Topic: Was this E3 the final nail in the coffin for the Wii U?

And then there's the rest of us that are well aware it's all a matter of taste and just like what we like. I may come off as a total fanboy, but I just enjoy games in general. Still, I feel as though PS4 owners are getting played. I'm getting an X One soon and still really enjoy my Wii U, but even ignoring the One, my U and PC cover almost every reason Sony has given me to get a PS4. It's sad that that's the one winning because I feel it could almost entirely be replaced by any old gaming PC. A U can't. A One is arguable, but I feel it offers enough. Then you factor in the One and console-exclusive multiplats no longer factor in and I'm starting to wonder if there's a point to getting a PS4 by the end of the generation.

But that's just my personal thoughts. I don't even know how much of that relates to the topic at hand. I'm just really disappointed that Sony's winning with the shenanigans they've pulled.

@UGXWolf You think PS4 owners are getting played, but not XBOne owners? I understand different tastes, but I don't understand how we're getting played. If you love PS exclusives, and would rather play on a console than PC, how are we getting played?

Because from what I've seen/heard, the PS4 exclusives have been lackluster at best aside from Bloodborne, and E3 didn't do anything to reassure me, meanwhile the X One appears to have exclusives that don't feel like just bringing the franchise to the new system. And Sony has IPs I actually like. They aren't talking about those. Some of those are dead, anyways (like Jak) and personally it seems like they've been actively removing framchises I care about without replacing them. (Personal, mind you.)

Though maybe it's because Sony's left a very sour taste in my mouth since the start of the console generation. They've made most of their hype off of not being Microsoft, yet I feel like in terms of content, Sony has cone to E3 empty handed two years in a row, while Microsoft has caught my attention three years in a row. Not to mention Microsoft has actively FIXED all problems the One had at launch while Sony has openly stated "because we don't need to" when askked why they don't do certain things.

inFamous was great, and a niche game or two (like Samurai Warriors 4) that were really good too. I'm surprised you didn't find something at E3 you liked. They had The Last Guardian, Uncharted 4, Horizon, Shenmue 3, Dreams, and probably something I'm forgetting. None of those look good to you? And to be fair, Xbox was a lot worse off early, so there need to fix stuff was worse. And I forgot about Street Fighter V, which is on PC, but matters for those who don't want a fighting on PC/prefer console.

Ha, now there's the headline of a clickbait article for ya.
It's complete nonsense to say those are the games that "gamers want to play". What would be more correct to say is that action and shooter games have the most universal appeal and therefore tend to sell the most. Those are the kinds of games that casual gamers tend to pick up by the ton. It's not necessarily that true about hardcore gamers though. People who discuss these things online and follow the industry closely don't tend to play those types of games any more than platformers, strategies, RPGs. etc etc.
Look at what the highest funded kickstarters are for a guide. That's a much better guide as to what the hardcore gamers tend to like. Not many shooters!

I will admit that console-only players don't have the same issues, but at the same time, I'm not one of those. As for the games you listed, The Last Guardian is the kind I look at rather than play. Uncharted has my attention, for now, but has a history of losing said attention. I'm gonna need to see a lot more of Horizon to have any strong opinions, Shenmue 3 is coming to PC, IIRC, and Dreams will result in very interesting YouTube videos, but I'm not the creative type. Sony had a lot of "admire from a distance" things for me, this year, but there's a reason I said TWO years, and not three. I think this year's E3 was good, just not for me. Certainly better than last year's E3 where they had four actual exclusives, IIRC. And the year before that where everything had mostly been announced at the console reveal four months prior and the new stuff wasn't exclusive, and most of the gameplay turned out to be weak, when we finally saw it (Knack especially.)

But maybe I AM being harsh. I just feel like Sony's gotten lucky in that Microsoft made all the mistakes while they've sunk into the crowd and laughed with everyone else while fixing said issues that they, themselves were also guilty of.

Measuring PS, XB, or PC by exclusives alone is folly, the vast majority of their AAA games are third parties. A fighting game and two tonally obnoxious games (Dead Rising 3 and Sunset Overdrive)? I can live without them. The trend towards multiplatform games in the industry has made my most anticipated X1 game, Tomba! Raider, just a timed exclusive, also known as a multiplatform release to people with patience.

However, the 'PS4 has no exclusives' argument is a myth, just like 'Wii U haz no gamez,' and all before it. Anyone can see tons of games on this list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_published_b... Not every game is for every person, which is what I feel towards most games anyway, though I've enjoyed games like Infamous on PS4. None of my favorite games, save Monster Hunter, are coming out in 2015 on any console, phone, or PC.

Not to mention that almost every indie game and JRPG is exclusive to PS4 & PC this generation.

So for the most hype games, I'm left with waiting. Waiting for games like Zelda U, Elder Scrolls VI, Naughty Dog's New IP / The Last of Us 2, WiLD, and Horizon.

I utterly don't get how someone who follows Nintendo can be anything but the most patient, understanding soul this generation, as they, like every publisher / dev in HDland, make gamers wait and wait and wait for big AAA games like Zelda and Metroid.

The reason multiplats don't make it an argument is simple. PC is the best option for multiplats. It's the cheapest, the most versatile, and the most powerful option, based on how you choose to go about it. If a game is coming to PC, it simply makes no argument for a console as I can get the better version and have it be as powerful as I'm willing to make it and as cheap as I can stand to let it get. Dark Souls is the only arguable one, as From Software has a history of PC ports being relatively bad.

Well, some seasons are certainly better than others, but I really don't feel like I've been short of things to play. The 70 or so retail games I have between Wii U and 3DS, plus I dunno 50ish VC and indies, should keep me occupied until this fall, when another dozen Nintendo games that I plan to buy are coming out.

Not sure why I would wait and wait and wait for big AAA games when I could be spending that time having fun instead.

I know there are games to play on all platforms. Of course, as I've been playing them. It's just that Shadow of Mordor, Mario Kart 8, Dragon Age, Pikmin 3, and the like were never going to be my favorite games, which was my point there.

Anyway, Wolf, let's not do PCMR, yeah? (Unless you're making a personal statement, there, I can't rightly tell presently.) PS4, X1, and PC all have their respective strengths as to multiplatform games. The one I deem most important is the PS4's ability to play multiplatform games tailored to it for performance as well as the future exclusives I'm most interested in (coming from someone who loathes Souls games), without requiring me to purchase another half-a-grand system.

I think the biggest issues with PC gaming right now stem from most big publishers not considering it as a priority.

WB has released two big games this year, Mortal Kombat X and Batman: Arkham Knight. Both games had PC ports outsourced to, frankly, incompetent studios who were probably just the lowest bidder. Both games were complete messes upon release, the latter to the point where it has actually been removed from Steam until it's fixed. And if Steam refunds were a thing when MKX was released, that probably would have been pulled too.

Also, arguably, a lack of big exclusives. That's a subjective thing though because there are a lot of PC exclusive games, just usually in genres that don't work very well on consoles. A good example is Civilization V.

On that note, **** yeah for Steam refunds. Publishers aren't going to get away with releasing broken, unfinished games anymore just because a million people pre-ordered it. Over 7,000 negative reviews, and I bet every single one of them requested a refund. That's $420,000 just from those who reviewed, enough that WB simply can't ignore.

You are putting words in my mouth. What I said isn't pejorative at all and this is exactly how the industry sees this market. And before you call me a mindless fanboy or something like that, I own a Xbox One, a Vita, a PSP and a PS3.

Now this is pejorative. I didn't imply anything about personal aspect of gamers by the games they play. You did. Please do not get defensive like that. I didn't insult you. And if you felt insulted I'm sorry.
The sales of games are clear. If you bought a Sony or a Microsoft system for games not targetting the western AAA audience you're a vocal minority and if you bought a Nintendo system for 3rd party games you're a vocal minority no matter how many posts you will write on forums.
There is no point for Nintendo to run after an audience who doesn't want a Nintendo. Outside of entering in a money war for western AAA games they can't win anyway because the two other have a much bigger wallet. I mean even if they got a GTA exclusive deal it wouldn't help them selling system. Because GTA doesn't make sense in the Nintendo universe. A game like Monster Hunter does because it's colorful and light hearted.
Developers and publishers see systems as market and audience. They aren't fanboys who hate or love a system and the relationships with third parties aren't a dating sim.

Well now you're putting words in my mouth. I was citing a faulty perception, hence why I called it a stereotype. I obviously do not share that view, hence why I called it a not-very-nice stereotype. What I was doing was ridiculing you for your laughable oversimplification of most of gaming, which I get the feeling I will continue to do...

The sales of games are clear. If you bought a Sony or a Microsoft system for games not targetting the western AAA audience you're a vocal minority...

Nooo, there are plenty of Japanese and indie games, not to associate the two, that find success on PS4. Now, nothing is going to sell as well as CoD, or Mario, for that matter, but that doesn't make fans of other games marginalized necessarily. In fact fans of those kinds of games are very well served on the platform (as well as they can be what with Japan's bizarre hardware preferences.)

There is no point for Nintendo to run after an audience who doesn't want a Nintendo. Outside of entering in a money war for western AAA games they can't win anyway because the two other have a much bigger wallet.

Well, they kinda need to unless they can grow their first party studios to compete with an entire industry of third party devs (not likely.)

I mean even if they got a GTA exclusive deal it wouldn't help them selling system. Because GTA doesn't make sense in the Nintendo universe. A game like Monster Hunter does because it's colorful and light hearted. Developers and publishers see systems as market and audience.

Whaaat? Please stop with this relentlessly ridiculous notion that all games on a particular system are the same, or even similar. Even seemingly similar games, like Shadow of Mordor, Witcher 3, and Batman Arkham Knight, when played, reveal distinct tones and narrative voices. Shadow of Mordor is forlorn and set in a world perverted (not like that), while the Witcher 3 is world-weary and concerned with showing a society in motion, for good and mostly ill, where Batman is a hyper-gritty game that also focuses on eccentric characters, moral idealism, and heroism. Then you have a huge diversity of indie games like Transistor, the Unfinished Swan, Towerfall, etc with a similar variety of outlooks. The Wii U, too, has diverse games in terms of tone, from Mario (which is always a party) to Bayonetta (which is like the same part, but with a lot more drugs.) And then Splatoon and TWWHD all offer very distinct worlds and feels.

And if developers see a certain system as being only one thing, then that's a problem. Often for that system's third party support.

Please do not ridicule me. It wouldn't be nice.

Give me examples. Keep in mind we're living in an industry where ZombiU and Bayonetta 2 were failures sales wise.

The 3DS says hi.

I didn't say those games were the same. I said they targeted a similar audience. Please do not put words in my mouth.

That's not a problem. It's exactly how it works. If you try to please everyone you end like Capcom or Sega.

@bitleman I tend to agree. Nintendo needs to convince people to buy its system for its games, not say, hey kid our machine is slightly cheaper than a PS4 and has some of the games you can play there. Nintendo making a generica PC box with 20-year old controller a la MS/Sony + their IP wouldn't have made any difference to their success in my mind. The Wii U might not have been a big success, but it has shown them the size of their loyal fanbase in the home console space. This is why some kind of convergent device that attracts Wii U and 3DS fans would seem to make logical sense.

1, We're in the Wii U forum and talking about consoles and desktop PCs.
2, The 3DS has third party support /point

Haru17 wrote:

And if developers see a certain system as being only one thing, then that's a problem. Often for that system's third party support.

That's not a problem. It's exactly how it works. If you try to please everyone you end like Capcom or Sega.

That's the thing, though, nowadays there's a rich diversity in games and their audiences. We've come a long way from Zuppa Mario 1 and all those simple, gameplay-only games. Now there's those games, indie games, big AAA adventures, and even narrative-only games like Quantic Dream's stuff, Until Dawn, etc. The PS4 is doing so well because it is addressing all of those niches. We're not talking about making individual games try to please everyone (though all expensive mass media has to to some extent), but having a whole console do so (which is just smart marketing-wise.)

I dunno, Capcom and Square Enix likes leaving a lot of their games in Japan and only now are we getting Yokai Watch. I think the only relevant 3rd party game on 3DS so far this year has been Monster Hunter 4. If there's been another one, I can't think of it. Bravely Default is the most relevant 3rd party game of last year and it was published by Nintendo in America.

3DS is well-supported by Japanese 3rd parties, but a lot of them don't have confidence that their games will sell well in the west.. When you look at the list of the most successful publishers for 2014 in Japan, almost all of them found their major success on the 3DS.

1. Nintendo (7.8 million software sold, mostly on 3DS)
2. Level 5 (6.2 million software sold, almost entirely on 3DS)
3. Bandai Namco (4.9 million software sold, balanced between platforms)
4. Capcom (3.4 million software sold, like 2/3s of that was MH4U alone)
5. Square Enix (3.0 million software sold, mostly on 3DS)
6. The Pokemon Company (2.8 million software sold... yeah, almost entirely on 3DS)*

So with the exception of Namco, whose strategy was to just release as many games as possible on everything, all of the top publishers favoured the 3DS. But Japanese 3rd parties are reluctant to export their games, and western publishers don't consider dedicated handhelds a legitimate form of entertainment, so yeah, Nintendo of America is often pretty alone.

*It's amusing to me that even when you split Pokemon from Nintendo, Nintendo is still the top publisher by a decent margin.

They need to make it ridiculously cheap and announce the price drop when they give us Zelda information and a release date.
Im thinking at least a £50 price drop.

Going from a home console that sold 100 million units to their follow-up which struggles to hit 10 million almost 3 years after release has to have been a rude awakening for Nintendo.