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Topic: Super Smash Bros. for Wii U Thread

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Xiao_Pai

8,181. Posted:

Pac-Man is Namco's mascot and icon (just like Mario, Mega Man, and Sonic), if any character is to get in, it'll be him.

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UGXwolf

8,182. Posted:

@19Robb92 @Mizore I seriously don't think there could be a more official-sounding answer that just comes up as useless. So what if he's the icon? So what if Bamco has been inserting him into things for years? At the end of the day, it all comes down to who, if anyone, Sakurai thinks should be in that spot, which then returns to the question: does Sakurai value a character with more popularity? Or one with more potential to be interesting? Or will he not settle for one or the other, require both, and refuse to give Bamco a rep at all?

I COME UPON THEE WITH RIGHTEOUS FURY FROM THAT OF THE SMASH FANDOM! ILLOGICAL STATEMENTS SHALT BE MET WITH ALL OF MINE RAGE... until I do something else. No sense in being grumpy.

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Morpheel

8,183. Posted:

You seem a little bit too much against Pacman. Like, you honestly care about it.

Sorry, but believe it or not, he is an important character for gaming, his company is developing the game and by now you should know that sakurai can literally make any character work in a smash bros game. If any Namco character has a chance of making it into the game, he is the prime choice.

It all depends on wether or not Namco wants to put him into the game and if Nintendo [not Sakurai] allows it. Current relevancy and interesting-ness are absolutely not important factors for this kinda thing.

Edited on by Morpheel

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UGXwolf

8,184. Posted:

Moorpheel wrote:

You seem a little bit too much against Pacman. Like, you honestly care about it.

Sorry, but believe it or not, he is an important character for gaming, his company is developing the game and by now you should know that samurai can literally make any character work in a smash bros game. If any Namco character has a chance of making it into the game, he is the prime choice.

It all depends on wether or not Namco wants to put him into the game and Nintendo allows it. Current relevancy and interesting-ness are absolutely not important factors for this kinda thing.

Because the more I think about it, the more I realize how much I really, really, REALLY don't want Pac-man to be playable. And don't you think you're forgetting something /or someone/ who can yea or nay the entire thing, if he so chooses. I think we all know that just because Bamco wants Pac in and even if Nintendo agrees to it, no one is going to force Sakurai to put him in.

And no, interesting-ness are entirely relevant to this question. This is evident in most arguments for characters and often in the reasons the devs give for why characters get removed or changed. Besides all that, lemme set a scenario up, here.

Pac-Man gets revealed at E3. There's applause, but everyone goes home and the total reaction seems to amount to a resounding "meh." Whereas say someone like Lloyd or Klonoa gets in. They look awesome, so even the people who don't know these characters get excited. There's an overall positive reaction. I just think it'd be smarter to use a character that almost anyone can agree looks great in the game, rather than someone who a lot of people have even managed to argue would be a Sonic clone (mind you, that's a terrible argument, because they base it entirely on rolling.).

In short, the more this conversation drags on, the more Pac-man feels like the cop-out choice, the more I start to think they'd be better off not even having a Bamco rep.

I COME UPON THEE WITH RIGHTEOUS FURY FROM THAT OF THE SMASH FANDOM! ILLOGICAL STATEMENTS SHALT BE MET WITH ALL OF MINE RAGE... until I do something else. No sense in being grumpy.

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19Robb92

8,185. Posted:

UGXwolf wrote:

So what if he's the icon? So what if Bamco has been inserting him into things for years? At the end of the day, it all comes down to who, if anyone, Sakurai thinks should be in that spot, which then returns to the question: does Sakurai value a character with more popularity? Or one with more potential to be interesting?

Well you could just look at previous 3rd party entries.

SEGA's biggest icon is Sonic. Sonic joined SSB.

Konami's biggest icon is Snake. Snake joined SBB. (he also joined because Konami wanted him to, and asked)

Capcom's biggest icon is MegaMan. MegaMan joined SSB.

There's a clear pattern. If Bamco want PacMan in & asks Sakurai, I'm sure he'll put him in.

Alos, I'm sure that if you did a survey of which character is more popular, PacMan would the highest among Bamco's characters. Just because more people know who it is.

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NintyMan

8,186. Posted:

Untitled
"Yoshi's Egg Throw now leaves a rainbow trail, and we've improved the pose Samus strikes when she fires the Paralyzer. Every staff member is working hard as we brush up whatever we can."

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Morpheel

8,187. Posted:

@wolf: See? The thing is that you are assuming that:

A) Sakurai has godly amounts of power in this project (when in reality even he has to listen to his superiors).

B) You opinion and reaction is general and 90% of Nintendo's public shares it.

I don't mean to insult you or something, but that's the feeling I get whenever I read you [talking about this subject]

We have had weirder, less relevant and almost forgotten characters join the game before. And they have worked.

Edited on by Morpheel

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MegaStoneSmash91

8,188. Posted:

The interesting-ness point is really a good thought. I knew who Little Mac was, but had no interest in the Punch Out games. Then his Smash trailer showed up and made me love his inclusion despite not caring about him beforehand. Here was a character who did nothing but punch, and Sakurai and the development team made him look awesome. I wanted to play as him, to learn his moveset, his style, his strengths. He looked entertaining to play and I immediately regarded him as a nice character choice. The same thing happened with Greninja. I had absolutely no idea this thing even existed, but I was impressed by the trailer and it's fast and Ninja-like moves. Greninja also looks like a fun and interesting character.

Honestly, I'm not sure how I feel about Pac-Man in Smash Bros. I wouldn't mind if he was playable or not. If Sakurai can think of a good way to implement him, then by all means.

And about the Pic of the Day, I like the rainbow trail, and I like the new pose. I also enjoy when Sakurai throws in one of those "We're working hard" lines, It's nice to hear, even though we know they're putting a lot of work into these games.

Edited on by MegaStoneSmash91

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UGXwolf

8,189. Posted:

Moorpheel wrote:

@wolf: See? The thing is that you are assuming that:

A) Sakurai has godly amounts of power in this project (when in reality even he has to listen to his superiors).

B) You opinion and reaction is general and 90% of Nintendo's public shares it.

I don't mean to insult you or something, but that's the feeling I get whenever I read you.

We've been told multiple times by Namco and by devs that have worked with and on Smash Bros. The roster is entirely Sakurai's deal. Nintendo CAN step in and tell him yes or no, but they probably won't.

As for reactions, I'm really not sure what you meant, but popularity does not ensure a good reaction. For Pac-man, the best reaction I could is some people being all for it and everyone else being entirely unsurprised saying that they expected or assumed he'd be in, anyways. On the flip side, not a single newcomer, thus far, has been entirely expected. Mega Man was the closest to it, and even then, from what I remember most of us didn't think Capcom would ever give Nintendo rights.

Besides all that, why do you think Sakurai specifically asked for a director from the Tales series? The answer is pretty obvious, I think. The fighting system is so incredibly similar to Smash Bros. You might even argue that Smash's fighting engine was inspired by that of Tales of Phantasia. I don't see anything in any of this that points to Pac-Man. And if I hadn't said it, enough, I really feel like Pac-man would just be an absolute waste of a slot. There's so much potential in Namco's roster. Why should it be wasted on the most predictable and uninteresting character in the entire company? If Namco and Sora prove me wrong, so be it. I'm sure they'll have done so with an absolutely amazing moveset, but I return to my previous statement: if Pac is going to be playable, they'd better come up with the absolute most impressive and unique move set that ever existed, or I'll still consider it a waste.

I COME UPON THEE WITH RIGHTEOUS FURY FROM THAT OF THE SMASH FANDOM! ILLOGICAL STATEMENTS SHALT BE MET WITH ALL OF MINE RAGE... until I do something else. No sense in being grumpy.

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Morpheel

8,190. Posted:

In that you are right:

If Pacman gets announced some will like it and others won't. But that's the same for every single character.

People have loved and hated every single newcomer announced for this game for a variety of reasons that don't need to make sense.

About the tales thing, I'm not sure which came first, but I know smash bros started as a generic fighter before Nintendo decided to tack on their popular characters and Sakurai really loves to reuse ideas from his old games in Smash Bros. [seriously, Brawl is basically Kirby Superstar 2 with Kirby Air ride menus glued on]

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Kaeobais

8,191. Posted:

Predictable or not, the reason Pac-Man should be in the game is because he's a HUGE part of gaming history. Smash Bros. is all about the all-stars, the gaming greats duking it out. That's why we were stoked for Sonic. That's why were stoked for Mega Man. I know myself, and many others, would be just as happy to see Pac-Man.

Plus, if a character is going to be included from Namco, the one that would make the absolute most sense is their mascot, no?

I think the problem is people confuse characters that make sense to be in Smash Bros. with characters they WANT to see in Smash Bros. Pac-Man makes the most sense. End of story. Yes, other characters might be more interesting or fun or surprising, but no other choice would make as much sense, and if someone other than Pac-Man represented Namco, lots of people would lament it.

Edited on by Kaeobais

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UGXwolf

8,192. Posted:

I return to a previous point: When's the last time you've ever heard anyone say "Oh, boy! I sure am excited for that new Pac-man game!" People will try to compare this to a lot of other characters, but Pac-man gets new games all the time, and I haven't heard of any having any hype attached since he was in the arcade. He's a timeless character and an icon of gaming in general, but that alone should never be enough. That's a terrible reason to just assume he's the only possibility.

Again, someone will likely try to use Sonic, but Sonic games are always preceded by hype, and he's really the only thing SEGA has going for them, right now. This isn't the case with Namco. Pac-man is easily among one of their least successful characters, these days. Soul Calibur, Tekken, and even the majority of the Tales series can probably wreck any concurrent Pac-Man game in sales. Pac-man is not enough of a draw in and of himself. I've never heard anyone talk up Tekken vs. Capcom just because Pac-man was in it. I've never heard someone go on and on about how great MK GP Arcade is because of Pac-Man's inclusion. I've never once heard someone say they wanted a game that has Pac-Man in it because of Pac-Man. Not once.

Yeah, he's expected, but for most people, it seems to come with a note of something bordering on disappointment. The only time I hear Pac-Man being a good idea is when people follow it with "he's such a big icon!" or "Mario vs. Sonic vs. Mega Man vs. Pac-Man!" I've never once heard anyone say "he'll probably have such an interesting move set!" or "I'm going to main Pac-Man, if he's in!" I've never heard an ounce of excitement at the possibility of Pac-Man joining for any reason other than his iconic status. I will never accept that as a good or even a passable reason for a character's inclusion. Not even if Sakurai, Namco, and Nintendo themselves all state that this is the best reason in the world and use it when announcing Pac-Man.

If you can't get over this fact, then this is where this line of conversation stops. If you can't see eye to eye with me, then our core values differ and we won't agree on anything.

I COME UPON THEE WITH RIGHTEOUS FURY FROM THAT OF THE SMASH FANDOM! ILLOGICAL STATEMENTS SHALT BE MET WITH ALL OF MINE RAGE... until I do something else. No sense in being grumpy.

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UGXwolf

8,193. Posted:

Well, on a less pointless note, let's talk music! We know the 3DS version will only have two songs per stage, so maybe that's a good place to start. Balloon Fight will likely have Balloon Trip classic, but will they use the second slot on a modern update (like the one in Nintendoland) or another retro track, and which one do you think fits best, if so?

I COME UPON THEE WITH RIGHTEOUS FURY FROM THAT OF THE SMASH FANDOM! ILLOGICAL STATEMENTS SHALT BE MET WITH ALL OF MINE RAGE... until I do something else. No sense in being grumpy.

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Jazzer94

8,194. Posted:

@UGXwolf I guess you missed Pac-man championship dx then plenty of people were hyped about it and it got great reviews helped by the fact that the game was excellent.

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Captain_Toad

8,195. Posted:

DestinyMan wrote:

Untitled
"Yoshi's Egg Throw now leaves a rainbow trail, and we've improved the pose Samus strikes when she fires the Paralyzer. Every staff member is working hard as we brush up whatever we can."

Heh, and it shows. I can't wait for this

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WebHead

8,196. Posted:

Anyone else feel that Mewtwo could end up being a secret character that isn't announced until after the game comes out or a player unlocks Mewtwo?

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SparkOfSpirit

8,197. Posted:

The weird thing about Pac-Man is that we keep being told relevancy doesn't matter so he should be in. Then they say he should be because he's an icon. Okay? One doesn't lead to the other here.

And one thing you might be forgetting is that this game is about NINTENDO's history of which Pac-Man is about as relevant as Snake. Sonic is relevant because of the console wars, Mega Man helped bring the NES to prominence, and Pac-Man had some games nobody played. Most people wanted Simon Belmont over Snake for the same reason people wanted Mega Man: he's relevant to NINTENDO's history and not general gaming. Also notice how Snake doesn't seem to be back and no one really cares?

If you want a general "icon of gaming" fighting game, I believe Sony made one not too long ago. Didn't turn out too good roster-wise, did it? Smash Bros. is about NINTENDO history of which Pac-Man has none. Sometimes I think people only argue for him because they want "icons" in the game, so why don't we add Big Daddy from BioShock, Cloud Strife from Final Fantasy VII, and Lara Croft from Tomb Raider? The answer is obvious.

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Morpheel

8,198. Posted:

You are overthinking it

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Shirma_Akayaku

8,199. Posted:

I know people tend to dislike DLC (even I do), though I wonder...
Would people like DLC only for the single player portions of the game? I could be quite interesting.
As for characters, NO. That would be stupid.
Stages are a maybe.
Extra multiplayer modes? Custom song creator? Stage creator?

I'm just wondering, if there were to be DLC for this game, what would it add on to? What do you guys think?

Edited on by Shirma_Akayaku

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SparkOfSpirit

8,200. Posted:

Moorpheel wrote:

You are overthinking it

Smash Bros. is not about Nintendo history? The trophies, stages, assist trophies, characters, and music seem to imply it is.

Edited on by SparkOfSpirit

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