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Topic: Rayman Legends delayed

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Bankai

181. Posted:

TysonOfTime wrote:

Zolgar wrote:

Sean_Aaron wrote:

Why not a compromise with an initial eShop release as-is and then the disc release with the inevitable added content in September with DLC add-on for the download folks. The developers get the satisfaction of seeing their hard work pay off, Ubisoft gets early (hopefully positive) reviews and a good test of the retail download market on Wii U (pretty sure they have no other download-only titles there) and the fans get their game on-time. Everybody wins!

I believe that it was said earlier, but I suppose it's because if they release it now (whether digital or physical copies), by the time it releases on the other consoles, they may not be able to convince others to purchase it at full price, as it had already been out for months.

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...But of course, releasing a game later doesn't make any sense, and these publishers just didn't know what they were doing, right? :3

Are.... Are you comparing a port of a AAA game designed to take advantage of a console hardware launch with a potential port of a B-grade game for consoles that are half a decade old?

Do you really need me to point out eh fundamental differences in situation here, and therefore the fundamental flaw of your point?

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TysonOfTime

182. Posted:

Yes, I realized my momentarily lapse in sanity and edited my post immediately after reading it. :P

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Banker-Style

183. Posted:

Well I suppose the biggest game of 2013 isn't being released in September,so I suppose this decision is a clever move.

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Bankai

184. Posted:

Banker-Style wrote:

Well I suppose the biggest game of 2013 isn't being released in September,so I suppose this decision is a clever move.

Call of Duty is a November release.

So you're right. Well done (Y)

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Sean_Aaron

185. Posted:

I'm not getting how an early release on a new platform with a smaller install base would have any impact on different platforms - unless you're saying all the PS/360 owners who like Rayman are suddenly going to buy Wii Us to play this game if it's released early on Wii U?

And Bankai, I don't know who would actually be responsible for this decision, I meant more that your response of "I trust the business decision-makers know more than an Internet poster" is not a legit response to criticism of this move. It's about as valid as rejecting criticism of art by non-artists because they're not artists.

We don't have to work for Ubisoft to have rational and justifiable criticism of this delay. If you have a well-reasoned justification to propose as a riposte, fine, but otherwise I don't understand why you would be a knee-jerk apologist for them, which is what your posts look like to me.

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MAB

186. Posted:

The real reason RL is being held back... To add that ultra extreme MadAussie hard-boiled difficulty that the demo seemed to lack ;)

MAB

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Bankai

187. Posted:

Sean_Aaron wrote:

I'm not getting how an early release on a new platform with a smaller install base would have any impact on different platforms - unless you're saying all the PS/360 owners who like Rayman are suddenly going to buy Wii Us to play this game if it's released early on Wii U?

And Bankai, I don't know who would actually be responsible for this decision, I meant more that your response of "I trust the business decision-makers know more than an Internet poster" is not a legit response to criticism of this move. It's about as valid as rejecting criticism of art by non-artists because they're not artists.

We don't have to work for Ubisoft to have rational and justifiable criticism of this delay. If you have a well-reasoned justification to propose as a riposte, fine, but otherwise I don't understand why you would be a knee-jerk apologist for them, which is what your posts look like to me.

It's a marketing cost. A game doesn't need a TV ad campaign to rack up a significant marketing expense, and for a game that is as clearly going to underperform as RL, it would be better to focus the release around the major platforms. Ubisoft doesn't need PS3/ Xbox 360 owners having a cry because a six-month old Wii U version is 1/4 the price.

Business is not art. Business is numbers and data analysis. Ubisoft has access to data to the extent that you will never see. Ubisoft has a better vision of the market than you.

I am not apologising for Ubisoft. I am pointing our that neither you nor I are in any legitimate position to make any claims about the business position of RL.

Given that I have yet to see a well-reasoned argument for focusing a major game release on a console with a 3 million install base than two consoles with a combined 100 million install base, you'll have to forgive me while I questing your logic.

And by focusing I do mean 'release first' - give me one good reason why Ubisoft would be better off supporting the Wii U than the Xbox 360/ PS3 and I will happily concede that you have a point. But your opinion needs to be backed by hard, watertight data. Not studies from self-interested parties, and not anecdotal evidence.

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Sean_Aaron

188. Posted:

Apparently they had a pretty good reason when it was announced as an exclusive launch title and again when it was delayed. Nothing was different at launch or a month ago from today so if what you say is true it should never have been an exclusive and there shouldn't be a playable demo in the eShop now.

THAT is why people are upset and that is why this move makes no sense to me. Nothing about this decision has the smell of "business sense" about it at all.

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WaLzgi

189. Posted:

Bankai wrote:

LordLzGlad wrote:

Bankai wrote:

OUTRAGE! How DARE a company try and preserve the jobs of a few hundred people. There are NINTENDO GAMERS THAT WANT IT NOW!

Honestly, the reaction of the Nintendo Dude Fraternity to this announcement is the single most embarrassing case of gamer entitlement that I have ever seen in my 25 years of being a gamer.

Congratulations kids you have made me want to sell my Wii U and 3DS just so I can avoid any possible association to you, ever.

You're joking right?

Did you conveniently forget the death threats that companies have been getting from Microsoft and Sony fanboys, especially Platinum games? See the post above.

Not that I in any way condone those ... People's... Behaviour, but assuming they are fanboys, they are never going to get Bayonetta 2. Assuming they loved the first but for whatever reason can't get or afford a Wii U, it's at least somewhat understandable that they'd be upset at not being able to play a sequel to a favourite game.

Wii U people are still getting the Rayman game. It's six months wait. Again, unless you have a terminal illness and Rayman is your sole reason for living, grow the hell up and develop some patience.

Well you seem to imply that Nintendo fanboys are worse. From my experience of...responding to fanboys' posts, I can tell you that all fanboys (Xbox, Playstation and Nintendo) are equally bad.

Edited on by WaLzgi

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Bankai

190. Posted:

Sean_Aaron wrote:

Apparently they had a pretty good reason when it was announced as an exclusive launch title and again when it was delayed. Nothing was different at launch or a month ago from today so if what you say is true it should never have been an exclusive and there shouldn't be a playable demo in the eShop now.

THAT is why people are upset and that is why this move makes no sense to me. Nothing about this decision has the smell of "business sense" about it at all.

The Wii U has undersold expectations, actually. Nintendo would have passed on its hardware expectations to Ubi prior to launch, and Ubi would have worked on projects based on those expectations.

For a console to not sell as well as expected. That there is a warning sign to publishers.

On top of that, we don't know if Zombiau and Ubis other titles met expectations, not if the Wii U software attach rate is as high as expected. If Nintendo failed there, again, no surprise Ubi has shifted focus elsewhere.

Everyone is so quick to blame Ubi for all this. Perhaps people should consider that Nintendo failed at launch and Ubi is just trying to make a return on the investment?

I'm not saying that is the case, but you don't need to be a CEO to realize that this issue runs deeper than Ubi simply deciding to be obnoxious.

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ReindeerDasher

191. Posted:

@Bankai I don't know what game you like the most, but say there's an announced sequel, or something along this line, and you're really excited for it. In fact, it comes with an awesome pre-order bonus, so say you've pre-ordered it. Then, a week before release, they push it back 3 months. You think "fine, probably improving it or something along those lines" and go on with your life for 3 months. Then, a week before release, they push it back 7 months, so that they could outright lie to customers. If this were me(because honestly I don't care too much about this game) then I'd be extremely pissed off, for 2 reasons. 1) I'm a fanboy(I can see your response now on that) and 2) I really like hyping things, but that's not something I can control. Now, this may not happen, but say it's pushed back ANOTHER 3 MONTHS. By then, it'd be over a year since when it was supposed to launch. You've wasted your time hyping it, for how long you waited it isn't worth it, and, you were lied to. Imagine your reaction to something like that. Try looking at it through other people's eyes, I mean, I know it's hard to believe, but other people have opinions too, and different personalities.

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TysonOfTime

192. Posted:

@Bankai
I can see them shifting attention, but then why would they hold back on the potentially not-selling version? With all the lead up there's been for it, why not release it now, and build on the 7 months of whatever it sells with the Xbox and PS3 versions?

Let's say the spend no more effort on advertising the Wii U version than they already have, release it, and then advertise the two new versions 7 months for now along with the Wii U version.
Would that be detrimental to the total profit?

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FOREST_RANGER

193. Posted:

@Bankai There was an original install base, and Ubisoft's probably making a smarter decision in the end.

But...

I'm getting feeling you're not thoroughly comprehending the situation on the other side near the ordinary people. More specifically, you do not seem to feel the anger of these users. Once again... they are angry. People can be irrational when they're angry. In addition to this, everyone is biased by this recent event and how it gives Ubisoft a sour perception at the moment. You, the user who is experienced with businesses and economics, seem to be acknowledging ordinary people who have better things to do than be like you or research on economics, that they are delinquents in the economics of the game industry. Congrats on being a role model, but here's news for you:

  • These people aren't economics students
  • They are angry
  • If they are angry, it's immensely difficult to understand Ubisoft's well-being when their precious game has been delayed right before its original release for several months
  • While angry, it's also difficult to be empathetic of Ubisoft when they APPEAR to be letting down the Wii U owners by delaying a game when it's likely complete whilst reading about the game developer's discontent with this decision
  • These are people who are known to develop empathy for capitalistic byproducts
  • If people have empathy for a particular company, it's possible that they are angry about other stuff too, such as the Wii U having a bad press right now and having nothing to play

This makes me think of school: if a school teacher notices that a student is making a mistake with their assignment, it's beneficial to let them know and slowly help the student work their way to the right solution/path. It's NOT beneficial to smack their hands and imply to them they are delinquents.

I'm really sorry if I received the wrong message or that I sound irrational, but this just needed to addressed. :(

EDIT: Let me add that it's very easy to fall into a trap that looks disguised, especially when you're ANGRY

Edited on by FOREST_RANGER

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123akis

194. Posted:

ubisoft made mess with rayman legends!! when they first started developing the game they should of thinked hard whether to bring it to multiplatform. then they could of developed each version at the same time and they would of been no delay. first they get us excited by saying its coming at wii u launch, then they say its gonna be delayed until February then they revealed it for 28th february... then they put a demo on the eshop making us think thats its definitely launching! and now they DELAY IT TO SEPTEMBER 2013!!!!!!! STOP MESSING WITH US UBISOFT!! i will NEVER believe anything that comes out there mouths again... i wouldent be surprised if rayman legends got delayed to 2014

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Xiao_Pai

195. Posted:

Looks like they're working on a new Wii U demo for this game. Doesn't do much...wished these guys would just join Nintendo or something and let Ubisoft die, lol.

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edhe

196. Posted:

https://www.facebook.com/ubisoft/posts/10151284871242293

Here's that blog post.

"Thanks for all your feedback regarding Rayman Legends"

"We are working with the development team to provide you with a new, exclusive demo for the Wii U soon. Stay tuned for more."

I think I speak for everyone when I say all is forgiven. Welcome back, Ubisoft.

Edited on by edhe

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kkslider5552000

197. Posted:

edhe wrote:

"We are working with the development team to provide you with a new, exclusive demo for the Wii U soon. Stay tuned for more."

Translation: More work for the developer! That'll show a former employee for daring to speak out against us! Won't try that again! (note: I don't actually believe this, but it's funny so screw you all)

Edited on by kkslider5552000

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cheetahman91

198. Posted:

edhe wrote:

https://www.facebook.com/ubisoft/posts/10151284871242293

Here's that blog post.

"Thanks for all your feedback regarding Rayman Legends"

"We are working with the development team to provide you with a new, exclusive demo for the Wii U soon. Stay tuned for more."

I think I speak for everyone when I say all is forgiven. Welcome back, Ubisoft.

LOL is that all they're doing. You can't be serious.

Edited on by cheetahman91

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SmallFryUnify

199. Posted:

Bankai wrote:

Sean_Aaron wrote:

I'm not getting how an early release on a new platform with a smaller install base would have any impact on different platforms - unless you're saying all the PS/360 owners who like Rayman are suddenly going to buy Wii Us to play this game if it's released early on Wii U?

And Bankai, I don't know who would actually be responsible for this decision, I meant more that your response of "I trust the business decision-makers know more than an Internet poster" is not a legit response to criticism of this move. It's about as valid as rejecting criticism of art by non-artists because they're not artists.

We don't have to work for Ubisoft to have rational and justifiable criticism of this delay. If you have a well-reasoned justification to propose as a riposte, fine, but otherwise I don't understand why you would be a knee-jerk apologist for them, which is what your posts look like to me.

It's a marketing cost. A game doesn't need a TV ad campaign to rack up a significant marketing expense, and for a game that is as clearly going to underperform as RL, it would be better to focus the release around the major platforms. Ubisoft doesn't need PS3/ Xbox 360 owners having a cry because a six-month old Wii U version is 1/4 the price.

Business is not art. Business is numbers and data analysis. Ubisoft has access to data to the extent that you will never see. Ubisoft has a better vision of the market than you.

I am not apologising for Ubisoft. I am pointing our that neither you nor I are in any legitimate position to make any claims about the business position of RL.

Given that I have yet to see a well-reasoned argument for focusing a major game release on a console with a 3 million install base than two consoles with a combined 100 million install base, you'll have to forgive me while I questing your logic.

And by focusing I do mean 'release first' - give me one good reason why Ubisoft would be better off supporting the Wii U than the Xbox 360/ PS3 and I will happily concede that you have a point. But your opinion needs to be backed by hard, watertight data. Not studies from self-interested parties, and not anecdotal evidence.

The very fact that there's Wii U owners who potentially bought the machine at retail after trying out the ONLY demo available, theirs and seeing it was supposedly an exclusive, also that it was due to release at launch. Maybe, just maybe that is reason enough for Ubisoft, even after a delay to actually follow through on their February 26th release date.

I'm also pretty sure that many exclusives have been released on brand spanking new machines that sold less than the Wii U has in it's launch window yet there was no doubt or questions about putting out exclusives on those or excuses to cancel once advertised exclusives.the whole benefit of releasing during the launch window is for the extra exposure that you get for your game. You put it on there and despite a smaller install base, there's a potentially much higher percentage of gamers willing to snap it up because of the relative drought of software during any machines first year. Ubisoft has used the Wii U essentially to promote it's game making empty promises about exclusivity, then a the very last minute screwed everyone over. They still got their marketing, they still got their game front of house at retail, they still got fans trying it and promoting it online, yet they can't even do what's right and what probably would have been a better decision to release as planned then port later.

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kkslider5552000

200. Posted:

I do think Rayman Legends should have taken advantage of early console droughts. Early console buyers seem to be the most likely to know that games beyond super blockbusters actually exist. That's nice of them.

Edited on by kkslider5552000

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