Topic: Tokyo Mirage Sessions ♯FE - OT

That I can totally understand, and even agree with. That's why I called my statement a "nitpick" - I'm just tired of buzzwords being thrown around the room in order to make the issue seem bigger than it is. It's definitely an issue - a T rating's not really gonna do Ninty any favors, and they're only succeeding in displeasing a certain percentage of their potential fanbase for this particular game, especially since people have been noticing them making minor and even significant changes during localization more and more lately.

But I don't think people putting it in the same conversation as Book-Burnings and Blacklists are doing themselves any favors, either. And yes, that's what it comes down to when you're calling those changes "censorship." It's really not the same sort of issue, for the most part. Well, except maybe the word-bleeting, since that apparently does involve an outside party demanding such changes in the interest of "protecting" the citizens. In that case, yeah, it's censorship. Maybe the mildest and most useless form, since bleeting a swear word usually does the opposite of what's intended and makes the conversation seem even more offensive, while simultaneously making swearing itself oddly hilarious. Seriously, there's no easier way to get a bunch of tweens laughing than by bleeting certain parts of a conversation so their minds have to ad-lib while knowing full-well that the word is probably dirty and/or offensive. Really, considering the game is already rated for mature audiences, they'd be doing themselves a lot more favors by simply leaving those words alone.

@CanisWolfred It's definitely not in the same category as book burnings or government action against private speech, but when art is continually altered in certain ways in particular regions to reduce so-called "objectionable content," I think it is harmful to an extent, as it reinforces paternalistic social norms about what consumers should or should not be allowed to see and normalizes this censorship to the point where we are already seeing it become more severe on Nintendo's part.

As to the loadedness of the word "censorship," I don't think there is another more appropriate word for it. Calling extensive changes that almost all focus on adding clothes to women and taking out anything that could even possibly be construed as sexual in nature, even when it conflicts with the themes of the game, mere "localization changes" seems disingenuous to me. These changes aren't being made to bridge a cultural gap, but to hide certain types of content from Westerners because it's considered inappropriate for whatever reason.

Let's be real: if these changes were mere "localization changes," censorship advocates who approve of the changes wouldn't be constantly calling people who are upset by the changes "perverts," which seems to happen quite often in these discussions. They're calling people "perverts" because the changes were censorial in nature and they think that this "objectionable content" should be expunged from the product.

That depends how you define "party" of course.
Nintendo of America change a lot of stuff Nintendo of Japan create. Whether they're separate parties or not is purely a matter of defintion.
I personally define censorship as whenever it's someone who didn't create it that's changing it without the original creators expressed intent, in a way that isn't necessary.

@Ralizah - I guess that's a good point, especially since I recently read up on "self-censorship" after my earlier post. I guess I'll let it go, it's not even that big a deal and a fan-made work around is already being provided as far as this specific case goes. I still think that alone will be a bigger draw to Ninty's attention, but it's not like that work around would have gotten so much needed attention without all those censorship arguments going on in the Gaming space. All's well that ends well, as they say.

@DiscoGentleman Christ I'm only 28 but IKR made me feel really old because I couldnt decipher it.
Yeah, the games incredible.
It'll be a close battle between this and XCX honestly.
I think it's funny that my top 3 wii u games weren't developed by nintendo (the other two being Xenoblade X and Bayonetta 2)

Flawed and unsupported as the WiiU may be at times, this is one of those games that I think will outlive its vocal critics and be regarded as a fantastic, if overlooked, cult game.

@gcunit Sorry about that im pretty new here

but that also doesn't stop them from showing the uncensored versions in the game-play itself which in my opinion is abit worse with their use on jiggle physics for the breasts. plus the fact that they allow Pokemon characters through in showy bikini's as well and for the fact bayonetta 2 which is another wii u game she basically goes nude (to the point of seeing her butt and only the breasts and between legs aren't covered). so it just makes no sense in a case like this where it's no where near as sexualized and there is no where near as much skin shown.

i do think at least having the option to get a patch or dlc for the uncensored version would be better since ive seen that there are many more people upset about it then there are that aren't. i honestly would love to suggest this to nintendo but i don't really know how.

i just think if fans are resorting to hacking and modding the game to uncensor it then Nintendo obviously needs to start thinking about releasing optional patches or dlc for an uncensored version.

i know it is a small thing and i also know that they may not care much but their fans do and if they start ignoring their fans again Nintendo isn't going to stay afloat

@CanisWolfred I do take your point, though: all censorship is not equal, and Nintendo's self-censorship of its games isn't necessarily a hill worth dying on, so to speak. It lacks the social significance and gravitas that proper government censorship and book burnings have. Our freedoms more broadly aren't really threatened by Nintendo's behavior when localizing games. And I do agree that certain people get a bit... dramatic about it. It certainly upsets me, but it's not really worth getting hysterical about (and many pro-GG people often get very hysterical when the Nintendo censorship issue comes up).

@televisions Agreed. TMS will be a cult gem in later generations due to both its (probable) rarity, the probable rarity of Wii Us in a few years, and its quality as a JRPG.

@Ralizah

As to the loadedness of the word "censorship," I don't think there is another more appropriate word for it. Calling extensive changes that almost all focus on adding clothes to women and taking out anything that could even possibly be construed as sexual in nature, even when it conflicts with the themes of the game, mere "localization changes" seems disingenuous to me. These changes aren't being made to bridge a cultural gap, but to hide certain types of content from Westerners because it's considered inappropriate for whatever reason.

Calling it censorship is a disservice to the discussion and multiple layers involved in it.

Lets take this a step back in how one is viewing it, removing your "western lenses" if you will and thinking about how it is interpreted and for a moment consider intent in the product. If the product wasn't deemed inappropriate in its original market, is changing the product when moving it into a new market actually censoring the product, or keeping it in line by maintaining that non-inappropriateness?

Just as a general question regarding these changes which I think is an important one answered, are these costumes that we, as westerners, deem as sexy, seen as sexy in Japan? Or perhaps are they seen as cute?

@ZeroAssassin Tokyo Mirage Sessions is rated T... Bayonetta 2 is rated M. This is a reason why they made more edits to TMS while not making as many edits to Bayonetta. I don't think having TMS at a higher age rating would help as it would limit the audience. These may not matter to us, the consumer, but they are real things Nintendo has to consider. Could Nintendo bet on enough of a audience to play this game at a higher age rating (and yes, I do think it would get a higher age rating than Teen if these edits weren't made) probably not especially since Fire Emblem is a Teen rated game series.

Can anybody tell me if any of the dlc is worth picking up? Does it make the game easier or mostly just add to the experience?

...would adding to the experience not be a good thing here?

Not at all. Sorry if it sounded a bit confusing. I want added to the experience and not something to make the game easier.

@Spoony_Tech Tokyo Millennium and Atlus Collaboration are just costumes so that all depends on if you like how they look. Tokyo Millenium also has a little scene you can watch where it kind of goes through a fashion show scene with each character that has one and afterwards they have a short conversation with Itsuki. You can also view it any time.
By the way, one thing I've been wondering is if those that didn't get the special edition got the Atlus costume DLC. It was available to all who bought the Japanese version at first so I'm wondering if it's the same in other regions.

Hunter Quest DLC has the exp, weapon exp and savage mirages. First two can help you level up quickly and the last one can be for a challenge, but also has a bonus item (haven't gone through these ones yet).
I've played through normal, but didn't feel a need for any DLC, but they could be useful for some play records since some can be very difficult to get without.

@DefHalan Actually over here the game is rated M so there was really no need to censor the game, it has the same age rating as bayonetta which is why im upset over it. if i knew how to post screenshots id show you but because i can't here is a link to EB Games Australia's website to show the rating for the game

https://ebgames.com.au/wiiu-161263-Tokyo-Mirage-Sessions-FE-W...

@ZeroAssassin I am unfamiliar with Australia's rating system but I do know they have been very strict in the past. So I am not surprised Australia still has it rated M and edited. It may not even have been released in that region without those edits

Just to clarify, Australia's M rating is the approximate equivalent of the Teen rating for the ESRB. At worst, I think, the game would have got an MA15+ if they had left the content as is, not a significant difference in rating.

Edit: Ninja'd. @DefHalan, there are still two ratings above M (recommended age 15+), MA15+ (should only be sold to those 15 years or older, doesn't always happen )and the recent R rating (only to be sold to those over 18 years of age).

@shaneoh so how do you explain Bayonetta's M Rating here and not MA15+ yet it was uncensored by Nintendo EB Games themselves put their own rating on it for (i don't wanna get sued) purposes but it is still M at every other Australian store. so by your logic it should still be uncensored which just means Nintendo goofed for the Australian release ... i get America and other countries have different ratings but if it's going to be M here then they should not have censored it as much ... the ages i get but nothing else should have been censored upon release.

I think you're getting the wrong end of the stick with me, I'm not saying that it should get an MA15+ rating if it were unchanged, rather that it would be the very worst rating it could get, there's no way they'd rate it R. As for Bayonetta, well look at the rating for Boom Street on Wii:

A PG rating for having "Mild themes." Sesame Street has mild themes, so does Play School. I can understand that the concept of the game might be tad difficult (but not impossible) for a young child to understand, but it's not up to the classification board to rate the difficulty of the concepts in the game. It got an E from the ESRB. Frankly our classification board has no idea what it is doing, which is why I could see an unaltered TMS getting an MA15+ rating. Not for any logical reason, just because the system is stupid and the people are twits.

so is the story interesting and compelling in this game or is it straightforward and not a huge part of the experience?

Story is decent, but I really enjoy the dialouge sequences for the break in a long playing session and the humor.