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Topic: Should Link be a girl?

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DarkNinja9

141. Posted:

grr someone had summed up how i felt about this but i couldnt find the post to quote it -.- anyway i say no link being a girl would be the time i stop playing any zelda game <.< it just wouldnt be right at all but i mean think about it why would a change of gender even be needed that benefit would that make the game better in any way? i think instead of debating on what gender they should have in the game we should be wondering what more dungeon or items they can add to the game to make it even more better then they already are o.o

also if you really want a girl as link go back to majoras mask and use the great fairy mask bam instant girl link -.- better now?

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V8_Ninja

142. Posted:

A thread about gender-swapping a character turned into discussing whether or not Nintendo is sexist.

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Usagi-san

143. Posted:

WhiteKnight wrote:

Usagi-san wrote:

WhiteKnight wrote:

Usagi-san wrote:

WhiteKnight wrote:

Not every thing has to challenge some sort of deep social view, or gender roles in this case.

Why not? Zelda is an important franchise. The potential is there for a Zelda game to make a useful contribution to society, rather than give some random nerds a couple of hours of meaningless entertainment.

Games are art. It's time for games developers to start behaving like artists.

Art and Artists have no obligation to challenge anything.

As a collective philosophically they actually do.

There is no "collective philosophy" of art because every artist creates it for their own reasons.

You misread what I wrote completely. As a COLLECTIVE (as in a group of individuals) artists are directly responsible for the evolution of human culture. Whether they delibeately set out to do so or not. Shakespeare likely never set out to change people's attitudes towards theatre and literature. Yet that's exactly what he did. He just wanted to make popular plays.

As one of the dominant creative forces of one of the dominant art forms Nintendo has a great deal of artistic responsibility and influence.

See also: Michael Foucalt and Jeremy Basille. You know, actual social philosophers.

Regardless of whether I misread your post or not my point remains the same.
Artists are under no obligations to change the world or how people view it in order to
be considered behaving like artists.

You say video games are art and yet somehow in creating art the developers are not acting like artists.
But an artist simply makes art.

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Geonjaha

144. Posted:

Of couse we couldnt have a thread like this without people being overly sensitive about sexism (yes - sexism is a big issue, but when you get upset about someone saying they wouldnt want their favourite video game character changing gender then you've got problems)...

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V8_Ninja

145. Posted:

Oh my god! I just now noticed that this thread has turned into a big argument about art!

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Aviator

146. Posted:

Geonjaha wrote:

Of couse we couldnt have a thread like this without people being overly sensitive about sexism (yes - sexism is a big issue, but when you get upset about someone saying they wouldnt want their favourite video game character changing gender then you've got problems)...

Who is the one with problems? The ones who are being sensitive about sexism or the ones who don't want the character to change.
a honest question, not having a go

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voulg160

147. Posted:

WhiteKnight wrote:

Trainer_DJ wrote:

WhiteKnight wrote:

Not every thing has to challenge some sort of deep social view, or gender roles in this case.

Why not? Zelda is an important franchise. The potential is there for a Zelda game to make a useful contribution to society, rather than give some random nerds a couple of hours of meaningless entertainment.

Games are art. It's time for games developers to start behaving like artists.

I am sure there is an opportunity for many games to challenge conventional knowledge that is wrong. However, I don't feel Zelda is the right serious to do that. It is an extremely fantasy game that is not very serious in nature the first place. It is very much in the vain of the "traditional story". I still fail to see why making Link female is now so important all of a sudden. If they want to promote women as powerful, why don't they make another franchise, not mess with a franchise that is already established. Again, when you establish an iconic character or even characters in general, it is not the common practice to just start flipping sexes to make some vague point about gender roles in society. I love philosophy, I love challenging society's views. However, there is a time and place for everything and Zelda is certainly not the place. I think anyone who has seen my signature knows I am not afraid to express unpopular viewpoints, but you just don't randomly bring it in out of nowhere in an unfitting situation.

Being a fantasy is irrelevant. It can still be intelligent.

It's got nothing to do with "making women powerful." It has more to do with the fact that Zelda games, like Mario, are fundamentally sexists. Women exist to be saved. Men exist to do the saving.

That attitude reflects terribly on BOTH sexes.

Nintendo, if it was a halfway responsible company of halfway responsible artists, would take that sexism very seriously indeed. But they don't. They seem to think 80's attitudes towards gender are somehow still appropriate now.

White i think you over thinking the problem by a big margin Zelda is a story driven game with the main characters practically set in stone we know that there will always be a link to save princess Zelda and gannon [in the majority of games] to try and stop link from doing so. To change this would be a horrible financial step for Nintendo because a seen in this thread the majority of fans hate this. It worked in the Mario series with super princess peach because the Mario universe has little to no story what so ever except to beat bowser and save the princess and the characters positions can be easily rotated because of the lack of story line.

sure it would be a nice idea but honestly when was the last time someone sat down to with the sole purpose of play the game and though hey this is actually quite a sexist game It was probably never.

if you want to target a game for being sexist try duke nukem or dead or alive instead

Edited on by voulg160

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steamhare

148. Posted:

Aviator wrote:

Geonjaha wrote:

Of couse we couldnt have a thread like this without people being overly sensitive about sexism (yes - sexism is a big issue, but when you get upset about someone saying they wouldnt want their favourite video game character changing gender then you've got problems)...

Who is the one with problems? The ones who are being sensitive about sexism or the ones who don't want the character to change.
a honest question, not having a go

The ones who are sensitive about sexism, from the looks of it. Though it's more sensitive about transgender issues, really.

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Sonicmon

149. Posted:

no!

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ClockworkMario

150. Posted:

Everyone here seems to only talk about whether it would be "socially responsible" or could a female hero have the same qualities as a male one (which they of course can), but no one asks whether it would make sense according to the inner logic of the series.

HUGE MEGA SPOILERS FOR SKYWARD SWORD ENDING

Here's a quote from Demise after you beat him:
"Though this is not the end. My hate...never perishes. It is born anew in a cycle with no end! I will rise again! Those like you... Those who share the blood of the goddess and the spirit of the hero... They are eternally bound to this curse."

So the spirit of the Original Link (MALE) is incarnated as a male (they don't have to be related). Zelda on the other hand could be male or female, since the curse is bound to her bloodline.

SPOILERS END
So no, I don't think Link could be nor would a want a female Link.

Edited on by ClockworkMario

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WingedSnagret

151. Posted:

Very well, since this has seemingly turned into a sexism debate, I'll throw in my two cents. In my own opinion, the sexes are equal, simple as that. What I mean is both have strengths and weaknesses in certain areas. I won't go into details about that, but pretty much, that is all in boils down to. In other words, males aren't better then females and vice-versa, that's just the way it is. After all no matter what some people say, we need each other. :)

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ReindeerDasher

152. Posted:

You know, as for the original post, it is called the Legend of Zelda. As for most of the comments...
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19Robb92

153. Posted:

Nah, keep Link a guy. All the 'HYAA' and 'ARRGH' screams would just sound weird coming from a girl, and I want my HYAA's and AAARGH's in my Zelda games.

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ReindeerDasher

154. Posted:

The other thing is people playing the game for the first time would automatically think Link is and always was a girl.

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Aviator

155. Posted:

How?

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ReindeerDasher

156. Posted:

I dunno... don't ask me. It's just something people do.

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edhe

157. Posted:

The problem with these sexism debates is that on one side you've got people who somehow feel their masculinity would be threatened by playing a game with a strong female character in it and compensate by verbally abusing women on Xbox Live, and on the other side, you've got people who yell sexism at a drop of the hat, and imply that because they don't neccesarily agree, that the other person is a 50's misogynist who wants to manacle women to the stove.

Yes, you don't have to say any combination of the words kitchen, woman and sammich to be branded a sexist pig, it seems.

This is why I hate this particular debate.

Edited on by edhe

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edhe

158. Posted:

As it happens, despite my earlier comment (which really should have been "Zelda" - that would have been more apt), I'd be on board for this idea. Of Link being a girl. If Princess Zelda was to take the helm so to speak, it might turn out like Super Princess Peach - a kind of side story that doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

Edited on by edhe

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shingi_70

159. Posted:

Probably not. Ignoring the fact that their is a timeline isn't the beauty of zelda that its supposed to be a legend.

Would love a shiek game though.

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The_Fox

160. Posted:

Oh, so this thread is supposed to be super serious business now? Could have fooled me.

Anyway, although I actually think it would be a good idea I somehow doubt Nintendo will make Link female anytime soon. Even if they did I've got a feeling that the game would end up with female Link needing to find a big strong man to deus ex machina her out of the final confrontation. Mostly because of the fact that as bad as sexism is in western video games (and don't get me wrong: it's pretty bad) it tends to take a particularly nasty turn with Japanese games.

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