Topic: The answer to Nintendo's Gamepad Dilemma

I'm sure this is correct. But this is a very specific audience. People who actively contribute to gaming websites - either through articles, blogs, forums, etc... are mainly concerned with having a wide variety of quality games. The casual consumer though is less knowledgeable about this though. This is the demographic that the Wii had so much success with.

If you asked the average casual-gamer (that owned a Wii), why they didn't buy the Wii U, their response is not going to sound like "Well, I'm disappointed with the third party support to-date and I'm wary of the first party software drought between DKTF and MK8, especially since big titles like X and Bayonetta 2 didn't even get release dates during the latest Nintendo Direct"

Their response is likely going to be "I don't play a whole lot of games, so it's just not worth spending $300 on". These casual gamers will only purchase a console if it's priced right. They're probably only going to purchase 5 or 6 retail games lifetime for the console anyway (and maybe a couple VC or indies). They don't need or care about having a 1000 game software library. They just don't want to miss out on the key 4 or 5 titles that everyone else will be playing, like MK8 or Smash. But at $300, they'll pass, at $200 its now almost an impulse buy.

They can change all they want but it will be a waste of time if they do not market the console properly.

Then what is really the point for Nintendo going after these type of consumers anyway? Sounds to me like you explained a barely profitable, hardly worth the effort, type of situation.

Because 30 million casual gamers spending $200 on a console and $300 on primarily first party games is another $15 billion in revenue. And even if the console is sold at break even, there's a lot of profit made on those few first party games.

Before a smaller GamePad needs to come games, advertisement, and such.

I'm fairly certain a PS2 Slim wouldn't have come around if the PS2 flopped. And there probably wouldn't be 8 different PSPs available either.

Online gaming is a thing Nintendo should consider more seriously too (SSB4 and MK8 just ain't enough)

I don't mind the idea of a GamePad revision but I'm not sure if it should be to cut costs or that it should be as extreme as this. NFC? Ok, I see the point of that now. IR? We're talking cents here. Speakers and mic? Small cost (more than IR but still trivial) for quite a big gain. Camera? It's not a high res camera, it's a cheap 300k webcam. All up we're talking retail maybe $10 for everything and then maybe $20 for the NFC. Then we must remember that Nintendo isn't buying these individually. So less again by some margin.

Then there's the screen thing and one little detail that has been ignored. Yes, it'd probably reduce the cost but not as much as you might expect. The fact is that while it would be a smaller screen it would also have to have a higher DPI. If you dropped it to the size of the 3DSXL top screen then you'd also have to increase the DPI. So you might end up with it being about the same price or maybe just a tad less. The saving would be in the reduced need for power... although I would suspect that they'd keep the battery the same size and make the higher battery life a selling point.

That said a "revised" Wii U with a lighter, smaller GamePad that had improved battery but maybe killed the NFC on the GamePad if that didn't hit the mark. Not necessarily cheaper but sold as a "GamePad lite" with the advantages being easier to hold for people with smaller hands and better battery. I wouldn't complain, I could see it maybe helping to move units. Maybe.

I don't really know the benefits of cutting the screen down smaller to save cost because Nintendo already chose a way outdated screen to put in it so I would imagine they are extremely cheap. But I could be wrong.

I wouldn't say it's "way outdated" because the tech in the screen itself is basically the same as it is in any LCD screen in any device. The reason its an easy screen is because it's a low DPI which makes it easy to make and it's fairly small which means that you're less likely to get a defect on the panel.

High DPI screens are expensive because it's harder to get right which means there's more chance of making errors. If there's an error you can't use it, you have to throw that bit out or the user sends it back complaining about the error. Large screens are hard because the larger the area the more likely it'll have an error in it. The GamePad screen is neither and the same is true of all of Nintendo's products.

Also why shrinking the screen wouldn't necessarily drop the price. Although that said I can't imagine a 4" 480p screen being that hard when phone manufacturers are putting 1080p displays on their phones. 480p at 4" is hardly cutting edge in terms of DPI.

If you look at it from the perspective of taking a Gamepad and chopping out these features, it might be difficult to determine the cost savings. But if you instead look at it as a pro controller + a touchscreen it makes more sense. You're right, that I don't know how much all of those components cost, but if you take the fact that a pro controller cost $50, I don't think its unreasonable to think that a smaller Gamepad Lite could be around $80 USD. That leaves $30 for the screen and the somewhat modified internals. I don't think a 4" 480p resistive touchscreen could possibly cost very much. My first Windows Mobile Phone had a screen with similar specs to this and that was 6 years ago. Resistive touch screens are a bargain bin item these days.

Nintendo just needs to get people buying hardware - even if it's at 0% profit or even a slight negative. Selling games is where they will make their money . Selling a 1st party title like MK8, will be almost pure profit for them. They've already sunk the development costs into it. Whether they sell 1mil copies or 30mil, those costs don't change. The only incremental costs to Nintendo is whatever it takes to print the disk and packaging and distribute it.

They're in a catch 22, where everyone says "Having the games will sell the system", but the problem is, without people buying the system, developers aren't making the games.

The Xbox One is being dominated by the PS4, with Sony's console starting to sell 2x-3x the totals of the XBox one. Once you factor in the Japanese launch this week, the Xbox is going to be in a really bad position. They had a strong first couple months due to the hardcore Xbox fans being early adopters.

They're going to have their own problems. I would be highly surprised if we didn't see a budget SKU for the Xbox later this year. Maybe that means ditching Kinect, maybe it just means ditching features on the console, but I think it's almost a guarantee at this point.

@Howard24U
I was just saying that it doesn't make sense killing most of the features in the GamePad even some of the less used ones like IR because they're so cheap. Of all of the non-screen features NFC is probably the most expensive but it hasn't been used at all. So I can see why people would want to remove THAT from it. The rest? Not so much. I don't see what value there is in removing these features.

However I'm not opposed to a GamePad revision entirely. If they made it interesting to a different sort of consumer while maintaining all of the major features then it could be something to get the market excited again. A smaller screen, for example, might be sold with longer battery life as a GamePad for more comfortable longer play sessions. That's how they would do it if they were to go down this path.

@Howard24U
I'm pretty sure Microsoft knows that Japan is gonna be a hard sell. I've read that all of Microsofts services are just too American. That's why all this sales talk is BS, because there's bigger situations to deal with for some if these companies than strictly sales.

I know that's somewhat off topic, but it's true. Also, none of these companies are gonna cut s***. Even Microsoft. The best they can probably do is figure out TV and get pizza apps that you can do via Kinect. Japan would most likely eat that up(no pun intended).

Also, Xbox One is selling ok. Like I said, sometimes there's other stuff to worry about. They won't sell anything if they don't don't make other stuff happen.

On topic... I'm not against a revision, but it has to make sense without getting rid of any features of the original. A Lite version could probably catch on pretty easily, but whether Nintendo is willing to do that, or if it's even worth it, is knowledge only Nintendo has. I'd probably buy one, then just keep my old one for the 2 GamePad stuff, but Nintendo hasn't even launched those yet, so it might be pretty unlikely if we're thinking about it this far in advanced.

The smaller GamePad with accessories is a great idea, but some game requiring the bigger Pad will be negatively affected by it (Wii U Chat, Nintendo Land, Wii Party U and NSMBU's Boost Modes are great examples) so bundling the GP Lite with the consile would only make it worse for a few games.......

@skywake I'm saying outdated because It's basically the same tech touch screen phones used when they came out.

Here I am!

The idea of a cheaper version of the gamepad is good. Generally these types of things happen in a consoles life to decrease production cost and possibly allow a price drop depending on demand.

The problem I see with the Wii U however is they had wildly inflated sales forecasts so they likely have a large inventory of the console and gamepad in it's current form. They need to sell these before they can even think about reducing the cost in the manner being proposed. Increasing inventory know is a needless risk even if you are making them cheaper than you originally did.

I remember reading something about the Gamecube that Nintendo didn't have to manufacture any consoles for a huge period of time because they built way more than they sold initially. I think it is probably the same with Wii U, perhaps even worse because cube sales were forecast off the N64 performance while Wii U was forecast based on the Wii's performance.

this is still going on?
@SMEXIZELDAMAN gave the answer already, PRAISE THE HELIX FOSSIL

Some thoughts on various comments in this thread:

I do think the Kinect is hurting Xbone in comparison to PS4 sales.

I think PS4 and Xbone sales are going to slow down soon because there are no games for these systems....if you think Wii U has a games problem these consoles currently have a garbage library in caparison. Both these consoles are still in the launch phase were the hardcore early adopters are driving sales.....PS4 strong sales will likely continue longer since they haven't met their initial demand yet. Xbone like the Wii U was readily available on store shelves soon after the initial launch demand. Don't get me wrong, eventually these sytems are likely to have way more support and more games than Wii U.

What about the idea of releasing a 3DS that can also double as a gamepad. It pretty much has everything already except the the circle pad pro and a way to use both sets of shoulder buttons comfortably and the streaming is just a modified Wi-Fi, it may just need a second dedicated Wii U streaming module. This could be cool if they actually release any software that supports 2 gamepads. Get a gamepad that also plays 3DS games for your second one. I guess this is the opposite of the idea in the original post....it's a more expensive gamepad with more features (but possibly still smaller).

Next month both systems will get one of their most anticipated games, and both have a steady stream of games up through June at least: http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/release-date/coming-so...
http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/release-date/coming-so...
(Though admittedly the PS4 looks a bit better in that regard, albeit with nicher games.)

Try again.

Side by side the Xbox One is incredibly underwhelming. Even the Wii U has better exclusives coming out until June