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Topic: Should wii u have achievements/trophies

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Ryno

I'm not a trophy collector but I sometimes check out the list and give some things a try just for the funk of it like George Clinton. I don't mind if the Wii U will have them or not though, I think that Nintendo should implement them for those that who believe gaming is the reason for their entire existence.

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Wheels2050

Tasuki wrote:

Me personally I hate achievements. Really they are a cop out for companies to claim that their game is X hours long when really it isnt that long unless you do all the achievements.

As I mentioned earlier, I used to be firmly against the idea of achievements. Having grown up playing games without them, I viewed them as a cynical way to artificially prolong a game at little expense to the developer.

However, I've since seen some games that have implemented achievements very well. Team Fortress 2, for example, has lots of achievements that reward you for learning new strategies in the game. For example, some achievements reward you for using a combination of two particular weapons to finish off enemies. That's the sort of thing where someone, particularly a new player, might look at the achievements and think hey, I never thought of doing that! and give it a go next time around.

In that way, people are introduced to some more advanced strategies (beyond those that could conceivably be demonstrated in a tutorial) in a somewhat natural way - they don't have to try them out but, if they so desire, people can get some hints from the achievements and increase their skill set (and hopefully get more enjoyment from the game).

That's how I think achievements should be done.

Don't get me wrong - I know there are still far too many achievements that require some mundane, zero-skill action to be repeated a large number of times, and they're a waste of everybody's time.

When done right, though, I think achievements can be beneficial to the player's experience and that should be what developers aim for.

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Mercury9

Wheels2050 wrote:

When done right, though, I think achievements can be beneficial to the player's experience and that should be what developers aim for.

But surely to be beneficial they must serve an actual purpose! My gamerscore on my 360 was around 12,000 before I sold it. That's 12,000 points doing absolutely nothing besides helping fill up the screen. For me, Nintendo implementing any form of achievements MUST be fruitful. Possibly even rewarding players with coins and stars for Club Nintendo upon completing an achievement. They must have a reason to be included and have various content to unlock.

If they are not redeemable it will be a huge disappointment for me should Nintendo decide to include point based rewards because you may as well write numbers on your windows if they are there for mere decoration.

Don't you want more that an inane message pop up after hours of trying to achieve something? The possible idea of unlockable content is something I like. For example, say the Wii U has themes and profile options, your friend may have unlocked a Metroid Fusion theme for killing 100 metroids and you may have unlocked a Zelda TP Profile icon for beating a dungeon in a set time. That gives more incentive to achieve something than mere numbers ever will

Edited on by Mercury9

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The_Fox

Mercury9 wrote:

Wheels2050 wrote:

When done right, though, I think achievements can be beneficial to the player's experience and that should be what developers aim for.

But surely to be beneficial they must serve an actual purpose! .

No, not really.

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CanisWolfred

Mercury9 wrote:

Possibly even rewarding players with coins and stars for Club Nintendo upon completing an achievement.

That would be very costly, though. Also, unlocking in-game content via achievements would be even worse, because now you're restricting content to only the very best players, which is what achievements were meant to be for. While I wouldn't mind unlocking cheats or new cloths, anything beyond that would turn me off a game where the achievements are really hard, but if they were easy, then they would lose their reason for existing. And really, the achievements themselves are their own reward - the sense of satisfaction from completing something hard is all you really need.

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Mercury9

The_Fox wrote:

No, not really.

So you'd be happy techically achieving/unlocking nothing?

Ok so not necessarily "in game content" but options for Mii customisation or other related things, possible menu skins, colours, styles.

Edited on by Mercury9

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moomoo

I don't see why not. I'm indifferent.

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Mercury9

Mickeymac wrote:

Mercury9 wrote:

The_Fox wrote:

No, not really.

So you'd be happy techically achieving nothing?

...that's the definition of doing anything in a video game.

Then if Nintendo sell out and go the way of MS in regards to meaningless achievements, you'll be over the moon presumably?

Edited on by Mercury9

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New_3DaSh_XL

It should have achievements, but this shouldn't unlock content, it should just look good on your profile. Besides that, it's all unfair for less expirienced players or those who aren't good at a game. I want to be able to get everything in my game, but if I need a ton of achievements, and(let's say I'm not a very good gaming) then I'll never truly unlock the full game, an annoying concept.

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Wheels2050

Mercury9 wrote:

But surely to be beneficial they must serve an actual purpose!

Don't you want more that an inane message pop up after hours of trying to achieve something?

This is exactly what I was talking about above. I think there is a purpose to achievements if they are implemented such that they provide motivation to try out new, interesting, skillful things in the game. The purpose being to make you a better player and learn more about the game mechanics. Obtaining well-implemented achievements is a reward in itself.

Honestly, I couldn't give a flying fudge about anyone else's achievements. I don't think I've ever looked at the achievements anyone else has gotten (maybe that's partly because Steam doesn't award points like that). Achievements are for my own amusement, as far as I'm concerned, and I think the whole gamerscore e-peen waving is a bit pathetic.

As for unlocking things in game, I'm a bit on the fence. If some requirements are too over the top, it becomes frustrating more than anything, leading to the exact opposite of what developers are aiming for. Straddling the line of being challenging without being impossible is tough, and if there are perceived 'things' locked away behind those requirements some players may just give up on the game if they feel they're not going to experience everything the game has to offer.

Finally, you mentioned getting Club Nintendo stuff for achievements. It's going to be a cold day in hell when that happens. That becomes a completely different beast, even compared to in-game unlockables - just think of the implications of people cheating, hacking etc.

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Mercury9

I don't get the fuss over whether an achievement is too hard. It's not unfair because it's challenging! Do you think it's unfair because of possible content being tied to it? Some people buy games just for achievements that besides numbers, don't really reflect any real "skill" I'm against achievements. I think they are pointless but they don't really need to be. I'm just dreaming things Nintendo could do to justify including them and making them fun

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hYdeks

I agree and kinda disagree. Having achievements sometimes makes a game last longer with you trying to get the achievements, but on the other hand why we really need achievements? Just enjoy the game, dummy

If they do have achievements, they should call them "coins" like off of Super Mario Bros

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New_3DaSh_XL

@Mercury9 just imagine this... you buy a, idk, $50 video game. It's a pretty hard vdeo game, and after you complete the game, which takes a long time, you have a TON of achievements to get in order to unlock the bonus level(s). Except you can't get many of them, therefore you never unlock any of the bonus levels. Wouldn't that be annoying?

I have to agree somewhat though; Wii U being a "hardcore" console I think they could do this, somewhat. Not excessively, though.

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Mercury9

Another idea would be to have Mushroom, Banana, Fireflower and Starman (in a similar vein to PS3 trophys) tokens that may be used either in a trophy-esque fashion on a profile screen or again been redeemable for Wii U/Mii csutomisation. Collect awards/achievements that when completed, appear as virtual trophies ala 3DS and it's puzzle pieces.

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Wheels2050

Mercury9 wrote:

I don't get the fuss over whether an achievement is too hard. It's not unfair because it's challenging!

All I'm saying is that there is a difference between 'challenging' and 'effectively impossible'. There is a large range of skills out there, and achievements that some people think are easy might be really, really tough for other people - to the point of frustration and disillusionment. That's not a good thing in any case, and I'm just pointing out that it can be amplified if there is content that people can't access as a result.

Not to mention achievements that are bugged. NBA Jam for Wii had some achievements (and unlockables tied to them) that, as a result of bad programming, were literally impossible to get. I'm not even sure if save-game hacking could access one of them. Others required you to leave NBA Jam running until you scored 10,000 points. Now, I'm not pretending that one case of sloppy programming is THE reason why in-game content shouldn't be linked to achievements, but I sure as hell found it frustrating that I couldn't access all of NBA Jam. I imagine being unable to complete a particularly tough achievement would have a similar effect.

I'm just dreaming things Nintendo could do to justify including them and making them fun

I appreciate that, and it's not a pointless exercise. However, I think it has to be carefully thought through and implemented. I don't pretend to have the answer - I'm personally satisfied with achievements as they currently are, but I can understand other people wanting more.

Edited on by Wheels2050

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