Topic: The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild

I guess, that is very important. The GBA got even a "Mini Edition" in the form of GameBoy Micro in autumn of 2005. But the GBA did sell over 80 million. A number the WiiU will never reach.

A moot point considering Nintendo's handhelds have always blown away the consoles in sales numbers. Heck, the only Nintendo console to beat that number is the Wii.

That may be true, but the other problem I see is just Zelda's design as a whole. Mario Maker is very simple because most of Mario's games are simple 2D platforming. Zelda on the other hand is more complex with story (yes, story), exploration, dungeons, items, and bosses. A maker may take out some of the things that make Zelda what it is for those of us who are ignorant in modding. This is just my opinion though.

I really hope we get a new menacing and crazy villian. Ganondorf is literally just like Bowser, in my opinion.

I wouldn't mind seeing a new Villain, but I'll personally be fine if they decide to feature Ganondorf again. Well, as long as they make him a bit more interesting and unique.

Oh, come on, Ganondorf is better than Bowser if only for sheer stage presence. I just want a villain with reasonable motivations for once, though.

I want a Ganondorf with motivation like in Wind Waker. I mean just like 1 minute of dialogue made him my favorite version of Ganon in the entire franchise. Instead of just "he's evil cuz he's supposed to be".

Yeah. Do that, except without him being the big bad adult who hits and chokes out children and we're getting somewhere.

When children are shooting magic arrows at me and waving legendary swords in my face, it's totally fair game.

It's still hard to sympathize with the 'troubled' bad guy when he's an ugly old man punching 12-year-olds.

@Haru17: being ugly and old's got nothing to do with it. Would you sympathize better with a villain younger than said 12yr old? If you think about it, why is a 12yr old challenging him in the first place? where are all the ADULTS? shouldn't they be taking up arms to defeat him? I digress, Ganondorf is still an awesome villain IMO.

Because Wind Waker was styled after a kid's cartoon / anime.

Being ugly and old's got nothing to do with it. Would you sympathize better with a villain younger than said 12yr old?

I'm not saying I agree with that kind of simple pathos, but at a base level people naturally sympathize better with people who are superficially similar to them. Moreover, if I'm 12 and playing Wind Waker I'm rooting for the child hero, not the mean, ugly adult.

And Ganondorf is clearly made to be ugly/monstrous in this game. No normal humans look like this:

And do ignore the text.

You don't need to sympathize with a villain at all! That's silliness. What about Sephiroth, Kefka, Metal Face.....etc etc. Just being suitably wicked is enough.

Wasn't Ganondorf also in a Link to the Past? I love that game but I forget who was the main villain in that game...

Ganon, not Ganondorf, and yes, but he only appears at the end. The villain throughout most of the story is Agahnim. Who is kinda also Ganon.

What's interesting is that the way you defeat Agahnim is also the way you defeat Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time. And then in both games, Ganon rises from the corpse of Agahnim/Ganondorf.

Perhaps, but the psychopath / evil route only gets you so far. They never have any motivations other than 'the plot told me to' or circular logic versions of that.

I guess you don't like the Joker then? Or any of the more popular Doctor Who villains, given that the Daleks and the Master are near impossible to sympathise with.

But honestly, what matters is whether Ganon is made interesting as a character in his own right, regardless of the portrayal. Majora was interesting, Bellum wasn't. Both were basically the same sort of concept, except only one was done well.

I believe what I said was "Perhaps, but the psychopath / evil route only gets you so far." Meaning that there is quality in straight villains, TWW and TP Ganondorf being prime examples, but that has been done forever in every Nintendo game except, perhaps, Paper Mario 2 & 3.

Now that they've set up the whole 'destined to clash in the future' plot I'd like to see something that plays on the inevitability of their fate, perhaps despite the desires of whatever the current incarnation of Ganondorf is. After all, Zelda was a goddess (ugh) and is now a human, so shouldn't the same apply to Ganondorf, having been the demon king (UGH) he's now a human.

Couldn't "the plot told me to" cover any motivation in a story?

I would counter by saying that NOT going with the evil route only gets you so far too. It's a tradeoff. If they're not genuinely evil in some way, they're very unlikely to be threatening or worth fearing. That's something I need in a proper antagonist, they need to be scary and have an apparent chance of winning.

What I'd like to see is some proper motivation beyond the simple good/evil setup. The villains could in my opinion do horrible crimes without relying to the comical mustache twirling that's the trademark of Nintendo baddies (Bowser, most Ganon's etc.) Perhaps the villain lost his parents at a young age and is on a crusade to purge the world of crime, but is terribly misguided on his ways — just to name an example.

What I'd like to see sometime is that Nintendo would explore the three facets of the Triforce properly. As of now, the holder of the Power has always been the bad guy: it wouldn't have to be like that. Power itself is neutral, after all. It can be used for good as well as evil. To further shake things up, maybe Courage, the power to face insurmountable odds, could be twisted into foolhardy irreverence towards life or Wisdom to crooked omniscience. This could be an interesting groundwork for a villain, methinks.

Congratulations, you have successfully copied my syntax. But back to actual points...

It's a tradeoff. If they're not genuinely evil in some way, they're very unlikely to be threatening or worth fearing. That's something I need in a proper antagonist, they need to be scary and have an apparent chance of winning.

Have you watched Code Geass? People who disagree to the point of violence with weapons are always imposing. The fights in that series carried weight because the characters' motivations naturally carried them into conflict. Scar from FMA was the same way.

Well, Ganondorf's character has always been authoritative. He's older and in-command of a number of things, so that was the expression of power in Zelda.