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Topic: Should Link be a girl?

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Happy_Mask

201. Posted:

@Morphtroid I like your new avatar. :3. And as for your statement:BLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEGGGGGHHH! (insert other vomiting sounds here)

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kyuubikid213

202. Posted:

We've been talking so much about "What if Link was a girl?" and "Should Link be a girl?," but we haven't exactly talked about WHY Link should be a girl.

What factors of the game would change if he was gender-swapped? Would we play the game differently? Would it matter with the already confusing Zelda timeline? Exactly how would Link being female affect how we play Zelda?

If it was a simple change of figure where Link is female and nothing else changes, I don't see why it would matter to anyone whether or not he did change genders. If it actually added something to the game, I could see that as being quite interesting.

And if she was a decendant of Link, I would like to see her father so I can at least know which part of the timeline we're on. I would think it was awesome to go just before Ocarina of Time so we can see how Link, a Hylian, ended up in Kokiri Forest.

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Jamouse

203. Posted:

Morphtroid wrote:

Just imagine the Ocarina of Time Great Fairies as males.

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Jamouse

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Neoproteus

204. Posted:

kyuubikid213 wrote:

We've been talking so much about "What if Link was a girl?" and "Should Link be a girl?," but we haven't exactly talked about WHY Link should be a girl.

What factors of the game would change if he was gender-swapped? Would we play the game differently? Would it matter with the already confusing Zelda timeline? Exactly how would Link being female affect how we play Zelda?

If it was a simple change of figure where Link is female and nothing else changes, I don't see why it would matter to anyone whether or not he did change genders. If it actually added something to the game, I could see that as being quite interesting.

And if she was a decendant of Link, I would like to see her father so I can at least know which part of the timeline we're on. I would think it was awesome to go just before Ocarina of Time so we can see how Link, a Hylian, ended up in Kokiri Forest.

Are you saying you'd want to play as Link's mom? That... would actually be kind of interesting.

As for what it would add to the game, if Nintendo was mature about it they could turn parts of the game into a genuine critique of gender roles in society. Imagine the Gorons, being a very masculine race, only allowing people who look like they are fighters into Death Mountain. In other words, you have to look manly to seem like you can defend yourself. Later on, you could have a couple Gorons comment on how a human female has never been inside the Goron City before. Or, how about when Zelda gets kidnapped in the first place, Link has to sign up for a task force to rescue her. Under normal circumstances they'd make a joke about how pathetic the knights of Hyrule are and move on, but having a female protagonist means that she might be barred from such 'unladylike' activities, having to cut her hair and cross-dress back into a male appearance just to pass inspection. You might even have a set of minigames where Link has to practice 'womanly manners' and it be quite difficult. On the other hand, when she finally does get around to Link's usual tasks of killing monsters and exploring dungeons, a little dirt makes it seem even more like a man's job, bringing attention to how messed up that gender role really is.

Of course, being the Japanese they may want to avoid a deep criticism of their own culture, but could still do a light one if it was planned correctly. The designer could use a stand-in model all through development and a couple of weeks before playtesting just switch Link's model to a female. Then, all of the dialogue around her is assuming she's a male, and there's not much time left to change a whole lot.

Long story short, this is a good way to make the Zelda story deeper, which is something I distinctly remember the designer saying he wanted.

Neoproteus

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Cyb3Rnite

205. Posted:

Yes.
While you're at it, rename him Zelda.

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skywake

206. Posted:

The reason for chasing after Zelda in Skyward Sword wasn't because she was a "damsel in distress" but because they'd established a relationship between Link and Zelda. If you took Skyward Sword pretty much as is and made Link a girl and Zelda a child I'm not sure how much more interesting the game would be. It'd pretty much play out the same way.

You could make Zelda a dude and Link a girl and try to do the same thing........ although... a story about a girl running through hell to go after the boy she's after?..... wouldn't that be even less pro-feminism than a boy running after a girl he's after and her not really needing help?

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Neoproteus

207. Posted:

skywake wrote:

The reason for chasing after Zelda in Skyward Sword wasn't because she was a "damsel in distress" but because they'd established a relationship between Link and Zelda. If you took Skyward Sword pretty much as is and made Link a girl and Zelda a child I'm not sure how much more interesting the game would be. It'd pretty much play out the same way.

You could make Zelda a dude and Link a girl and try to do the same thing........ although... a story about a girl running through hell to go after the boy she's after?..... wouldn't that be even less pro-feminism than a boy running after a girl he's after and her not really needing help?

You make an excellent point. It seems if a girl is depicted as being after anything romantic, she's judged poorly these days. When a guy does it though, it's normal because everyone expects great big serenades outside the window under full moon from men for some reason. It's kind of like if men sleep around, they're called studs, but if a woman does it she's automatically a slut...

This is why Zelda should stay a girl regardless. As long as they don't make them look like lesbians there won't be any implied romance between them and Linkette won't be judged poorly.

That said, they COULD address LGBT issues here, but if that's going to happen it needs to be a ton more subtle. Like, remember the girls that were fawning over Link outside the Clawshot arena in Twilight Princess? If Link were a girl, then those people would have to be men. If one of them happens to be a very butch woman, however, then at least Nintendo is acknowledging their existence. Anything further would be taking things too far because it would be out of the target audience. Then again, there was that fortune teller person in Skyward Sword... I really couldn't tell what gender s/he was...

Neoproteus

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Void

208. Posted:

Neoproteus wrote:

Then again, there was that fortune teller person in Skyward Sword... I really couldn't tell what gender s/he was...

I think it was a guy... Although you couldn't really tell... How about we call it an it, it doesn't look to be either to me, acutally...

Edited on by Void

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Neoproteus

209. Posted:

Void wrote:

Neoproteus wrote:

If one of them happens to be a very butch woman, however, then at least Nintendo is acknowledging their existence.

Uh... Have you ever heard of Metroid? Becuase....

Neoproteus wrote:

Then again, there was that fortune teller person in Skyward Sword... I really couldn't tell what gender s/he was...

I think it was a guy... Although you couldn't really tell... How about we call it an it, it doesn't look to be either to me, acutally...

Are you saying Samus is a Lesbian? Because I don't think there were actually any other women... I mean other than Mother Br- OMG bad image!

Also, edited the OP. I think it suits the topic better now...

Neoproteus

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Morpheel

210. Posted:

@Happy_Mask: Thanks :D

The fortune teller is most definitely a man.

Also, a better option I would love to see is Nintendo making a side story to Zelda with a woman as the hero.
I mean, she doesn't need to be related to Link or Zelda at all. After all, who says every single conflict in Hyrule must be related to these two?

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Void

211. Posted:

Neoproteus wrote:

Void wrote:

Neoproteus wrote:

If one of them happens to be a very butch woman, however, then at least Nintendo is acknowledging their existence.

Uh... Have you ever heard of Metroid? Becuase....

Are you saying Samus is a Lesbian? Because I don't think there were actually any other women... I mean other than Mother Br- OMG bad image!

Oh, I thought you said buff oops.. :p
Untitled

Edited on by Void

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Happy_Mask

212. Posted:

Morphtroid wrote:

@Happy_Mask: Thanks :D

The fortune teller is most definitely a man.

Also, a better option I would love to see is Nintendo making a side story to Zelda with a woman as the hero.
I mean, she doesn't need to be related to Link or Zelda at all. After all, who says every single conflict in Hyrule must be related to these two?

While that's probably the only sensible thing said on this thread thus far (>:3), I can imagine the fanboys complaining about a lack of link. And possibly pervy fangirls.
But all we really need, is the legend of Groose. ;)

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Void

213. Posted:

Happy_Mask wrote:

But all we really need, is the legend of Groose. ;)

No..... Take this, you obviously need it.
Untitled

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Morpheel

214. Posted:

Edited on by Morpheel

Oops, no username pun.

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Happy_Mask

215. Posted:

Ok, now we need to put this in the hall of fame. :3

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Dashtag

216. Posted:

Agreed with @HM.

LOL

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OptometristLime

217. Posted:

MyBodyIsReady wrote:

No, Link should not be a girl.
Just because Link looks pretty in some gender swapping fan art pictures, doesn't mean he should.

HoF status for arguments like this maybe. It's a great point, just kind of staggering that it needed to be made.

Miyamoto on his desire to focus more on the (hard)core Nintendo fan.

[The casual] attitude is, ‘okay, I am the customer. You are supposed to entertain me.’ [...] and to me it’s kind of a pathetic thing.

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theblackdragon

218. Posted:

thelastlemming wrote:

MyBodyIsReady wrote:

No, Link should not be a girl.
Just because Link looks pretty in some gender swapping fan art pictures, doesn't mean he should.

HoF status for arguments like this maybe. It's a great point, just kind of staggering that it needed to be made.

I would say HoF status for arguments like that not because 'they needed to be said', but because they didn't. Putting forth the assumption that all of us in favor of the idea would want to see Link in female form for the sole reason of 'because he looks pretty'? Not cool. :/

Edited on by theblackdragon

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OptometristLime

219. Posted:

Well I certainly didn't take it that way, but then almost nothing in this thread has advanced a serious discussion about the issue. I would rather make light of the idiosyncrasies, if only because I don't think an online forum of this type has any chance of advancing the issue. Much less agree on anything.

Miyamoto on his desire to focus more on the (hard)core Nintendo fan.

[The casual] attitude is, ‘okay, I am the customer. You are supposed to entertain me.’ [...] and to me it’s kind of a pathetic thing.

You are what you eat from your head to your feet.

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SMEXIZELDAMAN

220. Posted:

There is no issue to be advanced, Link already is a girl.

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