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Topic: The Wii U vs. current interests of the console market

Posts 101 to 120 of 138

CaviarMeths

I always found it weird that people call the big budget blockbusters "AAA" games, but there's really no such thing as an AA game, A game, B game... well, alright, there's a such thing as a B game.

But then I guess everyone would just argue over where each game belongs on the grade scale.

So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.

Bolt_Strike

skywake wrote:

Bolt_Strike wrote:

How about big budget and small budget? Size and budget are pretty much the only categories that accurately distinguish the two categories.

But then you get games like No Mans Sky and Star Citizen which are somewhere in the middle.

Medium budget can be a thing too.

Bolt_Strike

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Haru17

skywake wrote:

Bolt_Strike wrote:

How about big budget and small budget? Size and budget are pretty much the only categories that accurately distinguish the two categories.

But then you get games like No Mans Sky and Star Citizen which are somewhere in the middle.

Mid-budget.

Untitled

Edited on by Haru17

Don't hate me because I'm bnahabulous.

CaviarMeths

Cost brackets work too.

On Xenoblade Chronicles X and Legend of Zelda: "That's a $60 game."
On Mario Maker and Kirby and the Rainbow Curse: "That's a $40 game."
On Child of Light and Shantae and the Pirate's Curse: "That's a $20 game."

But even then, you have stuff like Final Fantasy Type-0 HD, a remaster of a 5 year old PSP game selling for full retail AAA price. And they'll get away with it too, because it comes with a demo for Final Fantasy XV.

Edited on by CaviarMeths

So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.

SCRAPPER392

The Wii U also has VC to pull from. Not that many games are on there, compared to Wii VC, but they will get there eventually. The Wii U VC games have native 1080p along with remastered audio and the games even run smoother from what I can tell.

Xbox and PS don't have software that reaches back as far as Nintendo's does, and it gives multiple advantages; one being VC, another being possible reboots, and also ideas come back and are familar from Nintendo as a company.

Xbox and PS don't have stuff Nintendo has, and vice versa. Nothing more really needs to be said.

Qwest

3DS Friend Code: 4253-3737-8064 | Nintendo Network ID: Children

CaviarMeths

SCAR392 wrote:

The Wii U also has VC to pull from. Not that many games are on there, compared to Wii VC, but they will get there eventually. The Wii U VC games have native 1080p along with remastered audio and the games even run smoother from what I can tell.

Xbox and PS don't have software that reaches back as far as Nintendo's does, and it gives multiple advantages; one being VC, another being possible reboots, and also ideas come back and are familar from Nintendo as a company.

Xbox and PS don't have stuff Nintendo has, and vice versa. Nothing more really needs to be said.

Thread is about the interests of the market though, and nobody buys a next gen system to play 20 year old games. VC is great for the installed base, but it's not a system seller.

So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.

SCRAPPER392

CaviarMeths wrote:

SCAR392 wrote:

The Wii U also has VC to pull from. Not that many games are on there, compared to Wii VC, but they will get there eventually. The Wii U VC games have native 1080p along with remastered audio and the games even run smoother from what I can tell.

Xbox and PS don't have software that reaches back as far as Nintendo's does, and it gives multiple advantages; one being VC, another being possible reboots, and also ideas come back and are familar from Nintendo as a company.

Xbox and PS don't have stuff Nintendo has, and vice versa. Nothing more really needs to be said.

Thread is about the interests of the market though, and nobody buys a next gen system to play 20 year old games. VC is great for the installed base, but it's not a system seller.

I understand, but the point is that it's different, and it does have appeal for 8th generation gamers, because of that. The market is 8th generation, and Wii U is 8th generation. All that comes after that that is preference, which is obviously subjective.
The closest games I can think of that SHOULD immediately appeal to PS and Xbox gamers, are Smash Bros, Bayonetta 2, possibly some of the 7th gen ports that Xbox One/PS4 didn't get, Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, Devil's Third, Xenoblade Chronicles X, Zelda U, that Namco "Treasure" game, and maybe Pokken if that ever comes to Wii U, which it probably will. I know it's Pokemon, but it still looks like at least a semi interesting fighter game. Xbox and PS gamers would buy those games if they were on PS or Xbox, and there's no denying it, but they already decided to buy everything PS or Xbox, so they are automatically going to miss out on games that they would buy if it was on their first system. You're going to miss out on games if you don't have all the platforms. That's just how it is.

I included reboots/remasters kind of like VC, BTW. Grim Fandango, MC Collection, and even Tomb Raider are still going to appeal to people who knew those creaky ol' games. We wouldn't have characters like Pit, Little Mac, etc. in Smash Bros. if they decided against reaching as far back into their history as they can. That's why I criticise Sony for letting Crash and Spyro get away. Even Final Fantasy probably could have been Sony's, but alas. Even Microsoft would probably get a lot of attention if they decided to reboot something like King's Quest. Sometimes reboots or remasters can mix stuff up, and we've seen it time and time again, so I beg to differ about earlier released games not mattering that much.

Edited on by SCRAPPER392

Qwest

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Bolt_Strike

Actually medium budget is likely to be more of a thing in the future, a lot of AAA developers are unhappy with that market and want more control over their games. And that could potentially provide a solution to Nintendo's market problems now that I think about it, if they can draw in enough of those developers and market themselves as a mid tier console, then I think they'll fit comfortably in that niche.

Edited on by Bolt_Strike

Bolt_Strike

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Haru17

CaviarMeths wrote:

Cost brackets work too.

On Xenoblade Chronicles X and Legend of Zelda: "That's a $60 game."
On Mario Maker and Kirby and the Rainbow Curse: "That's a $40 game."
On Child of Light and Shantae and the Pirate's Curse: "That's a $20 game."

But even then, you have stuff like Final Fantasy Type-0 HD, a remaster of a 5 year old PSP game selling for full retail AAA price. And they'll get away with it too, because it comes with a demo for Final Fantasy XV.

I don't think that's too objectionably. Type 0 is apparently decently good. If you want a terrible example of Japanese console AAA fandom manipulation then aim your ire at Ground Zeroes; which is literally a demo sold for $30-40, sans an entire JRPG.

Edited on by Haru17

Don't hate me because I'm bnahabulous.

CaviarMeths

Haru17 wrote:

CaviarMeths wrote:

Cost brackets work too.

On Xenoblade Chronicles X and Legend of Zelda: "That's a $60 game."
On Mario Maker and Kirby and the Rainbow Curse: "That's a $40 game."
On Child of Light and Shantae and the Pirate's Curse: "That's a $20 game."

But even then, you have stuff like Final Fantasy Type-0 HD, a remaster of a 5 year old PSP game selling for full retail AAA price. And they'll get away with it too, because it comes with a demo for Final Fantasy XV.

I don't think that's too objectionably. Type 0 is apparently decently good. If you want a terrible example of Japanese console AAA fandom manipulation then aim your ire at Ground Zeroes; which is literally a demo sold for $30-40, sans an entire JRPG.

The comparison video I watched looked like it did a pretty good job. A lot of textures have been completely redone too. It's a good remaster. It's just not a $60 remaster. Even completely overhauled, it looks like a PS3 game. Biggest problem I can see with it is that while all of the textures have been made high res, the output resolution itself still looks very low, eg, the camera is very zoomed in on your character and not a whole lot really fits into the frame. It's like playing a PC game with graphics settings on HD textures, but output resolution of 800x600. It would have worked better on Vita for $40-50. The only reason why it's on PS4 is so that they can use it to hype FFXV.

And yeah, Ground Zeroes is moderately outrageous.

So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.

SCRAPPER392

I didn't even really want to buy MGS: Ground Zeroes for $15. It's ALMOST a demo, and should be $10, at most. There weren't that many games on Xbox One or PS4, when it came out, too, so people were willing to buy much of anything, but that's how console launches generally go. I did the same thing on Wii U. I just bought anything I could, because it's a new console.

I think game releases are starting to slow down, now. Starfox is another game Xbox and PS gamers probably have at least some interest in, just as anyone who gamed on N64 probably has SOME interest for games like Banjo Kazooie and Killer Instinct, even though they aren't on Nintendo anymore. The exclusives are where most of the new stuff is happening, because otherwise the games are multiplatform and/or cross-generation. I would buy a new Banjo over CoD, anyday, just as I would buy Killzone over CoD, even though I don't have a PS4.

Edited on by SCRAPPER392

Qwest

3DS Friend Code: 4253-3737-8064 | Nintendo Network ID: Children

Haru17

CaviarMeths wrote:

Haru17 wrote:

CaviarMeths wrote:

Cost brackets work too.

On Xenoblade Chronicles X and Legend of Zelda: "That's a $60 game."
On Mario Maker and Kirby and the Rainbow Curse: "That's a $40 game."
On Child of Light and Shantae and the Pirate's Curse: "That's a $20 game."

But even then, you have stuff like Final Fantasy Type-0 HD, a remaster of a 5 year old PSP game selling for full retail AAA price. And they'll get away with it too, because it comes with a demo for Final Fantasy XV.

I don't think that's too objectionably. Type 0 is apparently decently good. If you want a terrible example of Japanese console AAA fandom manipulation then aim your ire at Ground Zeroes; which is literally a demo sold for $30-40, sans an entire JRPG.

The comparison video I watched looked like it did a pretty good job. A lot of textures have been completely redone too. It's a good remaster. It's just not a $60 remaster. Even completely overhauled, it looks like a PS3 game. Biggest problem I can see with it is that while all of the textures have been made high res, the output resolution itself still looks very low, eg, the camera is very zoomed in on your character and not a whole lot really fits into the frame. It's like playing a PC game with graphics settings on HD textures, but output resolution of 800x600. It would have worked better on Vita for $40-50. The only reason why it's on PS4 is so that they can use it to hype FFXV.

And yeah, Ground Zeroes is moderately outrageous.

I don't buy that for a second. Graphics and frame rate, within an acceptable margin, don't matter too much. The worth of 0 (heh) should be determined by the quality of the story and gameplay. For instance, Monster Hunter 4 is a beautiful game with very low texture quality and a nothing story, but the gameplay and art design are great. That game's surely worth $60 or more.

It's also the only release of Type-0 in the west, where the console market is bigger (for which the standard MSRP is $60), so non-issue.

Don't hate me because I'm bnahabulous.

CaviarMeths

Haru17 wrote:

That game's surely worth $60 or more.

MRSP $40.

Charging 150% of what other games of comparable production values and appeal is not a market practice that I consider favorable. As much as I love the games they make, Atlus is getting bad for this too. They release their 3DS games for $50, because they know they can.

Edited on by CaviarMeths

So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.

SCRAPPER392

CaviarMeths wrote:

Haru17 wrote:

That game's surely worth $60 or more.

MRSP $40.

Ya, but Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate on Wii U was $60 when it came out. People were still happy with that game, and it sold good numbers, IIRC. The 3DS game was just cheaper, because it didn't have HD, surround sound, or online without Wii U via LAN cable. They put online in Monster Hunter 4, so the software has improved for the same prices, at least when it comes to Monster Hunter.

Qwest

3DS Friend Code: 4253-3737-8064 | Nintendo Network ID: Children

Haru17

CaviarMeths wrote:

Haru17 wrote:

That game's surely worth $60 or more.

MRSP $40.

Charging 150% of what other games of comparable production values and appeal is not a market practice that I consider favorable. As much as I love the games they make, Atlus is getting bad for this too. They release their 3DS games for $50, because they know they can.

I said 'worth' I didn't say it was financially viable to charge that. The Last of Us and Skyrim are both worth well over $100 for the same reason.

Don't hate me because I'm bnahabulous.

IceClimbers

@CaviarMeths To be fair, Atlus's games will drop in price to $30 and then be on sale more often than they're not. Won't be long until Etrian Odyssey Untold drops to $30.

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SCRAPPER392

Haru17 wrote:

CaviarMeths wrote:

Haru17 wrote:

That game's surely worth $60 or more.

MRSP $40.

Charging 150% of what other games of comparable production values and appeal is not a market practice that I consider favorable. As much as I love the games they make, Atlus is getting bad for this too. They release their 3DS games for $50, because they know they can.

I said 'worth' I didn't say it was financially viable to charge that. The Last of Us and Skyrim are both worth well over $100 for the same reason.

It depends. Elder Scrolls Oblivion was more expensive to make than Skyrim, probably. We're still early enough into the generation, that Super Smash Bros, Second Son, Sunset Overdrive, Xenoblade, etc. are probably the most expensive games we will get until next generation, because they were the first big batch of games, then it just gets cheaper work wise, because then they know how to do it better next time. The games improve, but they still get cheaper, because of earlier games. Nintendo probably spent more money to make Smash Bros, than anything Sony has done with PS4.

Qwest

3DS Friend Code: 4253-3737-8064 | Nintendo Network ID: Children

CaviarMeths

Haru17 wrote:

I said 'worth' I didn't say it was financially viable to charge that. The Last of Us and Skyrim are both worth well over $100 for the same reason.

The flaw in that reasoning is that games are "worth" something else to different people. Skyrim was near worthless to me because I found it mind-numbingly boring, even with mods.

It's a terrible business model to try and enact, hiring people to sit down and discuss what a game is "worth," and then exploiting or alienating fans with the decision. It's a waste of resources and none of the consumers are going to agree anyway. Nintendo was going to charge different prices for VC games depending on their "worth," but quickly realized how dumb that was and just made them $5 for NES games, $8 for SNES, etc.

Type-0 HD is not a $60 game.

So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.

SCRAPPER392

@CaviarMeths
Yes, but they are still throwing that $60 price on a $20-40, because it's a PS4/Xbox One game. The only reason why you would even buy it on console, is if you want surround sound, HD, or missed out on it entirely, because otherwise you can just pick up a copy on the PSP.

Whenever remakes or VC games happen on Nintendo, it probably would have cost more to buy the cartridge or disc. Type-0 is already overpriced, second hand, so now they getting money from people who want to play the game, but don't want to spend outrageous amounts of money on it, and they get HD, surround sound, and trophies to boot. That DOES tie in to them charging more. This is actually good news for PS fans, regardless of the price, because they figured out how to get PSP and probably PS Vita onto PS4, which is a different architecture than PS3.

Qwest

3DS Friend Code: 4253-3737-8064 | Nintendo Network ID: Children

CanisWolfred

CaviarMeths wrote:

Type-0 HD is not a $60 game.

Why? Because you can buy a copy on a dead system in a language you don't understand for $40?

We all know people will buy it at that price. And quite frankly, they should. It's not every day Square-Enix releases something worthwhile.

Edited on by CanisWolfred

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