As others have said, the current technological and social environment is one that would make it very, very unlikely for the Wii's casual gamer audience to return. It very much existed in a "right place, right time" point in history. Banking on the casual buck with a stupid control scheme gimmick might have made Nintendo a lot of money in the short run, but the Wii pretty much destroyed Nintendo's credibility with gamers and most Western third-parties just as HD gaming was taking off. Now the Wii U is reaping what was sown last gen.
I'm yet to see any solid evidence of the "alienated gamers" claim. It's usually just said by people who disliked the Wii themselves.
I think that's what he meant. It alienated gamers during the Wii's lifetime because of the direction they took during that period. Believe me, people honestly felt abandoned by Nintendo, myself included...You don't easily win people back once you've crossed them like that.
As others have said, the current technological and social environment is one that would make it very, very unlikely for the Wii's casual gamer audience to return. It very much existed in a "right place, right time" point in history. Banking on the casual buck with a stupid control scheme gimmick might have made Nintendo a lot of money in the short run, but the Wii pretty much destroyed Nintendo's credibility with gamers and most Western third-parties just as HD gaming was taking off. Now the Wii U is reaping what was sown last gen.
I'm yet to see any solid evidence of the "alienated gamers" claim. It's usually just said by people who disliked the Wii themselves.
I think that's what he meant. It alienated gamers during the Wii's lifetime because of the direction they took during that period. Believe me, people honestly felt abandoned by Nintendo, myself included...You don't easily win people back once you've crossed them like that.
That is why I think the best thing Nintendo can do is sink more money into the Wii U, I know that sounds crazy but it worked well for the PS3. The PS3 wasn't in as bad of a situation as the Wii U but I think it is a good comparison. Nintendo needs to prove they will support their hardware throughout its entire lifespan. You notice a lot of people that are on the fence about a Wii U are worried about it being replaced or software to stop releasing. This is directly caused by what Nintendo did with the Wii. You hear a lot of people complain the Wii didn't have many games near the end of its life, whether or not that is true it is what the majority think. Nintendo needs to prove that it will support its hardware with great software no matter what, and if you take a look it is what they are doing. It is a similar situation with the GameCube and N64 (two of the most popular but less successful systems in history) I think as long as Nintendo supports the Wii U throughout its lifespan and is able to secure a launch window about as impressive as the Wii U (maybe just more relevant titles and more indies at launch) then the Wii U2 will preform well, not matter what controller or hardware "limitations" it has... it might just want to make sure porting isn't as terrible. I hear lots of devs talk about how terrible ports are when not using Unity.
People keep saying the Xbox One doesn't have Backwards Compatibility.
I don't think they know what Backwards Compatibility means...
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That begs the question though, how can Nintendo recapture these audiences?
They can't. Casual gamers have moved on. As much as you don't want to admit it, they're perfectly happy playing their smartphone/tablet games. Why should any of them pay a few hundred dollars for a device when their smartphone/tablet can give them all the entertainment they need? They got bored of the family oriented Wii Sports games 15 minutes after they got their Wiis. They're not coming back.
The Wii's success was a fluke and won't happen again.
Except the Wii lasted through 2010, Wii Party sold over a million units, and Just Dance still sells millions. As much as you don't want to admit it, there is still a huge audience.
Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Tales of Graces F
As others have said, the current technological and social environment is one that would make it very, very unlikely for the Wii's casual gamer audience to return. It very much existed in a "right place, right time" point in history. Banking on the casual buck with a stupid control scheme gimmick might have made Nintendo a lot of money in the short run, but the Wii pretty much destroyed Nintendo's credibility with gamers and most Western third-parties just as HD gaming was taking off. Now the Wii U is reaping what was sown last gen.
I'm yet to see any solid evidence of the "alienated gamers" claim. It's usually just said by people who disliked the Wii themselves.
I think that's what he meant. It alienated gamers during the Wii's lifetime because of the direction they took during that period. Believe me, people honestly felt abandoned by Nintendo, myself included...You don't easily win people back once you've crossed them like that.
But you are speaking as if you represent everyone. I don't like first person perspective or right stick aiming. There are others who dislike it too, but it would be ignorant of me to say that this is a common opinion and it turned people away from shooters.
That is why I think the best thing Nintendo can do is sink more money into the Wii U, I know that sounds crazy but it worked well for the PS3. The PS3 wasn't in as bad of a situation as the Wii U but I think it is a good comparison. Nintendo needs to prove they will support their hardware throughout its entire lifespan. You notice a lot of people that are on the fence about a Wii U are worried about it being replaced or software to stop releasing. This is directly caused by what Nintendo did with the Wii. You hear a lot of people complain the Wii didn't have many games near the end of its life, whether or not that is true it is what the majority think. Nintendo needs to prove that it will support its hardware with great software no matter what, and if you take a look it is what they are doing. It is a similar situation with the GameCube and N64 (two of the most popular but less successful systems in history) I think as long as Nintendo supports the Wii U throughout its lifespan and is able to secure a launch window about as impressive as the Wii U (maybe just more relevant titles and more indies at launch) then the Wii U2 will preform well, not matter what controller or hardware "limitations" it has... it might just want to make sure porting isn't as terrible. I hear lots of devs talk about how terrible ports are when not using Unity.
Except the PS3 had a major redesign with a dramatic price cut before it saw success. The Wii U isn't really struggling in those areas (maybe a bit in price). Also, will the Wii U2 be endorsed by Bono?
Currently Playing: Steamworld Heist, The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, Tales of Graces F
I have a lot of casual friends. Its funny because they don't keep with games and stuff, and they believed the Wii came from a company called Wii and didn't even realize another console was released.
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As others have said, the current technological and social environment is one that would make it very, very unlikely for the Wii's casual gamer audience to return. It very much existed in a "right place, right time" point in history. Banking on the casual buck with a stupid control scheme gimmick might have made Nintendo a lot of money in the short run, but the Wii pretty much destroyed Nintendo's credibility with gamers and most Western third-parties just as HD gaming was taking off. Now the Wii U is reaping what was sown last gen.
I'm yet to see any solid evidence of the "alienated gamers" claim. It's usually just said by people who disliked the Wii themselves.
I think that's what he meant. It alienated gamers during the Wii's lifetime because of the direction they took during that period. Believe me, people honestly felt abandoned by Nintendo, myself included...You don't easily win people back once you've crossed them like that.
But you are speaking as if you represent everyone. I don't like first person perspective or right stick aiming. There are others who dislike it too, but it would be ignorant of me to say that this is a common opinion and it turned people away from shooters.
I'll admit, I don't have any genuine research, only hearsay, but that's all you got, too. That's all we all got. We're not actual researchers, nor are we Nintendo's Analysts. All I can say is I've met about 2 dozen people on and offline that said they stopped liking Nintendo around the Wii era. If you want more than that, go to college and become analyst, get hired by Nintendo, and then you can get your hands on actual case studies and research why people don't like Nintendo's products. I really do feel you're asking far too much from a fan-run internet forum...
Your big mistake is assuming that the Wii's success was purely because it was "casual friendly". Sure that was part of it but the real reason it hit big was because it was novel. Nobody had seen anything quite like it before and they created the perfect piece of software to explain it. If they had created a Wii successor that was literally a Wii with better visuals? Sure with hindsight it may have done "better" than the Wii U has but there was no way it was going to be as big.
The Wii U as it is was a gamble. A gamble in the same way that pretty much every one of their consoles has been at least somewhat of a gamble. Sometimes gambling in that way produces a flop, sometimes it's enough to just coast along, sometimes they hit it big. And frankly I'd rather a company like Nintendo gambled rather than just play it safe all the time. Because they can fail just as easily playing it safe. The history of consoles is littered with Nintendo competitors who played it too safe. Nintendo is still here.
Your big mistake is assuming that the Wii's success was purely because it was "casual friendly". Sure that was part of it but the real reason it hit big was because it was novel. Nobody had seen anything quite like it before and they created the perfect piece of software to explain it. If they had created a Wii successor that was literally a Wii with better visuals? Sure with hindsight it may have done "better" than the Wii U has but there was no way it was going to be as big.
The Wii U as it is was a gamble. A gamble in the same way that pretty much every one of their consoles has been at least somewhat of a gamble. Sometimes gambling in that way produces a flop, sometimes it's enough to just coast along, sometimes they hit it big. And frankly I'd rather a company like Nintendo gambled rather than just play it safe all the time. Because they can fail just as easily playing it safe. The history of consoles is littered with Nintendo competitors who played it too safe. Nintendo is still here.
^ This.
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Your big mistake is assuming that the Wii's success was purely because it was "casual friendly". Sure that was part of it but the real reason it hit big was because it was novel. Nobody had seen anything quite like it before and they created the perfect piece of software to explain it. If they had created a Wii successor that was literally a Wii with better visuals? Sure with hindsight it may have done "better" than the Wii U has but there was no way it was going to be as big.
The Wii U as it is was a gamble. A gamble in the same way that pretty much every one of their consoles has been at least somewhat of a gamble. Sometimes gambling in that way produces a flop, sometimes it's enough to just coast along, sometimes they hit it big. And frankly I'd rather a company like Nintendo gambled rather than just play it safe all the time. Because they can fail just as easily playing it safe. The history of consoles is littered with Nintendo competitors who played it too safe. Nintendo is still here.
I actually wasn't assuming that at all, I was just focusing on that element of the Wii's success. Otherwise this would just be other one of the hundred "how can the Wii U boost it's sales" topics. I don't think an HD Wii would be as big as the Wii, but there tends to be substantial hype in the tech world about graphical and performance boosts. You have many casual gamers who may be into other forms of tech, and buy power/resolution upgrades to their phones/computers/etc.
As others have said, the current technological and social environment is one that would make it very, very unlikely for the Wii's casual gamer audience to return. It very much existed in a "right place, right time" point in history. Banking on the casual buck with a stupid control scheme gimmick might have made Nintendo a lot of money in the short run, but the Wii pretty much destroyed Nintendo's credibility with gamers and most Western third-parties just as HD gaming was taking off. Now the Wii U is reaping what was sown last gen.
I'm yet to see any solid evidence of the "alienated gamers" claim. It's usually just said by people who disliked the Wii themselves.
I think that's what he meant. It alienated gamers during the Wii's lifetime because of the direction they took during that period. Believe me, people honestly felt abandoned by Nintendo, myself included...You don't easily win people back once you've crossed them like that.
But you are speaking as if you represent everyone. I don't like first person perspective or right stick aiming. There are others who dislike it too, but it would be ignorant of me to say that this is a common opinion and it turned people away from shooters.
I'll admit, I don't have any genuine research, only hearsay, but that's all you got, too. That's all we all got. We're not actual researchers, nor are we Nintendo's Analysts. All I can say is I've met about 2 dozen people on and offline that said they stopped liking Nintendo around the Wii era. If you want more than that, go to college and become analyst, get hired by Nintendo, and then you can get your hands on actual case studies and research why people don't like Nintendo's products. I really do feel you're asking far too much from a fan-run internet forum...
I actually did back up all my claims with either logical explanations or researched data. I guess you did explain Ralizah's in referring to the direction they took towards being more accessible, so fair point. Though I disagree. Sometimes it got annoying, but I feel that a fun game is a fun game no matter who it's targeted at. I had a blast playing Big Brain Academy on DS and Just Dance on 360 just as much as I did with Mario 64 and Tales of Vesperia (almost done). I think the gamers who would actually feel alienated by that are a small minority that tends to be overrepresented on gaming forums and social groups.
I feel like this sort of discussion has been exhausted at this point 2 1/2 years in really not much can be done this gen best they focus on next.
2.5 compared to 1.5 years really doesn't determine anything, seeing as they are still part of the same generation that will last for however long. When the consoles are out for longer, your statement will make more sense if things continue to go as they are, otherwise we're selling it out way to short, for the time being, and this is the truth, regardless of what the numbers are.
We could just as easily say Xbox One and PS4 aren't getting that great of games, either, because they are either rush jobs like The Order with graphics over gameplay as the focus, which is true, or that Xbox and PS brand legacy is actually what matters right now. As long as Xbox One and PS4 are getting slightly enhanced ports from last generation, and Wii U is on the sideline of it all, no one really has the right to say any console is straightup better, and that's mostly what it comes down to.
Saying they should give up and focus on next generation is pathetic, TBH. There's plenty of Wii U games Xbox and PS fans would buy on Xbox and PS, if they actually were on those consoles, so there is more to it than many would like to admit. If Crash Bandicoot came out on Wii U as an exclusive, PS fans still wouldn't buy it, because it's on Nintendo, and that's one of the games that got PS to be popular in the first place. Even Xenoblade, Hyrule Warriors, and Monster Hunter are practically the type of games people would have gotten on PS2, and now they are on Nintendo systems. That's literally the type of situation we're in right now. This even spreads to Xbox One, because it has mostly the same games as PS4, and PS4 is still selling better. That literally makes no sense, unless those people are biased for PS. It's not even about the games, anymore, and it's pretty sad.
To answer the OP, Nintendo HAS failed to regather the type of market they typically appeal to, but I would honestly say there isn't much of an explanation for it. The way I see it, Wii U is getting tons of games PS and Xbox gamers would play on their own consoles, if they were there. That's the "core" gamer.
"Casual" gamers are either on smartphone, 3DS, or not playing anything. There aren't even that many of the types of games that they were on Wii, on Wii U so that's the first thing that should be mentioned. That should tell more that Nintendo actually IS focusing more on the "core" market than anything right now.
Qwest
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1. The Wii was a product of its time and while apart of it was Iwata's blue Ocean strategy it was also successful because Nintendo made sacrifices that would bite them in the long term and had a bit of stroke of luck.
Continue to make great games and show that Nintendo will support their hardware throughout its lifespan, like Sony did with the PS3 even when that wasn't doing well. It built up consumer confidence enough that PS4 was being sold mainly on that confidence. Wii U might not be as successful as the other two but the Wii U2 could be.
And with the advertisement the console got and with the Hype mash those things together and the PS4 sold like crack cocaine. This is a good generation to be a Sony fan.
The Harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. When the going gets tough, the tough gets going.
That's part of what I'm saying. PS3 was mostly a devastating event for Sony; they didn't give up, and now PS is actually good for them again. It doesn't make sense to throw that all back on Wii U when Sony has factually been in multiple worse situations, like having to shut down their PC division, or currently debating whether TVs and smartphones are markets for them to be in, as well.
It goes deeper than just PS4, Xbox One, and Wii U. Sony is dropping markets, and Nintendo will be adding QoL products. That's the bigger picture, and this isn't even about the games. Even Google and Apple are involved in all this, so it's hard to pinpoint exactly where the market even is, anymore.
Continue to make great games and show that Nintendo will support their hardware throughout its lifespan, like Sony did with the PS3 even when that wasn't doing well. It built up consumer confidence enough that PS4 was being sold mainly on that confidence. Wii U might not be as successful as the other two but the Wii U2 could be.
And with the advertisement the console got and with the Hype mash those things together and the PS4 sold like crack cocaine. This is a good generation to be a Sony fan.
Sony only did well this generation because the PS4 reveal was after the Xbox One reveal. Andrew House confirmed in an interview that Sony's initial reveal was going to be pretty much identical to Microsoft's in terms of DRM and that clearly would've hurt their reputation even further. Don Mattrick wouldn't of changed anything so who knows, maybe at this point we'd be seeing another gaming crash of 1983.
I think part of which console is a success has to do with what each generation's rationale is. Kids under ten will basically just end up with whatever their parents or older siblings want. Teenagers will go with whatever is "cool" (who knows). People in their twenties and up if they get a console will mostly go for the nostalgia.
With the Wii they managed to convince parents that it was "exercise" so they got it for their kids. Teenagers, to some extent, got sucked into the novelty of the thing. Then there were the people in their twenties who were just old enough that Nintendo was their childhood. So Nintendo throws them Super Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart Wii and Smash Bros Brawl. Perfect alignment.
With the Wii U I'm not sure how well the idea of the Wii U sells to parents. I don't think "give kids a tablet for the TV" is a particularly good message. Certainly not as good as "it gets them moving". With teenagers they're definitely not at all sold on the idea of the Wii U. They brought the Sony message almost completely. Then twenty somethings now? Well at this point I reckon nostalgia is landing on GTA, Halo, Counter Strike and so on. So basically nothing has lined up for Nintendo this time.
Maybe..... I don't know, I reckon you can make any sort of BS theory up after the fact
That's something no business should ever say: never.
With that sort of mentality, any business (regardless of profits), will slowly plummet. Saying the word 'never' is like saying: Well, **** it, we give up. That would mean failure and with said mindset, such a business would learn nothing from it. Even at your job, accepting a limit of your capabilities cripples your work ethic and progression, efficiency. Nintendo can bounce back from the Wii and Wii U, the 3DS is proof of that.
Whether or not that happens is entirely up to Nintendo, unfortunately.
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@Chrono_Cross
Exactly. That's why all these "Oh well, they should try again next generation", is annoying beyond words. There's a difference between real criticism and straight up negativism.
@skywake
I would say I had one for all of those reasons. I always played current Nintendo systems since Donkey Kong 64 bundle and GBC, and I did get sucked up into motion control, but it was always about the "core" games for me. My mom wanted the exercise thing, but she only played it once, while I continued to play it. We got Wii Fit + when it first came out, and it got me Wii Fit U, 3 years later with the purchase of a $20 Wii Fit Meter, so I would say that brand loyalty has actually played a part more this generation, than any before. Club Nintendo was also pretty much a "core" fan thing, and we got full games like W101, Wii Party U, etc, and that actually does make fans feel better about buying a console.
Qwest
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I feel like this sort of discussion has been exhausted at this point 2 1/2 years in really not much can be done this gen best they focus on next.
2.5 compared to 1.5 years really doesn't determine anything, seeing as they are still part of the same generation that will last for however long. When the consoles are out for longer, your statement will make more sense if things continue to go as they are, otherwise we're selling it out way to short, for the time being, and this is the truth, regardless of what the numbers are.
@SCAR392 Actually the amount of time in a consoles life span to its current sales rate does mean a lot given that looking at sales data consoles peak sales happen 2-3 years in most cases and by this point all 7th gen consoles were selling at a much higher rate than the Wii U is currently. Even though sales have picked up a tiny amount so far compared to early 2014 they are still bad showing that mostly likely the audience is gone or just don't care about the device so given its lack of popularity I can't see the system lasting 3 more years, so yes 2.5 years in (basically half its life) this conversation has been exhausted given that a turn around most likely won't be happening.
The second half of your post I feel has no bearing on what I said so I'm not addressing it.
I wasn't even one who road the "Wii Wave" that Nintendo needed to recapture- but I am somebody who was in their target market in that I'm more of a casual gamer. The gamepad is what piqued my interest. Nintendo's problem is that they have not communicated how much fun the system is and part of that is then convincing Wii (and 3ds) owners to upgrade.
I think that not having Minecraft on the system has hurt it. Might not be the answer to its problems, but kids these days are so obsessed with it that if you can't play it, that will be a deal killer or at least cause people to look elsewhere.
No matter what people say, I genuinely believe that the idea that the Wii's market moved to smartphones is mostly BS. If you look at the sales of simple, smartphone style games on the Wii, they are abysmal to say the least. Where the Wii did particularly well was with party style games like Wii Party, NSMB, or Just Dance, or kid friendly games like Skylanders and the Lego games. Smartphones and tablets continue to fail in offering these types of experiences that made the Wii successful, so I don't think they have really taken most of the Wii's market.
That begs the question though, how can Nintendo recapture these audiences? The Wii U is a system that has sold mostly to male Nintendo fans and some kids (but not explosively like with the Wii) (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224449/Wii_U_eShop_audience_is_93_percent_male_18plus.php Some of that is a bit of speculation around the data, for the record).
If you ask me, there are a few critical things Nintendo needs to do.
Get Minecraft on the Wii U, and ADVERTISE IT- Nintendo systems missing out on such a hit is a severe blow to their appeal with kids. It makes the PS360 and XB1 and PS4 far more appealing.
Start bundling a Wii Remote+ and Nunchuck with the system- Look, the Gamepad isn't the super intuitive device that screams "fun" from the second you see it like the Wii Remote was. That doesn't mean the Gamepad has to go, but it does mean Nintendo needs to be able to stress the use of the Wii Remote to consumers. Casuals and kids liked the Wii because it was easy to pick up and play, with a very small learning curve and a huge initial payoff. The Gamepad is just as complicated, if not more complicated than a regular controller.
Advertise better and more realistically- Stop stressing family gaming so hard. It embarrasses kids and turns away older audiences. Instead work on promoting the system on group fun, that is, groups of friends, clubs, communities, etc.
Now the name is still a problem, but Nintendo really can't just up and change the name of the system midlaunch. But in doing the above 3 things, I genuinely believe that they would fair far better with the casual and kid crowd that the Wii roped in.
@Jazzer94
Ya, but now you are assuming that these consoles will only last 5-6 years, in total. That is why I said Wii U is part of the same generation, regardless of the types of sales it has.
The second half of my post is relevant, because if everyone had the same type of attitude for consoles as you are having for Wii U, right now, PS4 would have come out in 2011, because PS3 was even more devastating for Sony than Wii U or even GameCube has been for Nintendo, and Sony didn't quit and focus on next generation right away. If Sony is part of the gaming community, we still have to look at their situation along with Xbox One and Wii U, otherwise there isn't really any immediate basis to say much of anything.
Qwest
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Topic: The Wii U has failed to recapture audiences the Wii was successful with. How can NIntendo fix it?
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