Topic: Super Smash Bros. for Wii U - OT

Blast wrote:

... Another MARIO character joins... actually 2 because of ROSALINA AND BOWSER JR and then THE ICE CLIMBERS GO AWAY? No, no, no.... something is wrong. I like the roster. I really do. But when one franchise is getting more love than another then something is wrong!!!! I don't blame the people who are hoping for character DLC when guys like freaking Bowser Jr. gets in while other FAR MORE DESERVING characters (insert anybody from the classic Donkey Kong games) gets ignored and discarded!

Once again... I like the roster but some of these decisions just don't make any sense. Hence... I don't laugh at people who are hoping for character DLC in some form.

NintendoFan64 wrote:

Blast wrote:

... Another MARIO character joins... actually 2 because of ROSALINA AND BOWSER JR and then THE ICE CLIMBERS GO AWAY? No, no, no.... something is wrong. I like the roster. I really do. But when one franchise is getting more love than another then something is wrong!!!! I don't blame the people who are hoping for character DLC when guys like freaking Bowser Jr. gets in while other FAR MORE DESERVING characters (insert anybody from the classic Donkey Kong games) gets ignored and discarded!

Once again... I like the roster but some of these decisions just don't make any sense. Hence... I don't laugh at people who are hoping for character DLC in some form.

I'm gonna agree with you on that. I like Bowser Jr., though (it's 'cus of the clown car), but yeah, it has some problems. First of all, there's Dark Pit. Why the hell is he in!? From what I've heard, he is virtually identical to Pit, so he was most likely just inserted for the sake of being in. Second, Sakurai ignored series that honestly deserve a newcomer. Games like Donkey Kong, Zelda, Metroid, and Mother. Finally, and arguably what hurt the most, the characters we've lost. Mewtwo isn't returning, and we've lost Lucas, Wolf, Snake(though I could already tell he'd be cut from the get-go), and...sniff...the Ice Climbers (Why, God?). Like you, I love the roster, but it seriously could've used some more work...okay, I know I'm probably in the minority, but I LOVE the fact that Dr. Mario is back. There, I've said it.

Guitardude7 wrote:

@Blast @NintendoFan64 Here's something I took from Tumblr via user razorsaw. Please read it.

"Dark Pit didn’t steal a slot from anyone. That’s not how clone characters work.

We know from Sakurai’s own words after Melee came out that “clones” are added late in development because they take less work and are a way to increase the roster when there’s not enough time to add a completely new character.

So Dark Pit, and by extension Lucina and Dr. Mario, would not magically free up room for a character you wanted if they were gone. It would simply mean there was one less character to play as.

Furthermore, yes, his moveset is largely based on Pit’s, but it is not an exact duplicate. Ever since Falco, this has always been how clone characters work. You get what are superficially the same moves and the finer mechanics translate to make them operate differently on a technical level. Dark Pit is no different. More extreme variations like Wolf have always been the exception, never the rule.

"But," you say, "why couldn’t they have made him an alternate skin like Alph and the Koopalings?" Sure, they could have. But that takes us right back to "you’d just have one less playable character."

As for why Dark Pit got in over other potential clone characters and Sakurai’s supposed bias… whatever. The guy works so hard on these games and puts so god damned much into them. I think the man is allowed to indulge a bit in appreciation for the series he’s worked on."

So just enjoy the game. Kay? Kay.

Guitardude7 wrote:

@Blast @NintendoFan64 Here's something I took from Tumblr via user razorsaw. Please read it.

"Dark Pit didn’t steal a slot from anyone. That’s not how clone characters work.

We know from Sakurai’s own words after Melee came out that “clones” are added late in development because they take less work and are a way to increase the roster when there’s not enough time to add a completely new character.

So Dark Pit, and by extension Lucina and Dr. Mario, would not magically free up room for a character you wanted if they were gone. It would simply mean there was one less character to play as.

Furthermore, yes, his moveset is largely based on Pit’s, but it is not an exact duplicate. Ever since Falco, this has always been how clone characters work. You get what are superficially the same moves and the finer mechanics translate to make them operate differently on a technical level. Dark Pit is no different. More extreme variations like Wolf have always been the exception, never the rule.

"But," you say, "why couldn’t they have made him an alternate skin like Alph and the Koopalings?" Sure, they could have. But that takes us right back to "you’d just have one less playable character."

As for why Dark Pit got in over other potential clone characters and Sakurai’s supposed bias… whatever. The guy works so hard on these games and puts so god damned much into them. I think the man is allowed to indulge a bit in appreciation for the series he’s worked on."

So just enjoy the game. Kay? Kay.

Blast wrote:

Guitardude7 wrote:

@Blast @NintendoFan64 Here's something I took from Tumblr via user razorsaw. Please read it.

"Dark Pit didn’t steal a slot from anyone. That’s not how clone characters work.

We know from Sakurai’s own words after Melee came out that “clones” are added late in development because they take less work and are a way to increase the roster when there’s not enough time to add a completely new character.

So Dark Pit, and by extension Lucina and Dr. Mario, would not magically free up room for a character you wanted if they were gone. It would simply mean there was one less character to play as.

Furthermore, yes, his moveset is largely based on Pit’s, but it is not an exact duplicate. Ever since Falco, this has always been how clone characters work. You get what are superficially the same moves and the finer mechanics translate to make them operate differently on a technical level. Dark Pit is no different. More extreme variations like Wolf have always been the exception, never the rule.

"But," you say, "why couldn’t they have made him an alternate skin like Alph and the Koopalings?" Sure, they could have. But that takes us right back to "you’d just have one less playable character."

As for why Dark Pit got in over other potential clone characters and Sakurai’s supposed bias… whatever. The guy works so hard on these games and puts so god damned much into them. I think the man is allowed to indulge a bit in appreciation for the series he’s worked on."

So just enjoy the game. Kay? Kay.

Who the heck is this "razorsaw" guy? Is he a developer on the game? Why should I believe a word he says? And I SAID BEFORE... that I like the roster. I think its cool and exciting but some of the decisions just don't make any sense to me. There are franchises being neglected and Smash is supposed to be showcasing popular and less popular yet iconic Nintendo characters! Do you agree with that or not?

Guitardude7 wrote:

@Blast He's a user from Tumblr that took the info from Sakurai himself via past quotes. Sakurai doesn't have the development time to put in all of those characters. That's a fact and if you think otherwise, you're probably not aware of how a game is made. When Sakurai makes characters, not only does he have to program their movesets, but he also has to program their taunts, the fashion in the way they hold their items, victory poses, palette swaps, trophys, trophy descriptions and so much more. Do you honestly think three years of development time is enough to cover all that for each character? If Sakurai actually went through with removing clones and including more original characters, the game would be in development hell. NOT TO MENTION he made not one but TWO Smash Bros games simultaneously in a span of three years. I THINK you're being a little unreasonable here.

Blast wrote:

How am I being reasonable? Even the guy who runs the amazing ssb4dojo agrees that the roster has too many Mario characters and needs help. He even says the roster is awesome but there are still problems. He's a guy whose totally dedicated to Smash, by the way. I'm getting the game. I enjoyed the special 3DS demo and I can't wait to play it on Wii U. I have a right to think the roster has problems. I'm NOT just gonna say, "OHHH SAKURAI! THIS ROSTER IS SOOO GOOD! NEVER CHANGE IT!!!" No, no. I won't do it. The roster isn't bad. I just think it has problems.

Guitardude7 wrote:

Blast wrote:

Guitardude7 wrote:

@Blast He's a user from Tumblr that took the info from Sakurai himself via past quotes. Sakurai doesn't have the development time to put in all of those characters. That's a fact and if you think otherwise, you're probably not aware of how a game is made. When Sakurai makes characters, not only does he have to program their movesets, but he also has to program their taunts, the fashion in the way they hold their items, victory poses, palette swaps, trophys, trophy descriptions and so much more. Do you honestly think three years of development time is enough to cover all that for each character? If Sakurai actually went through with removing clones and including more original characters, the game would be in development hell. NOT TO MENTION he made not one but TWO Smash Bros games simultaneously in a span of three years. I THINK you're being a little unreasonable here.

How am I being reasonable? Even the guy who runs the amazing ssb4dojo agrees that the roster has too many Mario characters and needs help. He even says the roster is awesome but there are still problems. He's a guy whose totally dedicated to Smash, by the way. I'm getting the game. I enjoyed the special 3DS demo and I can't wait to play it on Wii U. I have a right to think the roster has problems. I'm NOT just gonna say, "OHHH SAKURAI! THIS ROSTER IS SOOO GOOD! NEVER CHANGE IT!!!" No, no. I won't do it. The roster isn't bad. I just think it has problems.

Sakurai doesn't put characters in the game based on "reps". He puts them in based on what unique gameplay they can bring to the game. I think the roster is perfectly fine given what Sakurai had to work with and the variety of gameplay elements given to us through these new unique characters is more than enough. I personally think this is the best roster the series has ever had.

WaLzgi wrote:

Blast wrote:

How am I being reasonable? Even the guy who runs the amazing ssb4dojo agrees that the roster has too many Mario characters and needs help. He even says the roster is awesome but there are still problems. He's a guy whose totally dedicated to Smash, by the way. I'm getting the game. I enjoyed the special 3DS demo and I can't wait to play it on Wii U. I have a right to think the roster has problems. I'm NOT just gonna say, "OHHH SAKURAI! THIS ROSTER IS SOOO GOOD! NEVER CHANGE IT!!!" No, no. I won't do it. The roster isn't bad. I just think it has problems.

So this one guy's opinion is supposed to trump ours just because he's "dedicated to Smash"? I paid a full $50 for my copy of Brawl, so my opinion is on the same level as his.

Blast wrote:

WaLzgi wrote:

Blast wrote:

How am I being reasonable? Even the guy who runs the amazing ssb4dojo agrees that the roster has too many Mario characters and needs help. He even says the roster is awesome but there are still problems. He's a guy whose totally dedicated to Smash, by the way. I'm getting the game. I enjoyed the special 3DS demo and I can't wait to play it on Wii U. I have a right to think the roster has problems. I'm NOT just gonna say, "OHHH SAKURAI! THIS ROSTER IS SOOO GOOD! NEVER CHANGE IT!!!" No, no. I won't do it. The roster isn't bad. I just think it has problems.

So this one guy's opinion is supposed to trump ours just because he's "dedicated to Smash"? I paid a full $50 for my copy of Brawl, so my opinion is on the same level as his.

Look at this guy's website that's totally dedicated to anything related to Smash. http://ssb4dojo.com/rumor He's not some kid who doesn't know what he's doing. Does his opinion trump yours? Not at all. I respect you guys opinions. I just lean to the guy who actually created an website dedicated to Smash.

Guitardude7 wrote:

@Blast He's a user from Tumblr that took the info from Sakurai himself via past quotes. Sakurai doesn't have the development time to put in all of those characters. That's a fact and if you think otherwise, you're probably not aware of how a game is made. When Sakurai makes characters, not only does he have to program their movesets, but he also has to program their taunts, the fashion in the way they hold their items, victory poses, palette swaps, trophys, trophy descriptions and so much more. Do you honestly think three years of development time is enough to cover all that for each character? If Sakurai actually went through with removing clones and including more original characters, the game would be in development hell. NOT TO MENTION he made not one but TWO Smash Bros games simultaneously in a span of three years. I THINK you're being a little unreasonable here.