riddle me this: Why does Samus look like a banana sour apple laffy taffy?

Haha, well yeah the color scheme is a bit strange, but at least she still looks normal. Personally, I prefer orange. That suit looks sleeker, but too bright.

... Still better than the monstrosity known as Federation Force.

Oh, internet...

Anyway, a way to evolve the Prime gameplay would be giving Samus' (normal-sized) pauldrons the ability to float as remote drones (ala, The Darkness). Mapped to RB & LB (or ZRT, or whatever they're called on the gamepad), they could drop morph ball bombs or just ram into enemies. OT, I know, but wha'dya think?

At first glance, this statement seems profound and true. I was even all like, "Ah! That makes a lot of sense!"

But you know what? No. Not buying it. We all KNEW Zelda U wasn't going to be at E3 (maybe some of us were hoping against hope for a little tease, but articles were running for weeks that Zelda wouldn't be shown), so that's taken out of the equation. We weren't going to see it no matter what, and we all know (and knew) it's coming Holiday 2016, so the Zelda point is moot. Basically, it wasn't "missing" because we were told it was going to be missing.

Now the Metroid thing? At the risk of inspiring ire from, well, everyone... I'm NOT a huge Metroid fan. I've played most of the Metroid games from the NES up, and it was never really a big franchise for me. In short: I actually don't think Metroid is as big a deal as the internet makes it out to be. I think Metroid fans only BECAME Metroid fans with the Prime series. Go ahead and crucify me, but I think that statement is correct. And, for the most part (again - get mad if you want), people who started loving Metroid with the Prime games tend to be younger (and may ONLY equate Metroid with the Prime games, which is totally not accurate). Late teens. Early 20s. Exactly the people who frequent the internets and tend to get very loud and whiny about gaming topics, making us think that certain things are bigger travesties than they really are.

So, basically? I don't think your statement is correct. We knew Zelda is coming anyway. And even IF Metroid were to be announced, it wouldn't be any saving grace for the Wii U. We would STILL be getting the NX in 2016 because, from a business standpoint, the Wii U is done like so much burnt toast.

@rallydefault: My statement wasn't saying that the NX would be coming any sooner or later...just that this thread wouldn't exist if Zelda U or a Metroid Prime 4 was shown off at E3.

That's really it. All of the other lackluster, underwhelming, or disappointments would have been completely overshadowed by more Zelda U footage or a Metroid Prime Wii U reveal. Think about it, if either of those WERE in the Digital Event, Nintendo would have had a title to "compete" with the other conferences. Title(s) to compete with Halo 5, Uncharted, Fallout 4, and Final Fantasy.

Personally, I'm 20. I didn't play Metroid until I bought Prime (GCN) to play on my Wii. From there, I played the original and Fusion (Ambassador), Prime Hunters, Return of Samus (haven't beaten), Super Metroid (haven't beaten), Other M, Prime 2, and Prime 3 (haven't beaten). Metroid fans had been Metroid fans since before Prime, but Prime definitely has left its mark on those around my age...

I think I went a bit off topic there, but I'll repeat it again, my statement wasn't to say that the NX's release would come any sooner or later, just that people's opinion of the Wii U (and the Digital Event) wouldn't be as sour, if at all, if we'd seen more Zelda U footage or had a Metroid Prime U announced.

Ok.

And, for the most part (again - get mad if you want),

I'll take 'astounded in the face of agist bigotry' for 200.

...people who started loving Metroid with the Prime games tend to be younger...

Stereotype.

Late teens.

Stereotype.

Early 20s.

Stereotype.

Exactly the people who frequent the internets...

Two-for-one Stereotype.

and tend to get very loud and whiny about gaming topics...

Stereotype.

rallydefault

Right, lovely person.

@Blast: Getting it, but not really getting it. So first off, IMO, LM DM > LM (GCN). It had more content and a more involved story. More puzzles; really more of everything. The only fair argument I might've considered (and this DID bother me at first) was that the linear mission set up seemed to undermine the exploration and discovery that made the first game good. Except the thing is, every mansion has a mission that lets you roam the mansions to explore and discover everything. On top of this, each mansion had a set of collectibles to find to get the most out of the exploration in each mission, as some of these wouldn't be available in the free-roam missions, IIRC. So aside from that which I just countered already, I can't think of one legitimate gripe I had with that game.

Second, you are aware that from most accounts, the majority of the Prime team members have left Retro, right? Retro's got very little leg up on any other studio Nintendo may have lying around. Aside from graphical prowess, which does not a Metroid game make. And honestly, I think you're being way too harsh on Fed Force. So what if it has a chibi artstyle? So did Wind Waker, yet that's commonly heralded as one of, if not THE best Zelda game of all time.

One true enough for a successful business plan:

Quite the audacious thought, yeah, that people who owned Gamecubes and GBAs as kids are now adult consumers that Nintendo wants to sell products to.

I don't want to delve too far into this, but that bugged me about Dark Moon, because it made the mansion not a singular set place, but a series of cordoned off levels, ala Mario 64 through Galaxy 2. I really loved just exploring the big map in GCN Luigi's Mansion. It's the same reason why I prefer Skyrim's single area to all other types of open world games; holistic explorative design.

Second, you are aware that from most accounts, the majority of the Prime team members have left Retro, right? Retro's got very little leg up on any other studio Nintendo may have lying around. Aside from graphical prowess, which does not a Metroid game make.

It's important. Without the art direction much of Prime 1-3 would have been dull courtyards and hallways. Also, people seem to have really liked the DK Country games. I'd take Retro over whatever amalgamation of Nintendo Kyoto makes Rainbow Curse or Wolly World.

And honestly, I think you're being way too harsh on Fed Force. So what if it has a chibi artstyle? So did Wind Waker, yet that's commonly heralded as one of, if not THE best Zelda game of all time.

Nope, nope, nope. The Wind Waker was not chibi, it was stylized. The same goes for Final Fantasy 7 when compared to Final Fantasy World. I wouldn't call FF 'chibi' exactly, but it certainly has big heads and seemingly little effort put into the 3d models. The Wind Waker also looked great on the gamecube, while Federation Force looks janky on the 3DS (a somewhat comparable system.) It's a mix between the sloppily modeled character models (weird polygons everywhere, ugly art design) and the Hunters-like focus on shooting over any metroidvanian elements that estrange that game from my gaming desires.

The phrase 'literally no bearing' falls utterly short here.

Market research is one thing, stereotypes based on nothing but intuition extrapolated from personal experience or societal stigmas (ie: internet = kidz, old people =/= tech) is entirely another.

Yeah, the fun thing about facts though is that they're still true regardless of personal experience. Even if @rallydefault is an old man yelling at a cloud, the stereotype of Nintendo's current core audience being early 20s and having entered the ecosystem in Gen 5/6 is something that is supported by Nintendo's own market research.

Metroid is not a system-seller; I don't know why people think Nintendo "needs" a Metroid game on a console. Metroid Prime was decent and I'd rate Super Metroid, though I've not spent serious time with it, but otherwise not much to see here, move on. I can't see why it would be a launch title for any future machine. The original is just horrible - how did it get a sequel in the first place?