Topic: Was this E3 the final nail in the coffin for the Wii U?

There's a thread somewhere about this, but I haven't read it in a while, so I don't know what the current consensus is. Last time I read it, though, seemed most people agreed that Nintendo couldn't really get away with a price drop. Or at least they wouldn't risk one.

I disagree. The Wii U has only tapped a fraction of Nintendo's fanbase. And I'm among those who have not bought it.

Why? Because Nintendo really tripped up. The game lineup in the first 2 years was a fraction of what the Wii and GC's was. The system has focused almost exclusively on action and party games, and the system doesn't even have sports games (I still have a good number of 3rd party games on my Wii and GC). The big killer app (Smash Bros) also offered it's core gameplay experience on 3DS. That may help Nintendo's bottom line, but it's not pushing Wii U's as much. The Wii U caters to a certain group of people, but it turns away everyone else.

@Sean, Yeah but the other half of the fanbase from the wii were just casuals playing wii sports and such, not actually playing legit games. And most of them went to phones and tablets to play pick up and play games instead of getting the Wii U.

Nintendo couldn't get away with a price drop to boost hardware sales, which in turn would move more full priced software? Huh?

As it stands, the other consoles provide a better value in the eyes of consumers, which is reflected in their sales. If Nintendo would knock $50 or more off its base price, people would be enticed to pick one up as their second console.

It was definitely a sign that they realized the battle has been lost. Pretty sad IMHO - they could have at least continued to fight as the underdog - it would have been appreciated by us fans I guess.

On the other hand, they might have also realized that there is no point in fighting anymore, if mario kart 8 and smash brothers couldnt turn things round then nothing will. Investing in proper metroid and animal crossing titles would cost money and ideas - chances are these things will be needed for the NX.

I just hope they learn from past mistakes and create something meaningful with the NX - hopefully they wont cheap us out again with subpar hardware which will keep many third parties away.

The only thing that I am hoping for is that the NX will be backwards compatible - with full controller support - or better make the NX controller compatible with previous wii generations.

Other than that, yes, that was the final nail

You just can't ignore the 3DS like that just because the forum hasn't the good name. I think it's the main reason why the WiiU isn't selling is because the 3DS already offer all the Nintendo games people want with the same content as home consoles games and for cheaper than a WiiU. And the 3DS hasn't that much third party support really. They're not the reason why the 3DS is selling that much.

You can't say Sony is pleasing everyone when the Vita is such a failure and only western AAA games sell well on PS4. The Playstation fanabase changed and is less varied than it was during the ps1/ps2 days despite what fanboys pretend. And if you buy a system for niche stuff, you're just a vocal minority.

Oh I have no doubt that they will release a new AppleTV with game functionality. I thought people meant a full blown console, which I doubt will happen.

I don't think Cook is doing a poor job in the short term. He's raking in cash and keeping investors happy. But in the long term I believe Apple will struggle due to his performance. See, Jobs worked really hard to make Apple seem like a differentiated product. He very much stuck to his own guns, and focused on products he thought would make Apple products appealing and unique (very similar to Iwata for Nintendo).

And for Apple, that's always been their biggest point of success. Cook seems satisfied conforming to investor pressure to make a product closer to the competition, and after a certain degree of that, Apple will struggle, because they will become EXACTLY what they haters say they are. Just a more expensive, less functional version of the competition.

I'm so tired of refuting this argument. It's a hyperbole, and only partly true.

The crowd that played Wii Sports and Just Dance are still doing that... on Wii or 360. There is no smartphone equivalent for casual local multiplayer. No one sits around playing Candy Crush in a group.

The crowd that played Cooking Mama and Wii Fit? Yeah, they are gone, but that's a greater detriment to the handheld market than the home console market. Most of the Wii's biggest casual games were party games.

Also, people tend to forget how big the Wii was with children. I don't have any solid demographic data, but I doubt casuals made up half the Wii fanbase once you factor in gamers and kids into the mix.

Lawl, nope.

And the 3DS hasn't that much third party support really. They're not the reason why the 3DS is selling that much.

Do keep ignoring the stats posted. It'll make my job easier.

Haru17 wrote:

That's the thing, though, nowadays there's a rich diversity in games and their audiences. We've come a long way from Zuppa Mario 1 and all those simple, gameplay-only games. Now there's those games, indie games, big AAA adventures, and even narrative-only games like Quantic Dream's stuff, Until Dawn, etc. The PS4 is doing so well because it is addressing all of those niches. We're not talking about making individual games try to please everyone (though all expensive mass media has to to some extent), but having a whole console do so (which is just smart marketing-wise.)

You can't say Sony is pleasing everyone when the Vita is such a failure and only western AAA games sell well on PS4. The Playstation fanabase changed and is less varied than it was during the ps1/ps2 days despite what fanboys pretend. And if you buy a system for niche stuff, you're just a vocal minority.

I was talking about the PS4, not that you care. You're just railing against Sony because #fanboyreasons

Glad to see that some people actually "get it". It's important to note that I think "casual", while being a rather unspecific label, is still somewhat apt, and it includes both of those crowds. The first saw no reason whatsoever to invest into a WiiU, since that system does not add any value for them (assuming they even know about the device as such), and the second moved on to greener pastures in terms of smartphones, tablets and so on, which do the same, are owned anyways and in many are more flexbile and convenient (some maybe even still be playing on the Wii as well^^).
The second group will never come back, and the first one is also unlikely to do so. I believe Nintendo realizes this now, and they will no longer design the device to "appeal" more or less exclusively to the first group, for they learned that lesson with the WiiU, but they will go after the second, with the help of DeNa outside of their core console business. They will instead try to recapture most of what they can of their core fanbase and try to expand into the ever growing games market at large by more traditional means (which worked rather well for almost everyone else).
That is not an easy proposition though, since it kinda puts them between two stools, and they are - or will be - 3 years late to the party after all.
Anyways, at least that is what I hope they'll do, becase if they go after that "Wii Moment" once more with all force, they will end up in deep trouble, this time for real. If they manage to cominbe their handheld and console business, reestablish old ties to consumers, create some new ones (plenty of chances there still), and add to a sizeable stake in the exploding mobil market, they should be more than fine though!

Well, whether or not it was the nail in the coffin remains to be seen, as the future regarding NX is incredibly uncertain.

What I do know, is that regardless of whether or not this E3 was the bullet to the head or not is irrelevant. The Wii U would fall at some point, just like the PS2 did. Even the greatest aren't immortal.

Yes it's a shame it will likely come sooner than later, but at least we have a system that pulled a Gamecube. The lack of third parties means you have less junk to wade through before hitting gold. I'd rather be positive about it.

Great argument. Really.

What kind of "job" it is? Also the sales of games make me right, sorry.

I don't get why do you pretend the 3DS or the Vita don't exist. It gives us information about the future of those companies as much as home consoles. And this is what we're talking about.
Also once again I have nothing against Sony. I like them. I own a ps1, a ps2, ps3, a psp and a Vita. If there's a fanboy here giving bad rep it isn't me.

Yeah I gotta agree with bitleman there. The belittling of portable gaming is incomprehensible to me, I just dealt with it in another thread ("you can only play AAA games on console or PC" - wtf). The 3DS can and for me has stood on its own as my only "next gen" system, my latest systems are still the Wii, PS3, 3DS and PC. From the Donkey Kong and Mario games to Mario Kart and Smash Bros, not even going to keep naming games but you have every option covered on 3DS and they're not watered down, you're a fool to think so - this ain't the Game Boy.

What fight? Please tell me you're not talking about a non-existent fight between Nintendo and Sony and Microsoft.

@martinskrtel37

There is no fight. Behind closed doors, they like to hold hands and share 90% of their consumer base.

I disagree that the first group is unlikely to come back. The reason they didn't switch to Wii U is two-fold
1. Terrible marketing, such that many people didn't even know what Wii U is.
2. The Wii U fundamentally fails to improve upon the things that made the Wii so appealing to that group in the first place. The first group like the Wii because the controls were fun and intuitive. Therefore, you could have anyone just pick up and play. The Gamepad steers in the exact opposite direction, focusing on a far more complex experience. Players now need to learn a button mapping and may even have to grasp the concept of assymetric multiplayer. Using the Gamepad isn't innately fun either.

For Nintendo to get the first group back, it's as simple as going back and building on what made the Wii successful. Personally, I believe they SHOULD try to do this to an extent, whilst also make their system powerful such that third parties make games for it, and providing their own fun games for their core audience.

Combining their handheld and console businesses is a fundamentally bad idea. It will cut a branch where they are still making money, put more eggs in one basket, and force a bottle neck on system power. I'm all for unifying the OS's and making ports EASIER, but completely combining the businesses would be a mistake.

Its about market-share - the more you have the more successful you are and the more likely people are to buy your product (see Sony). What I basically meant is they have realized they are not gonna achieve much more than this. But you are right, they probably never meant to content with sony or ms - rather viewed the Wii U as a secondary console that everyone who has a sony or ms machine will buy - and that didnt work out nicely

That's kind of my point, most of the people they failed to sell the Wii U to were Wii owners who they failed to convert into real fans and many people who might consider themselves fans of Nintendo, but didn't come along for the ride are clearly not dedicated enough to stick with them. People are looking at this as "core gamer" versus "casual" still, but I think the lesson that needs to be learned is that their dedicated base has shrunk; the way to build it isn't to try to beg people who switched to other platforms to come back, but get up-and-coming gamers - children, into the fold. This is why smart devices are such a huge threat, because the parents aren't interested in consoles. This is why I think the NX will be a tablet device. I could be wrong, but it seems like a lower-risk proposition than trying to sell a more powerful console at a higher price point than the Wii U to an audience that has moved on from Nintendo.

So with this rumoured price point and the rumoured it can run/emulate android has Niny made the new Ouya then?

Could be, though I'm thinking more a tablet first; TV streaming and USB/sensor bar connectivity (if backwards compatible) would be via a separate add-on. I'm having a hard time picturing the form factor though. Maybe like a larger version of the lower half of the New 3DS? I can't see them not having physical buttons and dpad/sticks/nubs, unless they have some kind of sexy haptic screen, but that would seem to go against the idea of keeping manufacturing costs low. I'd think controls would be removable like the circle pad on the original 3DS.

@HollywoodHogan Yeah, I bet it was! They really failed to get their message across. People like my partner who aren't really into games, but had a Wii didn't really get the Wii U, but give them a Gamepad and switch on Game and Wario and the light goes on. Trying to market to "core" gamers seems like a mistake in hindsight. They really should have pushed the "family-friendly" thing and targeted families with pre-teens more. Having last-year's mature releases sitting side-by-side with Nintendo Land and New Super Mario Bros didn't make a lot of sense to me; you just don't see a lot of overlap there.

nintendo has failed to realize who their core audience is IMHO, or even worse, they think they know whats best for their fans when its clearly not. Right now, they must have realized that there arent so many nintendo fans out there - and that not every wii owner turned a nintendo fanboy. Hopefully they will realize their mistakes and more than make up for it with the NX - or completely spoil the experience with innovations that nobody needs or wants and completely disregard important things... lets hope for the best