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Topic: Should Link be a girl?

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randomlypikachu

341. Posted:

o-o ok im gona do my best to keep this short. (clearly ive failed)

1. i'll start by talking about my feelings on topics like these .... i hate topics like these .-. especialy when its being taken seriously cus to me when hear someone say "hey this character should be a diferent gender!" the reason always seems to be "because they can make this character a diferent gender if they want to!" and the answers that arent that end up being this "because this character is a strong male! so if we made him a girl the character would be a strong female!" ... no... no the character wouldnt. you dont just change a characters gender for the sake of just changing a characters gender, and you definantly dont change a characters gender cus you think its suddenly gona be empowering for females because the characters already been developed as a strong character.. .-. if any company ever wants to make a strong female character good for them, but rather than adding a bigger chest, slightly altered hair, and slightly altered eyes on a male characters body, maby ... just maby, they could make new character thats a strong female! -.-

2. .-. everyone else seems to be bringing up other games and there female characters as well so mine as well go through two that seem to be poping up a lot. with that said, lets talk about princess peach and more importantly her role in the mario games. ok shes a princess, and she gets captured by bowser, and she gets rescued .... princess peach everybody. .-. ok so yea calling peach a weak female character or a bad female character is .... admitedly kinda apropriate .-. and i really do think nintendo should make some sorta change to that problem, but at the same time i kinda see why it isnt changed yet. ok so as far as im concerned marios story is basicaly an excuse. an excuse to just go through 8 crazy worlds and get strange power ups and step on turtles. i meen when you think about it all stories are basicaly excuses for a character to do something .-. marios is just way more basic, and really why change your excuse if its works out so well. with games like zelda and metroid, there was some small factors that lead them up to start telling much bigger stories. mario .... nothing was really set up for him to have any big stories, so it kinda makes sense that peach doesnt evolve from the damsle in the distress role, because her role of needing to be saved is just kinda necasary for this excuse. ... i oculd forgive this really .-. if it wasnt for smash bros (and a few other games as well but due to limited time i just jumped on the one that made its biggest impact) ... to avoid keeping this from going on any longer since i still got one or two more things to add in this post i'll just leave it at this - .-. one of her attacks uses a frying pan and one of her stronger attacks is her buns .... nuff said.

3. samus.... why is she considered a bad female character by so many? and on that note why is she considered a strong female character by so many? .... seriously as far as im concerned theres only been 2 things that work towards these points .-. actualy one shouldnt really count so much these days cus it has the "product of its time" disease, so really only one reason that leans towards the bad female character. but even then that argument always seems to just break down to "she took orders!" ok heres my problem with that. she took orders in fusion .-. it wasnt a big deal then and i think the only reason its a big deal now is because its an actual guy and not a computer. so yea i dont think shes a bad female character ... but like i said earlier i dont think shes really a strong female character either. cus the one reason towards that is the one i said doesnt really count much these days which was her first game, and being revealed to be a woman at the end. it was kinda big back then for obvious but now that samus is more well known ... this scene doesnt exactly hold as important a point as it once did. so with that point being sorta shot down, the only other argument i hear for her being a strong female character is this "she has an arm cannon and she shots aliens!" .... do i need to explain why that doesnt work? and with that arm cannon thing said ... thats basicaly the character of samus, a girl with an arm cannon. this character couldve been made a man at the begining and most likely the only main changes would be the stuff involving adam, and maby some stuff with mother brain and ridley. heck it couldve just been a genderless robot .-. the story would still most likely just recieve major changes with the stuff involving adam and once again maby mother brain and ridley. know what ... anyone whos actualy decided to read all the way to this point, and your either like "samus is a strong female!" or "samus is a weak female!" explain something to me.... why... why do you feel the way you? if its pretty much anything i mentioned in my little discusion on samus though then dont even bother.

um ... ok i think thats about it, sorry if this comes out incredibly long and sorry for all the typos that im pretty sure will be in this cus they always seem to show up during my longer posts

Edited on by randomlypikachu

just a nintendo gamer on a nintendo related site (who wouldve seen that one coming?)
the random user name randomly became a Pikachu.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/797210197/cube-and-me - interesting kickstarter idea

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LordJumpMad

342. Posted:

Hey! I got a new idea, how about we agure about something else, this topic bores me.
Atless this thread isn't about Luigi in a dress.

For you, the day LordJumpMad graced your threads, was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday.
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Morphbug

343. Posted:

DonJumpMad wrote:

Hey! I got a new idea, how about we agure about something else, this topic bores me.
Atless this thread isn't about Luigi in a dress.

It was about Luigi in a dress some pages ago.

Oh look! A Morphloggery.
Oh! eShop Gurus.

3DS Friend Code: 0173-1330-0080 | Nintendo Network ID: Abgarok

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LordJumpMad

344. Posted:

Morphtroid wrote:

DonJumpMad wrote:

Hey! I got a new idea, how about we agure about something else, this topic bores me.
Atless this thread isn't about Luigi in a dress.

It was about Luigi in a dress some pages ago.

I haven't really been following this thread, didn't think it would be the type of thread that would get out of hand, but it did.

I admit that I am a bit jealous. So many mad users, and it wasn't done by me...I think now is time to retire to the old troll home., which I heard was pretty nice.
I hope everyone comes to vist, and play some u mad bingo u_u

For you, the day LordJumpMad graced your threads, was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday.
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ClockworkMario

345. Posted:

DonJumpMad wrote:

Morphtroid wrote:

DonJumpMad wrote:

Hey! I got a new idea, how about we agure about something else, this topic bores me.
Atless this thread isn't about Luigi in a dress.

It was about Luigi in a dress some pages ago.

I haven't really been following this thread, didn't think it would be the type of thread that would get out of hand, but it did.

I admit that I am a bit jealous. So many mad users, and it wasn't done by me...I think now is time to retire to the old troll home., which I heard was pretty nice.
I hope everyone comes to visit, and play some u mad bingo u_u

Yeah, this whole thread has turned to Waltz vs. The World debate and, since it's obviously not going to end anytime soon and it hasn't even got anything to do with the original topic, this thread might as well be locked IMO. Waltz sure knows how to piss off people.

Currently on the plate:
Mount and Blade: Warband – Napoleonic Wars
Chivalry
Super Mario 3D World – Finishing the last few levels.
Mario Kart 8

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Stereoman

346. Posted:

hell no

ye mostly what the randomuser said! agreed

Such experiments should be based on new original ip.
Or instead just go back reading silly ranma comics ...

Edited on by Stereoman

Stereoman

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Stereoman

347. Posted:

Aviator wrote:

WhiteKnight wrote:

How hard would it have been to copy Ripley's character from Aliens? Everything else about the series is a carbon copy.

Space pirates jumping out of peoples stomachs?

I would buy that in a heart beat.

best post so far good one @ aviator

Stereoman

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Neoproteus

348. Posted:

Stereoman wrote:

Aviator wrote:

WhiteKnight wrote:

How hard would it have been to copy Ripley's character from Aliens? Everything else about the series is a carbon copy.

Space pirates jumping out of peoples stomachs?

I would buy that in a heart beat.

best post so far good one @ aviator

I don't know about space pirates but it wouldn't be out of place for a Metroid, as long as Nintendo and ESRB can look past the gore...

Neoproteus

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Neoproteus

349. Posted:

randomusername wrote:

o-o ok im gona do my best to keep this short. (clearly ive failed)

1. i'll start by talking about my feelings on topics like these .... i hate topics like these .-. especialy when its being taken seriously cus to me when hear someone say "hey this character should be a diferent gender!" the reason always seems to be "because they can make this character a diferent gender if they want to!" and the answers that arent that end up being this "because this character is a strong male! so if we made him a girl the character would be a strong female!" ... no... no the character wouldnt. you dont just change a characters gender for the sake of just changing a characters gender, and you definantly dont change a characters gender cus you think its suddenly gona be empowering for females because the characters already been developed as a strong character.. .-. if any company ever wants to make a strong female character good for them, but rather than adding a bigger chest, slightly altered hair, and slightly altered eyes on a male characters body, maby ... just maby, they could make new character thats a strong female! -.-

2. .-. everyone else seems to be bringing up other games and there female characters as well so mine as well go through two that seem to be poping up a lot. with that said, lets talk about princess peach and more importantly her role in the mario games. ok shes a princess, and she gets captured by bowser, and she gets rescued .... princess peach everybody. .-. ok so yea calling peach a weak female character or a bad female character is .... admitedly kinda apropriate .-. and i really do think nintendo should make some sorta change to that problem, but at the same time i kinda see why it isnt changed yet. ok so as far as im concerned marios story is basicaly an excuse. an excuse to just go through 8 crazy worlds and get strange power ups and step on turtles. i meen when you think about it all stories are basicaly excuses for a character to do something .-. marios is just way more basic, and really why change your excuse if its works out so well. with games like zelda and metroid, there was some small factors that lead them up to start telling much bigger stories. mario .... nothing was really set up for him to have any big stories, so it kinda makes sense that peach doesnt evolve from the damsle in the distress role, because her role of needing to be saved is just kinda necasary for this excuse. ... i oculd forgive this really .-. if it wasnt for smash bros (and a few other games as well but due to limited time i just jumped on the one that made its biggest impact) ... to avoid keeping this from going on any longer since i still got one or two more things to add in this post i'll just leave it at this - .-. one of her attacks uses a frying pan and one of her stronger attacks is her buns .... nuff said.

3. samus.... why is she considered a bad female character by so many? and on that note why is she considered a strong female character by so many? .... seriously as far as im concerned theres only been 2 things that work towards these points .-. actualy one shouldnt really count so much these days cus it has the "product of its time" disease, so really only one reason that leans towards the bad female character. but even then that argument always seems to just break down to "she took orders!" ok heres my problem with that. she took orders in fusion .-. it wasnt a big deal then and i think the only reason its a big deal now is because its an actual guy and not a computer. so yea i dont think shes a bad female character ... but like i said earlier i dont think shes really a strong female character either. cus the one reason towards that is the one i said doesnt really count much these days which was her first game, and being revealed to be a woman at the end. it was kinda big back then for obvious but now that samus is more well known ... this scene doesnt exactly hold as important a point as it once did. so with that point being sorta shot down, the only other argument i hear for her being a strong female character is this "she has an arm cannon and she shots aliens!" .... do i need to explain why that doesnt work? and with that arm cannon thing said ... thats basicaly the character of samus, a girl with an arm cannon. this character couldve been made a man at the begining and most likely the only main changes would be the stuff involving adam, and maby some stuff with mother brain and ridley. heck it couldve just been a genderless robot .-. the story would still most likely just recieve major changes with the stuff involving adam and once again maby mother brain and ridley. know what ... anyone whos actualy decided to read all the way to this point, and your either like "samus is a strong female!" or "samus is a weak female!" explain something to me.... why... why do you feel the way you? if its pretty much anything i mentioned in my little discusion on samus though then dont even bother.

um ... ok i think thats about it, sorry if this comes out incredibly long and sorry for all the typos that im pretty sure will be in this cus they always seem to show up during my longer posts

WhiteKnight wrote:

KaiserGX wrote:

Going to sleep now though. Just wanted to throw some logs in the cabin.
Untitled

Just out of interest, which side are you actually on here?

Because the last to screenshots you've posted are perfect examples of the points I'm making - using a line or two of text to say "I'm the submissive woman type, but it's OK for me to be that way because the story says I need to," hardly positions Samus as a character with any real power or independent thought.

Contrast to Ripley from the Alien films. There was a woman who had powerful maternal instincts and other positive womanly traits, and yet she also disobeyed orders whenever it suited her to be the hero, was a leader rather than a follower, and demonstratively intelligent. It saddens me when people try and compare the two characters, because Ripley is a feminist icon, but Samus is anything but.

Okay, this picture sums up my opinion of why Samus was done wrong in Other M. She clearly stated in Fusion that she dislikes taking orders, and did so willinging in Other M despite the fact that she had left the Galactic Federation Army and had no professional obligation to do so. Also, the screen is cut off here, but the statement ends "this is the second time I've found myself having to do so." So, what? Did she not find herself having to take orders during her actual service in the Army? Cause she took orders in Other M and in Fusion she said it was only the second time she's ever had to take orders. Also, if I were to bring up another screenshot I could show that Adam's character was wrong as well, as in one game he was clearly against using biological weapons (metroids), and in the other he was all for it.

Neoproteus

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Void

350. Posted:

@Neoproteus Well, most of the GF is one big lie, so it wouldn't be surprising if he was lieing.

I used to travel the stars, then I discovered Earth, and these incredibly addicting things called 'Video Games.'
And they said you couldn't buy happiness!

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WingedSnagret

351. Posted:

DonJumpMad wrote:

Morphtroid wrote:

DonJumpMad wrote:

Hey! I got a new idea, how about we agure about something else, this topic bores me.
Atless this thread isn't about Luigi in a dress.

It was about Luigi in a dress some pages ago.

I haven't really been following this thread, didn't think it would be the type of thread that would get out of hand, but it did.

I admit that I am a bit jealous. So many mad users, and it wasn't done by me...I think now is time to retire to the old troll home., which I heard was pretty nice.
I hope everyone comes to vist, and play some u mad bingo u_u

Don't worry JumpMad, you're still our resident mad troll . :)

Biggest Pikmin fan on NL!

Avian fact of the week: The Moa, an extinct relative of ostrichs and emus that inhabited New Zealand, was the tallest bird that ever lived at 12 ft tall (3.6 m). It was also the only known bird to have no wing structure.

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GamecubeMan

352. Posted:

DonJumpMad wrote:

Hey! I got a new idea, how about we agure about something else, this topic bores me.
Atless this thread isn't about Luigi in a dress.

Million dollar idea, you should copyright that idea.

Gamecubeloggery
Forget the Nintendo seal of approval
I only see GC 4.0 happening if I become a English major. Yeah... not happening.

3DS Friend Code: 1934-1104-3407

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SMEXIZELDAMAN

353. Posted:

Neoproteus wrote:

randomusername wrote:

o-o ok im gona do my best to keep this short. (clearly ive failed)

1. i'll start by talking about my feelings on topics like these .... i hate topics like these .-. especialy when its being taken seriously cus to me when hear someone say "hey this character should be a diferent gender!" the reason always seems to be "because they can make this character a diferent gender if they want to!" and the answers that arent that end up being this "because this character is a strong male! so if we made him a girl the character would be a strong female!" ... no... no the character wouldnt. you dont just change a characters gender for the sake of just changing a characters gender, and you definantly dont change a characters gender cus you think its suddenly gona be empowering for females because the characters already been developed as a strong character.. .-. if any company ever wants to make a strong female character good for them, but rather than adding a bigger chest, slightly altered hair, and slightly altered eyes on a male characters body, maby ... just maby, they could make new character thats a strong female! -.-

2. .-. everyone else seems to be bringing up other games and there female characters as well so mine as well go through two that seem to be poping up a lot. with that said, lets talk about princess peach and more importantly her role in the mario games. ok shes a princess, and she gets captured by bowser, and she gets rescued .... princess peach everybody. .-. ok so yea calling peach a weak female character or a bad female character is .... admitedly kinda apropriate .-. and i really do think nintendo should make some sorta change to that problem, but at the same time i kinda see why it isnt changed yet. ok so as far as im concerned marios story is basicaly an excuse. an excuse to just go through 8 crazy worlds and get strange power ups and step on turtles. i meen when you think about it all stories are basicaly excuses for a character to do something .-. marios is just way more basic, and really why change your excuse if its works out so well. with games like zelda and metroid, there was some small factors that lead them up to start telling much bigger stories. mario .... nothing was really set up for him to have any big stories, so it kinda makes sense that peach doesnt evolve from the damsle in the distress role, because her role of needing to be saved is just kinda necasary for this excuse. ... i oculd forgive this really .-. if it wasnt for smash bros (and a few other games as well but due to limited time i just jumped on the one that made its biggest impact) ... to avoid keeping this from going on any longer since i still got one or two more things to add in this post i'll just leave it at this - .-. one of her attacks uses a frying pan and one of her stronger attacks is her buns .... nuff said.

3. samus.... why is she considered a bad female character by so many? and on that note why is she considered a strong female character by so many? .... seriously as far as im concerned theres only been 2 things that work towards these points .-. actualy one shouldnt really count so much these days cus it has the "product of its time" disease, so really only one reason that leans towards the bad female character. but even then that argument always seems to just break down to "she took orders!" ok heres my problem with that. she took orders in fusion .-. it wasnt a big deal then and i think the only reason its a big deal now is because its an actual guy and not a computer. so yea i dont think shes a bad female character ... but like i said earlier i dont think shes really a strong female character either. cus the one reason towards that is the one i said doesnt really count much these days which was her first game, and being revealed to be a woman at the end. it was kinda big back then for obvious but now that samus is more well known ... this scene doesnt exactly hold as important a point as it once did. so with that point being sorta shot down, the only other argument i hear for her being a strong female character is this "she has an arm cannon and she shots aliens!" .... do i need to explain why that doesnt work? and with that arm cannon thing said ... thats basicaly the character of samus, a girl with an arm cannon. this character couldve been made a man at the begining and most likely the only main changes would be the stuff involving adam, and maby some stuff with mother brain and ridley. heck it couldve just been a genderless robot .-. the story would still most likely just recieve major changes with the stuff involving adam and once again maby mother brain and ridley. know what ... anyone whos actualy decided to read all the way to this point, and your either like "samus is a strong female!" or "samus is a weak female!" explain something to me.... why... why do you feel the way you? if its pretty much anything i mentioned in my little discusion on samus though then dont even bother.

um ... ok i think thats about it, sorry if this comes out incredibly long and sorry for all the typos that im pretty sure will be in this cus they always seem to show up during my longer posts

WhiteKnight wrote:

KaiserGX wrote:

Going to sleep now though. Just wanted to throw some logs in the cabin.
Untitled

Just out of interest, which side are you actually on here?

Because the last to screenshots you've posted are perfect examples of the points I'm making - using a line or two of text to say "I'm the submissive woman type, but it's OK for me to be that way because the story says I need to," hardly positions Samus as a character with any real power or independent thought.

Contrast to Ripley from the Alien films. There was a woman who had powerful maternal instincts and other positive womanly traits, and yet she also disobeyed orders whenever it suited her to be the hero, was a leader rather than a follower, and demonstratively intelligent. It saddens me when people try and compare the two characters, because Ripley is a feminist icon, but Samus is anything but.

Okay, this picture sums up my opinion of why Samus was done wrong in Other M. She clearly stated in Fusion that she dislikes taking orders, and did so willinging in Other M despite the fact that she had left the Galactic Federation Army and had no professional obligation to do so. Also, the screen is cut off here, but the statement ends "this is the second time I've found myself having to do so." So, what? Did she not find herself having to take orders during her actual service in the Army? Cause she took orders in Other M and in Fusion she said it was only the second time she's ever had to take orders. Also, if I were to bring up another screenshot I could show that Adam's character was wrong as well, as in one game he was clearly against using biological weapons (metroids), and in the other he was all for it.

People change, desu~ ^__^ ♥

Lord Head Admin of SonyLife
♥♥♥Videogames are lame♥♥♥

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Neoproteus

354. Posted:

SMEXIZELDAMAN wrote:

People change, desu~ ^__^ ♥

There wasn't that much time in-between Other M and Fusion. They're literally right next to each other in the timeline...

Neoproteus

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KaiserGX

355. Posted:

Neoproteus wrote:

SMEXIZELDAMAN wrote:

People change, desu~ ^__^ ♥

There wasn't that much time in-between Other M and Fusion. They're literally right next to each other in the timeline...

That's Super Metroid and Other M. Fusion is actually a long ways later.

Kachou on!

3DS Friend Code: 4296-4029-9396 | Nintendo Network ID: KaiserGX

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DudeSean

356. Posted:

WhiteKnight wrote:

Because you seemed to think that when I say "Samus is a man" you think I'm being literal.

She's a male character. Having a couple of digital polygons in the chest and long hair doesn't magically make her a she. The characterisation is male. If the film industry has discovered ways to create strong female characters that are still recognisably female, I see no reason that the games industry can't do the same.

This discussion is going to all kinds of silly places, as is usual when you've got people without any learning in gender studies trying to argue the topic. It reminds me of the time that I had an argument with a dude that thought that a chainmail bikini on a female barbarian in a RPG is totally appropriate and feminist because the female is a "strong character."

How do you figuratively be a man? I don't see how she's masculine.

She's a female character. Nintendo never said she was a male. If anything, Nintendo was pointing out how stupid people are for assuming that Samus was a man. At least, that's how I thought of it back when I was a kid and beat Metroid.

There's no winning with you. If they make the female too much of a stereotypical female then you call it sexist. If they don't make her enough like a stereotypical female then you call that sexist. When it comes to movies, it's a lot easier to convey the characteristics of the character. When it comes to a video game, it depends more on your own perception. Whatever the game doesn't tell you, you fill in with your own thoughts. You want the games to be sexist, so they are. To people who don't want the game to be sexist, it's not.

It doesn't help your case when you resort to condescending to others to try to prove your point. Being condescending doesn't actually make you better than anyone else.

As far as attire for women, it's just a fact that sex sells. Every industry is guilty of it.

Edited on by DudeSean

DudeSean

Nintendo Network ID: DudeSean

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Chrono_Cross

357. Posted:

Aviator wrote:

thelastlemming wrote:

Basically what I'm saying is that it shouldn't matter who the avatar we are controlling is.

Then Nintendo should never have revealed her.

Samus could have stayed as a genderless character who kicks butt, but they revealed her a female and failed to do anything with it from there onwards.

What if that was the point? You don't see Master Chief or the gun in Call of Duty exploding from a surplus of manly emotions because just they're male.

Plus the demand of that from a 1987 perspective is unnecessary.

Just for you.
"I'm just a musical prostitute, my dear." - Freddie Mercury

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Morphbug

358. Posted:

Well, obvously, because it is stereotipically male to not have any emotions.

Oh look! A Morphloggery.
Oh! eShop Gurus.

3DS Friend Code: 0173-1330-0080 | Nintendo Network ID: Abgarok

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OptometristLime

359. Posted:

Really tempted to keep quoting that WoT from the top of this page.

TL and I DR.

Miyamoto on his desire to focus more on the (hard)core Nintendo fan.

[The casual] attitude is, ‘okay, I am the customer. You are supposed to entertain me.’ [...] and to me it’s kind of a pathetic thing.

You are what you eat from your head to your feet.

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Treverend

360. Posted:

Wow this topic is popular. I didn't read everything but I'll just add what I think. I could care less if Link was a girl because I don't really think it would change the fundamentals of the game. Link isn't really expressive, as in he doesn't talk. I don't think him being a her would change anything for the worse and if anything it might change the series up a little bit. It surely will not ruin Zelda though, lol.

Proud black Wii U owner. :)
Favorite game series: The Legend of Zelda

3DS Friend Code: 2449-4692-4399 | Nintendo Network ID: Treverend

Sorry, this topic has been locked.