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Topic: The PS4 Has Officially Outsold the Wii U In 2/3 Markets.

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Marakuto

121. Posted:

RancidVomit86 wrote:

I don't really care who makes the console as long as it has games I want so yes I might buy a PS4 in future. As I always like to say, I don't just play say Nintendo games, I play video games.

This. I often get into big arguments with people who say why I play this and I that and end up getting shunned.

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Kodeen

122. Posted:

kyuubikid213 wrote:

@JohnRedcorn It's because both SquareEnix and Sony are BETTER than this. Sony dropped backwards compatibility for some arbitrary reason and SquareEnix just rereleased the same game! Sony is capable of making a powerhouse of a system that doesn't completely abandon the past iteration (as with the PS2 and original PS3s) and SquareEnix is capable of making new experiences or at the very least, not rehash a game less than a year old!

I wouldn't say a complete architecture shift is an arbitrary reason for disallowing BC. And you mention the early PS3 having it (by way of including the PS2 chipset seperately), do you remember how much those cost?

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MikeLove

123. Posted:

Unca_Lz wrote:

It is a little too soon to say that the PS4 is the next PS2. We can see a momentum shift downward for the PS4 (and the Xbox One for that matter). Considering how the economy sucks and the market is fickle, anything is possible

I think the chances of any system surpassing the sales of the PS2 are slim and none. It benefitted immensely from the fact it was so easily hacked, and I don't see any other future consoles being hacked like that due to their strong dependence on online connectivity.

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shingi_70

124. Posted:

kyuubikid213 wrote:

@JohnRedcorn It's because both SquareEnix and Sony are BETTER than this. Sony dropped backwards compatibility for some arbitrary reason and SquareEnix just rereleased the same game! Sony is capable of making a powerhouse of a system that doesn't completely abandon the past iteration (as with the PS2 and original PS3s) and SquareEnix is capable of making new experiences or at the very least, not rehash a game less than a year old!

They dropped Backwards compatability for the same reason that Microsoft did, they moved to a completely different architecture and putting in the Hardware that would have allowed for BC would have been really expensive, Sony also had Playstation Now in the works and Microsoft is working on their own system codenamed rio.

Nintendo decided to stay with the same overall hardware base that the Gamecube and Wii had, which is one of the reasons why Third Partys bailed. Now Nintendo is stuck in a hard place whereas sales show that the gamble they made to keep BC for games and controllers didn't pan out at all. Now when they do decide to go to X86 like the others have they will have lost two generations of BC and won't have any sort of service to make up for it.

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AJ_Lethal

125. Posted:

shingi_70 wrote:

Now when they do decide to go to X86 like the others have they will have lost two generations of BC and won't have any sort of service to make up for it.

Given Nintendo's plans a switch to x86 is highly unlikely. I bet they will switch to ARM.

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kyuubikid213

126. Posted:

@shinji_70 and @Kodeen
You're saying the extra cost of real backwards compatibility as opposed to the doomed to fail server farms known as PSNow wouldn't be worth it? At most, the PS4 and One would jump an extra $100 and people would still buy it if not more with the promise of being able to play last generation's games. And aside from that, people wouldn't even have to shell out the full price since selling the PS3 or 360 would be a more viable option.

And third parties strayed from Nintendo for a different reason than their architecture. The games made to run on the Wii U (that run beautifully) show that laziness is more of an issue than architecture. If devs took as much time getting to know the Wii U's hardware as they did the other systems, that would be a non-issue.

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SCAR392

127. Posted:

@shingi_70
Xbox 360(PowerPC) played Xbox(×86) games. That's why all this talk of BC incompatibilities and such, are BS.

When Microsoft announced the Xbox One, last year, they straight up lied about BC being impossible. Impossible is different from taking time and resources to accomplish.

EDIT: The architecture differences between Xbox 360 and Wii U to Xbox One, don't effect the bottom line of BC or porting games from Xbox One to Wii U.

Edited on by SCAR392

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RancidVomit86

128. Posted:

AJ_Lethal wrote:

shingi_70 wrote:

Now when they do decide to go to X86 like the others have they will have lost two generations of BC and won't have any sort of service to make up for it.

Given Nintendo's plans a switch to x86 is highly unlikely. I bet they will switch to ARM.

Unless they use ARMv8 I hope not. Still think x86 would be a better route for them to go as it looks like x86 is the future of the desktop. But I guess less power consumption from an ARM architecture could be an advantage.

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shingi_70

129. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

@shingi_70
Xbox 360(PowerPC) played Xbox(×86) games. That's why all this talk of BC incompatibilities and such, are BS.

When Microsoft announced the Xbox One, last year, they straight up lied about BC being impossible. Impossible is different from taking time and resources to accomplish.

EDIT: The architecture differences between Xbox 360 and Wii U to Xbox One, don't effect the bottom line of BC or porting games from Xbox One to Wii U.

And Xbox 360 BC was pretty terrible with not every game support and some running like crap.

And yes the Architecture differences do have some effect on porting. I mean with the PC/Xbone/PS4 being so close in design why would I take resources from that to get guys to learn the Wii U and make a version of the game for it. Especially in light of recent sales between the three.

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AJ_Lethal

130. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

@shingi_70
Xbox 360(PowerPC) played Xbox(×86) games. That's why all this talk of BC incompatibilities and such, are BS.

Eh... OG Xbox games were emulated in the 360 (that's why you can't play all OG XB games in the 360)

RancidVomit86 wrote:

Unless they use ARMv8 I hope not. Still think x86 would be a better route for them to go as it looks like x86 is the future of the desktop. But I guess less power consumption from an ARM architecture could be an advantage.

x86 future of the desktop? Is this 1970?

Rhetoric aside, the ARM architecture is progressing at a really damn fast rate. I don't see any objections to an ARM console by 2017 given it's widespread adoption and efficiency.

Edited on by AJ_Lethal

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shingi_70

131. Posted:

kyuubikid213 wrote:

@shinji_70 and @Kodeen
You're saying the extra cost of real backwards compatibility as opposed to the doomed to fail server farms known as PSNow wouldn't be worth it? At most, the PS4 and One would jump an extra $100 and people would still buy it if not more with the promise of being able to play last generation's games. And aside from that, people wouldn't even have to shell out the full price since selling the PS3 or 360 would be a more viable option.

And third parties strayed from Nintendo for a different reason than their architecture. The games made to run on the Wii U (that run beautifully) show that laziness is more of an issue than architecture. If devs took as much time getting to know the Wii U's hardware as they did the other systems, that would be a non-issue.

Why in gods name would I throw an extra $100 for something that most people don't seem to care about. Once again even if say BC was in the works wouldn't yu have taken it out after seeing how the Wii U did its first few months.

To your second point again why would I put the man hours and resource into gettig guys to make my game when the other two console makers pretty much came to and said what do you think this machine should be like. Developers didnt have to take much time getting to know the other two systems since for all intensive purposes both the Xbox One and PS4 are pretty generic game boxes from a hardware standpoint.

I wouldn't exactly call PSnow a doomed server farm, doing so is pretty ignorant since its a total play for the future of games rather than the now, Look at how long it took instant streaming to become the core of Netflix's bussiness compared to playing with DVDs.

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Kodeen

132. Posted:

kyuubikid213 wrote:

You're saying the extra cost of real backwards compatibility as opposed to the doomed to fail server farms known as PSNow wouldn't be worth it?

I am. The initial sales of the PS3 bare evidence of it. And PSNow is an opt-in, paid-for subscription service that can be scaled based on demand, not quite the same as including a chipset that some of the potential buyers might not even be interested in.

kyuubikid213 wrote:

At most, the PS4 and One would jump an extra $100

Is that the component cost of PS3 and 360? Where is that number from?

kyuubikid213 wrote:

And aside from that, people wouldn't even have to shell out the full price since selling the PS3 or 360 would be a more viable option.

Trading in your current system has no bearing on Sony or MS, since they don't see any of the money from the resale.

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RancidVomit86

133. Posted:

@AJ_Lethal Till I see ARM outperform what x86 can do then yes it is. They are continually making advancements with both chippers so that dog and pony show can go either way.

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SCAR392

134. Posted:

AJ_Lethal wrote:

SCAR392 wrote:

@shingi_70
Xbox 360(PowerPC) played Xbox(×86) games. That's why all this talk of BC incompatibilities and such, are BS.

Eh... OG Xbox games were emulated in the 360 (that's why you can't play all OG XB games in the 360)

RancidVomit86 wrote:

Unless they use ARMv8 I hope not. Still think x86 would be a better route for them to go as it looks like x86 is the future of the desktop. But I guess less power consumption from an ARM architecture could be an advantage.

x86 future of the desktop? Is this 1970?

Rhetoric aside, the ARM architecture is progressing at a really damn fast rate. I don't see any objections to an ARM console by 2017 given it's widespread adoption and efficiency.

It doesn't really matter. Having 1/2 of the Xbox 360 library on you Xbox One is better than 0. Besides, most of the Xbox 360 games use a older form of current game engines. All they would have to do is artificially scale them up or something similar, so stronger technology can read older game engines. The Wi U is already doing that.

@shingi_70
You would have someone learn PowerPC, because you're ignoring a part of the market that would be relevant if you learned about it. Go back to the Wii U's first announcement... 3rd party devs were more than happy to put their current games out, because Nintendo was literally inviting them them to cash grab with previously developed games that needed little to no change.
Go forward to Xbox One and PS4... They knew they had to take advantage of these new machines, because their old games were already running on those past machines, and people were expecting more than they were for Wii U.
The sales don't matter, because the general consensus was different for Xbox and PS than it was from Wii U. At worst, that has effected consumer opinion, hence, lo sales, but they basically had lower expectations for Nintendo, so that effected the expectations of consumers.

Fast forward to now, and we've already seen proof of DX11 on Wii U. Giana Sisters, Candle, Child of Light, etc. other games have the DX11. Wii U didn't natively support those features, but they worked them out. Or look at EA's Frostbite, or the Cry Engine. They run on Wii U. They used to not be able to, but they put the work in, and now they do. Now all we have to do is be patient ans see whether they make anything of their next gen engines for Wii U.

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RancidVomit86

135. Posted:

@SCAR392 I like how you always try to make development sound like it's as easy as a push of a button. Do you know that time and money actually go into all this? It's actual work not just pushing a button. Not really trying to bash on you. I just really think that you believe it's all a lot easier than it is.

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AJ_Lethal

136. Posted:

RancidVomit86 wrote:

@AJ_Lethal Till I see ARM outperform what x86 can do then yes it is. They are continually making advancements with both chippers so that dog and pony show can go either way.

I assure you the gap will be closer in 3-5 years: http://www.notebookcheck.net/SoC-Shootout-x86-vs-ARM.99496.0....

SCAR392 wrote:

It doesn't really matter. Having 1/2 of the Xbox 360 library on you Xbox One is better than 0. Besides, most of the Xbox 360 games use a older form of current game engines. All they would have to do is artificially scale them up or something similar, so stronger technology can read older game engines. The Wi U is already doing that.

Did I mention XB emulation in 360 was rather cumbersome and buggy?

Also, the Wii U is a PPC powered console, like the Wii. That's why it can play (or rather emulate the whole Wii, if you want to put it in layman terms) Wii games.

Edited on by AJ_Lethal

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SCAR392

137. Posted:

RancidVomit86 wrote:

@SCAR392 I like how you always try to make development sound like it's as easy as a push of a button. Do you know that time and money actually go into all this? It's actual work not just pushing a button. Not really trying to bash on you. I just really think that you believe it's all a lot easier than it is.

Read the last part of my post. I know they put work in, but that work was a one time deal.

EA and Crytek already have their 8th gen engines running on Wii U. That's a one time thing. Ubisoft has also been making progress for Wii U, which is probably why Watch_Dogs got delayed. Who knows, maybe they got the 8th gen version running or they need to enhance online...? Ubisoft might see that as being better for their image, even if Wii U's version comes out later than they had hoped.

Edited on by SCAR392

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SCAR392

138. Posted:

@AJ_Lethal
It really depends. I never ran into an Xbox game that didn't run on Xbox 360, but I had played very few, but they looked fine to me.

Also, I'm not comparing Wii U to Xbox One for BC. I understand that Wii U essentially has Wii parts in it, so BC is easy. I was just trying to point out that Xbox One would be able to run Xbox 360 games, even though they said it couldn't when they announced it.

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bezerker99

139. Posted:

I'll give a hundred bucks for a used PS4 to one of my friends who'll get one and sell it a year from now due to boredom.
Just like I did with his PS3.

Edited on by bezerker99

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Kodeen

140. Posted:

Maybe. It takes a lot of horsepower for a current x86 PC to run a certain emulator for a certain Nintendo console, which had a 729mhz single core PPC CPU. The 360 has a tri-core 3.2 GHZ CPU. Not saying it's impossible, but it would be a lot trickier than emulating the Xbox on the 360 was.

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