Topic: The "Next Gen Dilemma"

Yeah sure I get that. But the jump from 8 to 16 to 32 to 64 bit always offered a change in the way games are presented and experienced. More colors, bigger levels, more dimensions it all changed the experience. All I am saying is lets compare Xbox 1 to Xbox 360. I can play Halo on Xbox 1 (which was the reason I got one) but the jump to HD on XBox 360 didn't change much of the formula in the new Halo games onwards. Still it's Halo and I enjoyed it but it still was a "space shooter".

Compare the original "Kid Icarus" to the new one on 3DS.
That's a next gen jump there (several in fact). Obviously.

All I am saying is if a game is boring and not innovative in 480p it also will be the same in 1080p and if the general quality of triple A games for triple A money doesn't raise it doesn't matter what generation of hardware it's running on. Sure you couldn't run Mario Galaxy on a NES and have the same experience. But you could have it on Wii U, most likely it would have some gamepad funcionality tacked on but just making it in HD doesn't make it a new/better or innovative game (it's an awesome game though, don't get me wrong).

I hope You know how I mean it.
Sure you need new hardware for new gaming experiences. But playing something in Full HD compared to playing it in 480p doesn't make much differnce (except it's a "find the dead pixel game" - and then I'd prefer the 480p game ) if the only differnence is only resolution and not concept!

Newxt gen! I like that!

Still I could take a step back and - given the proper ideas and proper budget - make a better game on the Wii than on the Wii U. It's right what you're a saying but it's not automatically SPAWNING innovation. Someone could still come up with an awesome concept for a game for Wii that no one thought about on any of the other consoles. That's why I really appreciate all the praise small studios seem to have for Nintendo, going as far as even suggesting how to use the Gamepad to enhance their games!

Ah god. I'm posting too much!

Why thank you. Who knows where the discussion of next/new gen consoles will take us. It could be a wild ride!

I think to truly get a new experience indie developers are going to have to drive it. These big companies budgets have already gotten so large they almost can't afford to take a chance. Games have the budget of films now. EA will pay what Paramount pays to get something made in some cases. I don't see how they can keep it up. This is one of the reasons why I applaud a group like Ubisoft with the release of Zombi U. I really hope that works out.

Outside of them, Activision has been the only company taking chances. Skylanders was the only new IP last year that you could truly consider a hit. This begs the question. We have mentioned that developers will drive next gem, and I totally agree with you on this. However, we as the consumer have a responsibility as well to demand these innovations in the industry. Honestly, we are not doing a very good job of that.

We are content to take the next COD, Mass Effect, Halo, or Mario. I realize that the money off those games allow companies to build a Skylanders, and now, it seems as if that title will start funding other projects. In the case of Skylanders, we as the consumer recognized this new innovation. However, in a game like Zack and Wiki for the Wii. It was ignored for the most part.

I guess as long as we are content to purchase massive quantities of sequels we should expect to keeping getting them. We just need to remember that games share a lot of the same qualities as films. If done often enough, even new innovations will become stale. Sorry for the rant.

Yes. You could make a better game on the Wii than on the Wii U. Gameplay and graphics/proccessing power are 2 entirely different things. What the game offers is up to the developer. The game the developer makes depend on what a developer thinks and wants to do in their game. If they don't want to use the GamePad, they won't. If they want to use it a certain way, they will. The developers of games and developers of the system are completely different people, and don't use BS when quoting me like stating facts about Miyamoto and others. That's not what I meant, I believe I'm making myself clear. Nintendo will listen to the developers and fans like they did with the Wii U which is why is had the circle pads it does instead of the 3DS's circle pads. But I will restate this, the system was not made for the games, the games were made for the systems. Next gen games can only be played on next gen systems. You can have a great next gen game, sure, but you'd need a next gen system to play it.

EDIT: Also, good games and good graphics are 2 different things, which I don't think you understand.

Easily agreeable. Well I think the "big boys" have to learn it the hard way anyways, they are too far into the common system of the gaming industry already. Thats why I say instead of spending 60 bucks on a port of a game that's coming out every year without much innovation rather go to the eShop and give 4-6 (depending on price) Indy Games a chance. The activity on the eShop doesn't go unnoticed and Nintendo (or MS with xbox live marketplace and sony...) surely take note that a "place for indy games" is something that appeals to the customers and deserves some attention and focus. You already see it: compare releases of indy games on Wii to the releases on 3DS eShop. More frequent. More selection. Better versions. Thats the way to go!

I think we're talking in different directions. Of course good games and good graphics are 2 different things, what do you think why I brought up the example of making a better game on Wii? Next gen is a term used by marketing to make customers feel "something new, something better than last gen" is coming. Regardless of how much power your system of choice has, if I get just another shooter in higher resolution I don't feel "next gen" anywhere. If I would get a 3000 people console MMO, with voice chat, playermade quests and alien invasions (just making something random up) that hasn't been done before on any console on WII, it would be the WII having the next gen game.

Anyways. I don't want to step on your toes. Im just saying having "next gen hardware" doesn't give me automatically a "next gen" experience.

Again, I don't agree. It would not be the next-gen game on Wii, it would be a better game on the Wii, or something developers never thought of on the Wii. Being a better game doesn't mean it's next-gen. And there isn't really much developers haven't thought of with Wii.

Fair enough. A question I have to you is: What is Wii U then? And if you think it's next gen, where and how is it?
And sorry Im really not trying to get on your nerves on purpose!

The Wii U is next gen. It is next gen because it offers new expiriences only availible with Wii U. The Wii, PS3, and Xbox 360(all of which were last gen) did not offer the types of expiriences Wii U has.

I have one other thing to say, when I thought about it. I think a next gen console can have a last gen game, but I do not think a last gen console can have a next gen game.

And I understand you aren't trying to get on my nerves.

you have a different definition of "next gen". disussion is kinda worthless. you can discuss about what makes a game or console or whatever innovative but next gen just means new consoles. thats it. it has always been like that. like a tree is a tree

Exactly, well said. :thumbs up:
This whole discussion seems bizarre to me. The term "next gen" has never meant some magical thing. It's just means simply that — the next generation of systems. It's never meant anything more than that.

The real dilemma is wondering when people will realize WiiU is already out, and is therefore, "current gen".

yeah^^
when the 7th generation came out (xbox360) people started to mark that current gen (xbox360) as next gen even months after all 3 consoles have been released. i think thats why many people are confused or thik next gen can be defined as what they want.

this should finally end this thread:
saying Wii to WiiU (example) is not the start of a new generation is like saying that Dad to Son is not the start of a new generation.
HA! got ya!

What experience - currently - is there on Wii U thats not available on other systems? Navigating my console with a touchscreen? I don't want to throw a stick at your feet, its just a serious question.

And for what you people mean about "I have a different definition of next gen" - then yes, I stated that all the time in my original post. Next gen, in short, for me is when a gaming system does something thats better or not available on other systems but for me that difference is always made in the games themselves and as of lately I don't see too much different things on Wii U than I have seen the past years on my xbox or my PC. Not saying MS or Sony will do anything better, thats why Im putting all my hope into Indygames. And yes for you it might seem like I am mixing SOFT- and HARDWARE but for me it goes hand in hand.

Imagine if the Wii would have gotten ALL cross platform games of "last generation" - but scaled down to its capabilities, thus reducing visual appeal, BUT the core gameplay would have been intact. Do you really think anyone owning and loving their Wii would have cared? Do you remember your most favourite games of the past and think "oh that was pixelated"?

I just think the "NEXT GEN" experience can break loose on any system regardless of hardware specs, basicly I am saying just because Sony and MS will most likels release more powerful consoles in about a year's time doesn't mean the Wii U will suck because better hardware doesn't make better games automatically.

Anyways, to each one their own!

Besides, I want more 3DS games in EU!!

If the Son is doing exactly the same things as his dad he might still be the NEXT gen (that became current gen the moment of his birth) but it won't matter to anyone. Silly example. But oh my. Im just posting all of this because everyone before the launch of a new console is like: "YEAAHA NEXT GEN" and then, when the console is at home and the first bunch of games gets released, nothing changed. You know how I mean it? Anyways iM not complaining or forcing my opinion onto you or anyone else, I just like to put my thoughts out there and get response of people like you and the others that all have their own mindset, different experiences in life and different expectations of "next gen". After all its all a matter of preference and if you like spending your money onto something and it gives you fun in your off-time, it doesn't matter what it is called!

Hm... there's playing a full console game independant of the TV, there's seeing a seperate screen people with WiiMotes on the opposing team can't see(like Luigi's Ghost Mansion), there's things like being able to fling ninja stars at the TV(Takamuru's Ninja Castle), there's looking from the TV to the GamePad to control someone(like in Balloon Trip Breeze), or maybe jumping in and helping your or not helping your teammates out(NSMBU) there's being able to look around the room off the TV to find something(like looking for criminals in LEGO City: Undercover) there's looking at the gamepad for referance(like looking at the map while playing Pikmin 3 with a WiiMote) and that's just the beginning.

okay scolurio
you just want to have your very own definition of "next gen". whatever...