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Topic: The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess HD - OT

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skywake

My guess is that the Twilight Realm actually pre-dates Skyward Sword. Why do I think that? Well there is tech in Skyward Sword that's very, very similar to the tech in the Twilight Realm. Right down to the portals which are used by Zelda and Impa to move between the regions which are very similar to the one that Midna uses.

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But the Twili are not in Skyward Sword. Instead there's an abandoned mine in the desert with robots that are just left to the elements. My guess is that the Twilight Realm exists in Majora's Mask but remains hidden. The Majora's Mask was created somehow from the Fused Shadow and somehow the Happy Mask Salesman got hold of it. But the Twili were banished well before then, before Skyward Sword. The Twili were probably the race of people who unleashed Demise.

Edited on by skywake

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Octane

@mookysam: I think that's the problem, it's either everything or nothing. I'm not sure how the older character models will look if you add new models in the game as well, they'd probably look even worse in comparison. That's why I'm keeping my expectations really low. It all depends how long this game has been in development, but I'd rather see that it won't release this year or next year and that the game gets a proper remaster, strive for visuals that resemble the Zelda Wii U demo, because that looked like a remastered Twilight Princess.

Octane

mookysam

They are both "shadows" of Hyrule proper but I like to think that the Twilight realm was always there in its shadowy state, a place hidden in the space between day and night, rather than a dimension like Termina physically turning into the Twilight realm. I reckon Termina was always a doomed land though, even with Link saving it.

@skywake: Those Twili were naughty. Demise seemed to have been established as a personification of the darkness/root of all evil kind of guy. Maybe in creation a counterpart to the light of the goddess? I guess his power grew and the natural balance thrown out of whack as a result of the evil that people did, including the Twili/Majora worshippers?

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skywake

@mookysam: I just think the parallels between the Twili's tech and the tech of the Lanayru Robots are pretty striking. It may be just a coincidence for sure. But I think it's interesting that the story of Skyward Sword was that Demise raised an army attempting to take over the world and Hylia helped seal him. Compare that to Twilight Princess where the story is that an ancient tribe who were skilled in dark magic tried to take over the world before the light spirits banished them to the Twilight Realm.

Of course this is Zelda we're talking about so there are huge gaps. Purely because they didn't intend it to be one big story and they basically just made it up as they went along. We'll probably find out more soon enough given that the Wii U Zelda has some interesting elements.....

Edited on by skywake

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

TuVictus

I think back then, any connections between the games weren't really thought out. But going forward I definitely see Aonuma having an overarching story to connect each game in some way.

TuVictus

SCRAPPER392

@skywake
You mean the Twilight Realm is in the portal of the past of Skyward Sword?

I think we could also make a theory that Termina and Lorule is part of Wind Waker's time line in the past (before the timeline split), because there are shapes like MM on the doors on Outset Island and the only reason why (OoT) Link was able to go to Termina, was because of the time line split in the first place.
Navi supposedly left, but she was probably in the Twilight Realm, which was the future of the Skyward Sword's past. Somehow this should make sense. Who knows.
EDIT: The part about Navi is just whatever, because Link never finds her. As far as we know, she could be anywhere, including a different time line or maybe she is that sprite in the Forest Haven in Wind Waker that you put in the Pictobox.

Edited on by SCRAPPER392

Qwest

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skywake

SCAR wrote:

@skywake
You mean the Twilight Realm is in the portal of the past of Skyward Sword?

My theory was more along the lines of the Twili being the ancestors of the ancient tribe who created the abandoned Lanayru mining facility in Skyward Sword. The same tribe that rallied behind demise to try and take down Hylia. Which would mean that the portals in Skyward Sword were based on their technology which is similar to the technology the Twili used in Twilight Princess. The portals in Skyward Sword I'd think of as a transportation system left by them and forgotten after they were banished to the Twilight Realm. In Twilight Princess they used that same technology to find their way back to Hyrule.

We also know that Nayru has a connection to time, which is why the Lanayru mining facility tech is based around manipulating time. So is it that much of a stretch to think that they're also connected to the portals in Skyward Sword which can send you through space and time? Or the similar portals in Twilight Princess the Twili create which can send you to another dimension? It's just a theory but I think there's reason to believe that at the very least the Twili used Lanayru tech, possibly even being the creators of it. And that Lanayru tech? It looks very similar to the tech you see Link use and the enemy he's fighting in the trailer for Zelda U. Maybe we'll find out more soon enough.

Edited on by skywake

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

SCRAPPER392

@skywake
I understood what you meant. The technology with the orbs, floating platforms (in the Twilight Realm), and how the orbs change the desert surroundings (in Skyward Sword). The portal would be to the portal to the past in Skyward Sword, but the portal exists as the Twilight Realm in the Twilight Princess era, accordingly, because the Skyward Sword past portal doesn't even exist in the future anyway, besides the connection with the technology.

Edited on by SCRAPPER392

Qwest

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skywake

@SCAR:
I suspect that the portal exists in the Twilight Realm because the Twili built it. So they knew how to build such a portal. And one way they could know how to build that sort of device would be if that information had been passed down to them over the generations.

That said there's another possible way it could work with the story. Perhaps the Twili were more along the lines of a different race of Hylia. After the end of Skyward Sword the Hylia came down and lived on the surface. Maybe they split with one group of them getting into powerful magic. And in that era perhaps they found a way to use a lot of the Lanayru tech because it was all over the place in Skyward Sword. Maybe that's the story that will be told in Zelda U, the events between Skyward Sword and Minish Cap. "The era of Chaos" being the time when the Twili were banished.

Edited on by skywake

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

SCRAPPER392

Well, there still has to be a portal in both places, so the one in Hyrule had to have come from Hylians. That is why we could say that it was already there, or Hylians also knew how to do that, because otherwise Link wouldn't have that spinny-floaty top thing, armor that devours rupees, or an unlimited oxygen tank in the simming gear.

Qwest

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Haru17

SCAR wrote:

Well, there still has to be a portal in both places, so the one in Hyrule had to have come from Hylians.

No it doesn't. The mirror of twilight was like a projector: it opened a two-way portal to the twilight realm with just one mirror. There was no 'mirror' mirror in the twilight realm. The twili could have easily opened the portal from their side and chucked the mirror through, or something.

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Haru17

Tsurii wrote:

I doubt the interlopers built a portal that enables them to get out of their prison, if they didn't intend to use it (they didn't hang around the Twilight Realm because they got a kick out of it)
The people in Hyrule used the thing to imprison criminals, just how the Sages used the mirror to get rid of Ganondorf, it wasn't until 'dorf corrupted Zant that someone was able to open any portals from the inside. The thing was most likely built by whoever sealed these people away (the goddesses and/or the ancient hylians)

Okay, but the mirror of twilight itself seems to use similar dark magic to the ancient twilit magics (see: Yeta).

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skywake

Ok, so that's kinda blown a hole in the "they built a mirror to escape" theory. But I don't think it proves that the Twili weren't the same group of people who built the mirror. Because as @Haru17 pointed out the mirror does use the same dark magic the Twili use. The same magic that Midna uses to fast travel even. Maybe the decision to use the mirror was some form of poetic justice.

So here's the timeline as it sits in my head now:

  • There was a period before Skyward Sword when Lanayru tech was common
  • Portals and giant Robots were widely used (I think before Skyward Sword because it makes more sense that way)
  • During this period a tribe to the west got into dark magic. They were Hylians but they were also pirates and thieves
  • This rebel tribe used this Lanayru tech extensively and were possibly the creators of it.
  • They raised an army behind Demise but were stopped by a hero in Green
  • Defeated they were banished to the Twilight Realm with one of their own mirrors. Poetic justice.
  • Their lands were cursed and turned into desert, Demise was restrained (again, before Skyward Sword)
    (these first few points? I wouldn't be surprised if they were the events that Zelda for Wii U covers)
  • All of the events of Skyward Sword happen. None of it really impacts the story of Twilight Princess
  • Fast forward to Ocarina of Time. There's a tribe who lives on that land that used to be the home of the rebel tribe
  • One of these tribesmen, Ganondorf, takes a lot of interest in the ancient writings. He wants that power
  • A Hero in Green warns the king who stops Ganondorf before he can take over
  • Ganondorf is unmasked and is to be executed by the gods, but he overpowers them
  • In a panic the gods banish him to the Twilight Realm. They didn't want to do this, it has an impact
  • Cracks in the Twilight Realm prison start to appear across space and time (isolated to that timeline)
  • The Majora's Mask falls out in the past
  • There is a full breach during the events of Twilight Princess
  • A Hero in Green etc,etc

Edited on by skywake

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

SCRAPPER392

@Haru17:
Ya. I forgot that there was only one mirror, but perhaps the mirror was reflecting the portal of the past, which became the Twilight Realm. For all we know, the Twilight Realm also randomly changed the sound stones with eyes on them(I forget what they are called) into those shrines where you houl as a wolf in TP, and they all originated from the Skyward Sword one next the knight school.

The sound stone in Wind Waker might be one of those diamond switches that was altered with rupee power for portability, like the armor in TP. That's why they open gates, because the land line switches are hardwired to doors, random fire circles, etc. The only thing left to do is send the signal to another diamond for audio. That's how the Ocarina of Time also works as a remote for various things.

Edited on by SCRAPPER392

Qwest

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CaviarMeths

^ thought that link was going to be that Zelda reaction thing, which is better left ungoogled.

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ClockworkMario

@SpookyMeths:
Of course that link wasn't about Zelda. Link's the chap in green!

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UGXwolf

@Haru17: The moon coming down in Majora's Mask isn't the real moon. It's a magic moon summoned by Majora. It doesn't kill by impact. It's way too slow for that. It creates a massive explosion. Besides, I could be wrong, but I seem to recall a regular moon being in the sky alongside the magic one.

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jump

I don't remember there being a 2nd moon and it was always referred to as the moon rather than a moon or one of the moons during the game.

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TuVictus

There was no regular moon in MM. Just the moon.

TuVictus

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