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Topic: Should Link be a girl?

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theblackdragon

221. Posted:

thelastlemming wrote:

almost nothing in this thread has advanced a serious discussion about the issue.

hey, some of us tried, but when the majority doesn't want to be mature about it, there's not much that can be done. no online forum has a chance in hell of advancing a major IRL-affecting issue like this, but if one person's mind can be opened by something that's been said here about the topic, it's worth it for me to have spoken my mind IMO.

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OptometristLime

222. Posted:

Yes you're right, and I shouldn't have ruled out the possibility of some intelligent discussion. :)
FWIW my original comments were aimed at advancing the discussion - even better that you disagreed with them so we could have some debate!

Miyamoto on his desire to focus more on the (hard)core Nintendo fan.

[The casual] attitude is, ‘okay, I am the customer. You are supposed to entertain me.’ [...] and to me it’s kind of a pathetic thing.

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Neoproteus

223. Posted:

SMEXIZELDAMAN wrote:

There is no issue to be advanced, Link already is a girl.

I was about to bring this angle up, but since you did it first... please elaborate.

Neoproteus

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Aviator

224. Posted:

He is clearly joking...

some people on this site need an injection of humour

Edited on by Aviator

In a way exhausting
we're problem solving
Drink 'til she's attractive
We're PARTYNAUSEOUS
Talking 'bout diplomatic
I brought my plastic
Making that peace attractive
We're PARTYNAUSEOUS
PSN: naviator_9

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Gamesake

225. Posted:

WhiteKnight wrote:

Not every thing has to challenge some sort of deep social view, or gender roles in this case.

Why not?
Games are art.

No they're not. But if social commentary masquerading as fun is what you want, PETA has got you covered.
http://www.peta.org/interactive/games/default.aspx

...in my pants.

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Neoproteus

226. Posted:

Gamesake wrote:

WhiteKnight wrote:

Not every thing has to challenge some sort of deep social view, or gender roles in this case.

Why not?
Games are art.

No they're not. But if social commentary masquerading as fun is what you want, PETA has got you covered.
http://www.peta.org/interactive/games/default.aspx

So, if I splash paint on my wall and glue up random pieces of macaroni it's art, but if I spend months coding until I get a variable to act just the right way so a player will be surprised, scared, intrigued, that's not art?

Neoproteus

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DudeSean

227. Posted:

kyuubikid213 wrote:

We've been talking so much about "What if Link was a girl?" and "Should Link be a girl?," but we haven't exactly talked about WHY Link should be a girl.

So girls that play the game can get the same immersion that boys do. But I think rather than a straight-forward gender swap, there should be an option. I see no reason why Link's descendant has to be a male.

As for the games as art, thing, Miyamoto doesn't see them as art, either. Art is such a vague word, I personally don't feel I can say for sure whether games are or not.

Edited on by DudeSean

DudeSean

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Neoproteus

228. Posted:

DudeSean wrote:

kyuubikid213 wrote:

We've been talking so much about "What if Link was a girl?" and "Should Link be a girl?," but we haven't exactly talked about WHY Link should be a girl.

So girls that play the game can get the same immersion that boys do. But I think rather than a straight-forward gender swap, there should be an option. I see no reason why Link's descendant has to be a male.

As for the games as art, thing, Miyamoto doesn't see them as art, either. Art is such a vague word, I personally don't feel I can say for sure whether games are or not.

Anything that is made with the purpose of expressing creativity is art. The question is not whether games are art. The question is whether games are HIGH art... the Smithsonian disagrees with the whole 'games aren't art' thing by creating an exhibit for the history of video games, including Ocarina of Time.

Neoproteus

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theblackdragon

229. Posted:

@DudeSean: sorry to keep following the tangent, but the problem with the 'games as art' argument is that 'art' is entirely subjective, and there is nothing set in stone that controls what a given person can and/or will view as 'art'. There are those who will argue that games are indeed art, some that would view some games as art and others not, and still more who view games as just fun, with no artistic value whatsoever, and all are technically correct so far as the individual in question is concerned.

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[16:44] LztheBlehBird: James doesn't know the rules? For shame!!!
[16:44] Vintage: We have rules?
[16:44] Reala: don't expose the staff to sunlight, don't get them wet and don't feed them after midnight

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DudeSean

230. Posted:

@theblackdragon Yes. You're exactly right.

@Neoproteus See? That's your opinion of what art is, though. And I think the real question is, what does it matter if games are "art" or not?

DudeSean

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Happy_Mask

231. Posted:

...
Untitled
You guys had too have seen that one coming. :P

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WaLzgi

232. Posted:

Video games are art! They have box arts after all :)

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Happy_Mask

233. Posted:

Then what is Art Academy? Art-Ception? D:

[16:08] LordJumpMad Hides his gut with a griddle
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[16:08] LordJumpMad: Gotta look good my my next game u_u

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DudeSean

234. Posted:

Happy_Mask wrote:

Then what is Art Academy? Art-Ception? D:

DudeSean

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Neoproteus

235. Posted:

DudeSean wrote:

@theblackdragon Yes. You're exactly right.

@Neoproteus See? That's your opinion of what art is, though. And I think the real question is, what does it matter if games are "art" or not?

...No. That all sounds high minded by stating that art is subjective, but it has a definition. Quoted from google,
Art: The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination
And you ignored the obvious http://americanart.si.edu/exhibitions/archive/2012/games/
If games aren't art, they wouldn't be their own exhibit in the world's largest collection of ART MUSEUMS.

Neoproteus

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Aviator

236. Posted:

But still, what is art is subjective to the responder.
But there is already a thread for that http://www.nintendolife.com/forums/other_gaming/do_you_consid...

In a way exhausting
we're problem solving
Drink 'til she's attractive
We're PARTYNAUSEOUS
Talking 'bout diplomatic
I brought my plastic
Making that peace attractive
We're PARTYNAUSEOUS
PSN: naviator_9

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Happy_Mask

237. Posted:

@tbd I think Aviator is after your job! :D

[16:08] LordJumpMad Hides his gut with a griddle
[16:08] Reala: what ljm does for cash is ljm's business
[16:08] LordJumpMad: Gotta look good my my next game u_u

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WaLzgi

238. Posted:

Does this look like a girl to you? :P

Untitled

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DudeSean

239. Posted:

@Neoproteus High minded to be open minded? Anyone who defines art is expressing their opinion of what art is. In case you haven't noticed, people don't have a universal standard for what defines something as art. As far as the exhibition, it is their opinion that video games are art. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But opinions aren't the same as fact. Art is an abstract idea that people created. It is not something that can be put in a lab and tested.

Edited on by DudeSean

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Neoproteus

240. Posted:

DudeSean wrote:

@Neoproteus High minded to be open minded? Anyone who defines art is expressing their opinion of what art is. In case you haven't noticed, people don't have a universal standard for what defines something as art. As far as the exhibition, it is their opinion that video games are art. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But opinions aren't the same as fact. Art is an abstract idea that people created. It is not something that can be put in a lab and tested.

So you're saying art is subjective because it is a human construct. Just like currency, or language... except we have precise definitions for those and nobody questions them... I'm not being closed minded, I'm just being grounded in reality. That's how it is regardless of argumentum ad populum.

This really seems to have switched since the OP. I started out by stating that Link should be a girl, and now I'm being called closed minded. :)

Neoproteus

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