Wii U Forum

Topic: The depressing state of the WiiU release schedule

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gage_wolf

221. Posted:

Bringing up CoD up in this forum has basically become the easy scapegoat to divert criticism away from Nintendo, and instantly makes any further discussion pointless. CoD is basically a competitive sport. It lives and breathes due to its online multiplayer that allows people all over the world to talk sh** , one up each other with rankings, nerd out on "weapon types", and basically vent their frustrations out via simulated warfare. Almost like Madden, CoD releases are iterations that are released fairly frequently to keep the fans "fed", thus the heavy reusing of assets and game mechanics.

Everything I just listed is basically the complete opposite of what Nintendo is trying to do with their games, and I'm pretty sure that's why most of us are here on these forums. So why does CoD come up so often? Anytime someone criticizes Nintendo for playing it safe or not utilizing the gamepad someone has to jump to "WELL WHAT ABOUT CoD!?!?" Do Nintendo's releases for the Wii U somehow seem better by comparing them to something completely unrelated, aka CoD? Compare the Wii U, in its current state, to the Wii, when it was a year in, as that's a fairer comparison, and tell me the Wii U doesn't seem underwhelming and less creative.

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Unca_Lz

222. Posted:

But gamers tend to single Nintendo out when it comes to these kinds of trends, yet the market data shows that we don't really need anything too groundbreaking to sell a game

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shingi_70

223. Posted:

Did Uncaand jump mad fuse together?

WAT!

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skywake

224. Posted:

gage_wolf wrote:

Bringing up CoD up in this forum has basically become the easy scapegoat to divert criticism away from Nintendo, and instantly makes any further discussion pointless. CoD is basically a competitive sport.

And games like Smash Bros, Kart and Pokemon are not? Games like Starcraft are at the heart of the definition of eSports and those games have never taken it to the CoD extreme. If people want to accuse Nintendo of being uncreative and derivative with their content they need a better explanation than that.

gage_wolf wrote:

Compare the Wii U, in its current state, to the Wii, when it was a year in, as that's a fairer comparison, and tell me the Wii U doesn't seem underwhelming and less creative.

Indeed. However you must also remember that the Wii got a lot of crap in its first year along the same lines. I got a Wii at launch and basically had nothing to play between Twilight Princess/Wii Sports at launch and the delayed release Super Paper Mario in Aus in August. That said, lets compare anyways

Wii:
Zack & Wiki
Super Mario Galaxy
Wii Sports
Zelda: Twilight Princess
Metroid Prime 3
Super Paper Mario
Mario Strikers Charged
Red Steel

Wii U:
Nintendo Land
New SMB U
Super Mario 3D World
DKC:TF
The Wonderful 101
Pikmin 3
Wind Waker HD
Rayman Legends
Zombi U

I don't know, to me it seems like other than Galaxy and Wii Sports which were admittedly massive the Wii U's notable game's list looks pretty damn good. Is Zack and Wiki better than Rayman Legends? Does Twilight Princess really beat Wind Waker HD? I know Red Steel doesn't come close to ZombiU. I don't think you have that much of an argument here.

Edited on by skywake

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Dave24

225. Posted:

skywake wrote:

Wii U:
Nintendo Land
New SMB U
Super Mario 3D World
DKC:TF
The Wonderful 101
Pikmin 3
Wind Waker HD
Rayman Legends
Zombi U
Lego City Undercover
Sonic Lost World

Fixed that for you.

People mostly complain about Nintendo and their release schelude, dreamcast or whatever, because that's what is hip and top story about Nintendo on the media. It wasn't pointed out with Wii because it was hyped console and the best thing you could get back then. Now with so many negativity towards Nintendo, people are seeking for something that really isn't there and actually was always like that or is little better now.

Edited on by Dave24

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Dreamz

226. Posted:

skywake wrote:

MadLz wrote:

If you look at the Wii U games' sales, most of them are Nintendo's remakes, sequels and "rehashes".

And the other guys are any different? In that list I made above only Titanfall is a new IP and that's basically the only new IP the XBOne has at this point. For entirely new IPs that have sold decently the XBOne has Titanfall, PS4 has Knack and Wii U has Nintendo Land, Lego City, Zombi U and Disney Infinity....

As someone else pointed out earlier, yes. XB and PS games like CoD and Assassin's Creed have been rehashed/sequeled for a few years. Mario and Zelda have been rehashed for 25+ years now.

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MAN1AC

227. Posted:

Dave24 wrote:

skywake wrote:

Wii U:
Nintendo Land
New SMB U
Super Mario 3D World
DKC:TF
The Wonderful 101
Pikmin 3
Wind Waker HD
Rayman Legends
Zombi U
Lego City Undercover
Sonic Lost World

Fixed that for you.

People mostly complain about Nintendo and their release schelude, dreamcast or whatever, because that's what is hip and top story about Nintendo on the media. It wasn't pointed out with Wii because it was hyped console and the best thing you could get back then. Now with so many negativity towards Nintendo, people are seeking for something that really isn't there and actually was always like that or is little better now.

Actually, the Wii had a bright future. A lot of devs wanted to experiment with motion controls and put games on the platform. It started out slow, like all consoles do, but things picked up. This isn't the case with the Wii U. 3rd party support was an afterthought after just 6 months and Nintendo is struggling to support it.

You all can attempt to spin this if you want to but there is a BIG difference between the position of the Wii U and Wii after a year and a half of being on shelves.

Edited on by MAN1AC

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skywake

228. Posted:

Dave24 wrote:

skywake wrote:

Wii U:
Nintendo Land
New SMB U
Super Mario 3D World
DKC:TF
The Wonderful 101
Pikmin 3
Wind Waker HD
Rayman Legends
Zombi U
Lego City Undercover
Sonic Lost World

Fixed that for you.

I'm not sure you did. As soon as you go that far down the list I could happily add the nice port of RE4 on the Wii. Could even be more savage and point out that if you go to the end of April the Wii also had Kart AND Smash. Just. Comparatively the Wii U will be on the verge of but won't yet have Kart by the end of April.

Dreamz wrote:

As someone else pointed out earlier, yes. XB and PS games like CoD and Assassin's Creed have been rehashed/sequeled for a few years. Mario and Zelda have been rehashed for 25+ years now.

The length of time isn't really a factor as long as it remains fresh and isn't oversaturated. Take Zelda for example, we're upto game #15 now right? A couple of ports in the mean time (4?) but about 15 games with one or two per console across both portable and handheld over 25 years.

There have been 10 CoD games over 10 years and about as many spin-offs. So really about the same amount of games over less than half the period of time. None of them really mizing things up as much as the average Zelda games. Not even in the same league.

Edited on by skywake

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skywake

229. Posted:

MAN1AC wrote:

You all can attempt to spin this if you want to but there is a BIG difference between the position of the Wii U and Wii after a year and a half of being on shelves.

I don't disagree, but that's not what I was trying to dispute. The comment I was trying to refute was this one:

gage_wolf wrote:

Compare the Wii U, in its current state, to the Wii, when it was a year in, as that's a fairer comparison, and tell me the Wii U doesn't seem underwhelming and less creative.

A year in the Wii U's library looks better than the Wii's did. The Wii U has its problems but lack of interesting software clearly isn't one of those things.

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SCAR392

230. Posted:

I liked RedSteel more, TBH. The sword controls weren't perfect, but they were manageable, and the FPS controls were pretty good. ZombiU could have been so much better, but it's still decent... I agree, though. Wii U has way more games, than Wii did, that people should like.

Edited on by SCAR392

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MAB

231. Posted:

Untitled

MAB

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FOREST_RANGER

232. Posted:

MAN1AC wrote:

You all can attempt to spin this if you want to but there is a BIG difference between the position of the Wii U and Wii after a year and a half of being on shelves.

I don't know. Either way, it seems like they both get trouble with 3rd-party support.

@Topic
I've overheard a question about why Sony seems to be doing good while Nintendo needs to work harder...I drew a picture showing my theory about it:
Untitled
You can get a closer look here.

Here's what seems to be going on (the numbers point to the numbered triangles in the picture):
1. Fan base matters: Sony worked hard for a loyal fan base and maybe grew in because of it. Microsoft was pretty popular with so much games available for the 1st half of its lifetime, and its fan base was decent. Nintendo could hardly grow a fan base and put the gaming crowd off by its marketing, not to mention the lack of convenient services and much of 3rd party support. So the fan base was generally weak.
2. BOOM! We have new consoles arriving! Sony seemed to do great at hyping its console. In fact, that's likely one of the reasons why it sold well. And also, they played it safe by treating it as a "traditional" game console like the PS3/PS2 with more convenient services. And...again, fan base; another big reason why it sold so well. Microsoft maybe could've done well, but publicized the restrictions the console would receive along with a high asking price and Kinect. Luckily, the fan base and the reversal of the restrictions saved the console. Nintendo seemed to do good in hyping its product, but they had a weak (and loyal) fan base. It didn't help that while the company was also trying to appeal to the general crowd, they made the brand too similar to the Wii in so many wrong ways. And now people are claiming that Nintendo "didn't live up to its promises." I think I'll live with that.
3. How does the typical consumer feel about their investment? Sony basically gave people confidence in their investment. They have support from 3rd parties, have a steady release of games in the future, made the consumer's life convenient, and...gives away free games with PS Plus. The Xbox One seems to have a good stream of 3rd party support and game releases in the future. Nintendo has mainly their own titles and maybe a couple of 3rd party titles in announcement to far.
4. Whether or not you disagree with the general consumer's opinion, a console platform should be able to thrive with a balanced market audience and solid 3rd party support . But those circumstances will usually happen when a console sells a lot. In the end, Nintendo is struggling to get the same 3rd party support as Microsoft and Sony. In some ways, it might lead to another cycle of consumers being reluctant to comfortably adopt the next Nintendo platform. But I'm fairly confident Nintendo will have to do something to bring themselves into a better condition.

Hope this all makes sense for y'all :P

Edited on by FOREST_RANGER

Formely known as bobbiKat

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gage_wolf

233. Posted:

skywake wrote:

gage_wolf wrote:

Bringing up CoD up in this forum has basically become the easy scapegoat to divert criticism away from Nintendo, and instantly makes any further discussion pointless. CoD is basically a competitive sport.

And games like Smash Bros, Kart and Pokemon are not? Games like Starcraft are at the heart of the definition of eSports and those games have never taken it to the CoD extreme. If people want to accuse Nintendo of being uncreative and derivative with their content they need a better explanation than that.

My rant about CoD has nothing to do with proving Nintendo is uncreative? Plus I never said they are uncreative, I just don't think they are really pushing anything forward as of now. For the most part we're getting sequels to games that aren't as amazing as the first go 'round, and to top it off they don't even use the game pad's second screen.

skywake wrote:

gage_wolf wrote:

Compare the Wii U, in its current state, to the Wii, when it was a year in, as that's a fairer comparison, and tell me the Wii U doesn't seem underwhelming and less creative.

Indeed. However you must also remember that the Wii got a lot of crap in its first year along the same lines. I got a Wii at launch and basically had nothing to play between Twilight Princess/Wii Sports at launch and the delayed release Super Paper Mario in Aus in August. That said, lets compare anyways

Wii:
Zack & Wiki
Super Mario Galaxy
Wii Sports
Zelda: Twilight Princess
Metroid Prime 3
Super Paper Mario
Mario Strikers Charged
Red Steel

Wii U:
Nintendo Land
New SMB U
Super Mario 3D World
DKC:TF
The Wonderful 101
Pikmin 3
Wind Waker HD
Rayman Legends
Zombi U

I don't know, to me it seems like other than Galaxy and Wii Sports which were admittedly massive the Wii U's notable game's list looks pretty damn good. Is Zack and Wiki better than Rayman Legends? Does Twilight Princess really beat Wind Waker HD? I know Red Steel doesn't come close to ZombiU. I don't think you have that much of an argument here.

You're leaving out all the VC stuff, which played a huge role with the Wii and is pretty much a joke currently on the U. We were seeing titles from multiple systems trickle in like crazy. and we already had a plethora of NES, SNES, Genesis, TurboGrafx, N64 titles, etc. We're getting like 10 GBA games this month on the Wii U, and that's major news.

For a while I felt like after the Wii, the Wii U felt like a step sideways instead of forward. At this point it feels like a step backward. We're looking at the same tiny list of like 5 games everyone has been excited about since the thing launched. Now people are already saying "Wait until E3, you'll see!" Which is exactly what everyone was saying last year as well, and we all remember how that went.

EDIT: I will say looking at the list of Wii titles on your list vs the Wii U titles... A lot more variety and much more interesting utilization of new control schemes with the Wii. I remember playing most of the those games for the first time and going "whoa, this is awesome" due to the motion controls. Other than Nintendoland, I can't say I've really felt that way with any other Wii U title.

Edited on by gage_wolf

gage_wolf

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SCAR392

234. Posted:

It's also worth noting that Xbox One hasn't surpassed Wii U in sales, but still continues to get 3rd party support.

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SCAR392

235. Posted:

@gage_wolf
I think it depends on how patient people are. Smash Bros., Mario Kart, and X are supposed to come out this year. Considering this is about the same time frame Wii had for MK, as well, it's not really that big of a deal for people who want that game, and Smash Bros. is coming out one year sooner based on how Wii's software library came along. Then we have a few other games that make Wii U's library look alot more appealling than Wii's ever did.

That's why I got to agree with @skywake . Whoever seriously thinks Wii's library was and will be better than Wii U's, by the end of the year, didn't even know what they were saying when they said that.

EDIT: Also, VC isn't nearly as big of a deal as getting new content. If you cared about VC, in the first place, you're most likely just updating the Wii VC for $1.50.

Edited on by SCAR392

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skywake

236. Posted:

@gage_wolf
I'm not going to bother trying to quote the right bits given how badly you messed up the quotes. Anyways, this thread was going down the tired old rant about how Nintendo just rehash old games and never do anything interesting. People rightly pointed to the whole of the rest of the industry who do the same. Then rightly pointed to the fact that the Wii U's software is much less derivative than the library on the PS4/XBOne.

To which you complained and said that we should instead compare the Wii U's library to the Wii's library over the same length of time. Apparently you have a very short memory because the Wii U's library stacks up pretty well. You're now trying to say that I'm being unfair to the Wii by ignoring the better VC service. I thought this was about new and creative content?

Plus if you want to bring up the VC I'll point to the indie content on the Wii U which has been going since launch. The Wii didn't get WiiWare until after the first year. Are Lost Winds, Megaman 9, Bit Trip Beat and World of Goo more creative than Child of Light, Shovel Knight, Little Inferno and Bit Trip Runner 2? You're building my case for me.

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2Sang

237. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

It's also worth noting that Xbox One hasn't surpassed Wii U in sales, but still continues to get 3rd party support.

But will you be able to say this in 6 months? Probably not. As much as I hate the lack of originality of the Xbone and microsoft's video games in general, I know it's inevitable that Xbone will outsell the wii u soon.

Please undastanding since 2012.

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SCAR392

238. Posted:

2Sang wrote:

SCAR392 wrote:

It's also worth noting that Xbox One hasn't surpassed Wii U in sales, but still continues to get 3rd party support.

But will you be able to say this in 6 months? Probably not. As much as I hate the lack of originality of the Xbone and microsoft's video games in general, I know it's inevitable that Xbone will outsell the wii u soon.

Does it really matter whether I'll be able to say this in 6 months? If the Wii U's problem is sales, I'm going to look at the current Xbox One state, along with prior to the Xbox One and PS4 launches(zero sales) to know 100% that Wii U sales aren't really an issue.

When a console launches by itself, dedicating resources to 1 console can be hard. When 3 consoles are available, that's 3 consoles to sell on. Even the PS2 had Dreamcast to fall back on, in it's first year, and that's relevant, because as I said, it's alot less risky to develop for multiple consoles, simultaneously.

Edited on by SCAR392

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Dreamz

239. Posted:

gage_wolf wrote:

You're leaving out all the VC stuff, which played a huge role with the Wii and is pretty much a joke currently on the U. We were seeing titles from multiple systems trickle in like crazy. and we already had a plethora of NES, SNES, Genesis, TurboGrafx, N64 titles, etc. We're getting like 10 GBA games this month on the Wii U, and that's major news.

For a while I felt like after the Wii, the Wii U felt like a step sideways instead of forward. At this point it feels like a step backward. We're looking at the same tiny list of like 5 games everyone has been excited about since the thing launched. Now people are already saying "Wait until E3, you'll see!" Which is exactly what everyone was saying last year as well, and we all remember how that went.

I have a pretty decent VC collection myself, but VC titles don't really count in terms of what are considered titles for a console. If you want to use that metric, my PC can play every game ever made. VC titles are a nice to have, but they're in no way a replacement for actual, Wii U titles, especially those that go to physical retail. Being able to go to your local gamestore and browse a section for your system is important, and right now the the Wii U seems to have been relegated to the shady corner that movie stores used to use for adult films.

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skywake

240. Posted:

2Sang wrote:

SCAR392 wrote:

It's also worth noting that Xbox One hasn't surpassed Wii U in sales, but still continues to get 3rd party support.

But will you be able to say this in 6 months? Probably not. As much as I hate the lack of originality of the Xbone and microsoft's video games in general, I know it's inevitable that Xbone will outsell the wii u soon.

I think that's maybe a bit of a stretch. If the Wii U does as bad as it did last year over the same period it'll be at 7mill and if the XBOne continues at the ~60% more than the Wii U launch rate it'll hit about 5.6mill. But then there's no way that the Wii U is going to go as bad as it did last year given the list of games it's getting this year. Then ontop of that the XBOne does have Titanfall already plus big hitters on the way like Halo.

I'd argue it could go either way. Into next year? If I was going to put money on it I'd say by then Wii U is in third.

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