Wii U Forum

Topic: Pikmin 3 not multiplayer co-op story mode :(

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WesCash

21. Posted:

DefHalan wrote:

If Multiplayer is optional then who cares?

I think it's the idea that it would be better for Nintendo to focus on single player and co-op before devoting time and resources to a multiplayer aspect. But I agree, I certainly wouldn't complain if Pikmin 3 ended up being for up to 4 players. It would be a nice bonus.

WesCash

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KingDunsparce

22. Posted:

It would be nice but I'm fine even if it doesn't have it.
Single Player is to practice owning my friends in Multiplayer when they finally give in to my begging and decide to play >:)

Edited on by KingDunsparce

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PloXyZeRO

23. Posted:

Co-op is fun and all but I loved Pikmin 2 versus mode. I don't get why they won't implement online on this game!
I know they claim that syncing 100 Pikmin across the Internet wouldn't work....but we're in 2013, I think most people have Internet that could handle it
There are many games out there that have many elements that need to be synced across the Internet with much more than two people and those games are fine

Oh well..I just hope to see some good multiplayer modes

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ShadJV

24. Posted:

PloXyZeRO wrote:

Co-op is fun and all but I loved Pikmin 2 versus mode. I don't get why they won't implement online on this game!
I know they claim that syncing 100 Pikmin across the Internet wouldn't work....but we're in 2013, I think most people have Internet that could handle it
There are many games out there that have many elements that need to be synced across the Internet with much more than two people and those games are fine

Oh well..I just hope to see some good multiplayer modes

It's not that internet can't handle that, it's the Wii U hardware. All the information needs to be synced between multiple systems AND streamed to the gamepad almost seamlessly, and quite simply the Wii U can't handle that much. Nintendo knows that and isn't afraid to admit its limitations, after all to best harness a system you need to know its limitations and a game looks better with no online than with a online modes that don't work well. That's not saying the Wii U can't handle good HD games online, just not ones where players are controlling a hundred characters each.

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SCAR392

25. Posted:

How did MAG manage over 100 people in firefights online, then? I think it has to do more with the concept of the game and how they would fit it into the game. Not to mention people would have lag, because not everyone has the fastest internet all the time.

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PloXyZeRO

26. Posted:

Yeah, MAG actually had 256 players in ONE game at the same time, all being controller by different people (while Pikmin are only controlled by two)
If the PS3 can handle it, I'm sure the Wii U could with enough effort.

I guess it's a good move that Nintendo didn't try to implement online if they though it would be bad, but to be honest, I think they could if they really wanted to put the effort into it. I'm sure syncing it wouldn't require a super fast internet connection.

I used to host 32 player Fat Princess games on PS3 a while ago when I had a connection of like 7 down and 1.5 up, and I never had problems (32 people individually controlling their own characters as opposed to AI pikmin), but there's nothing that will change about that now so I can't do anything about it!

Oh well, local multiplayer is still fun! I'm actually glad about the fact that NintendoLand didn't have online multiplayer because it encourages my friends to come over to my house more often (or go to their houses), but no online in Pikmin 3 is a little disappointing. I'll live with it though!

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ShadJV

27. Posted:

What everyone seems to forget is that the Wii U has to stream video and audio wirelessly between the console and controller ON TOP OF all the information being sent online. Already the Wii U is having to divide it's processing power between the console and controller. There's an additional step after sending the packets between consoles: sending them to the controller for its display. And sending it back to the console. Continuously. While the information is simultaneously being sent to multiple systems over the internet. All while each system attempts to sync with the gamepads. You want to try and get such a system to work, be my guest. But my experience with game design coupled with the the Wii U's specs (or rather any current system's specs) is enough for me to say it would be impossible to do without noticeable lag. But make this argument all day, MAG didn't have to constantly sync video and audio with a controller.

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MAN1AC

28. Posted:

It would have been nice to have, but this is far from a deal breaker for me.

I wish there was a way to know you are in the good ole days before you actually leave them.

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19Robb92

29. Posted:

I actually thought CoOp would be a given considering the multiple characters you have this time.. So this is somewhat disappointing.

Looking forward to: Mario Kart 8

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BenAV

30. Posted:

I'll be much happier if the story mode is single player only.
Either way I'd be playing it by myself, so I'd rather them focus on making it the best single player experience they possibly can rather than trying to make levels that would work better in a team.
It should definitely have a separate multiplayer mode though.

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SCAR392

31. Posted:

ShadJV wrote:

What everyone seems to forget is that the Wii U has to stream video and audio wirelessly between the console and controller ON TOP OF all the information being sent online. Already the Wii U is having to divide it's processing power between the console and controller. There's an additional step after sending the packets between consoles: sending them to the controller for its display. And sending it back to the console. Continuously. While the information is simultaneously being sent to multiple systems over the internet. All while each system attempts to sync with the gamepads. You want to try and get such a system to work, be my guest. But my experience with game design coupled with the the Wii U's specs (or rather any current system's specs) is enough for me to say it would be impossible to do without noticeable lag. But make this argument all day, MAG didn't have to constantly sync video and audio with a controller.

Wii U's controller has some pretty fast connections between all of its components. The only extra processing the Wii U is doing is for the content on the gamepad screen, extra controls it offers, and streaming. Even a video streamer can make content show up on screen pretty much instantly. That takes very little away at all.
Those little hitchs do affect the programming in some cases, which is exactly why some people see freezes sometimes, but it's the usually the software's fault, not the actual console like alot of people like to point fingers at whenever one comes to light.
Youtube and Netflix get an update almost constantly on PS3 when they run perfectly all the time.
Really saying that balancing all these things for online is selling alot of potential short. Nintendo could even be running a completely different program specifically for gamepad use with in the console. 2GB of RAM is more than the other consoles right now, because they are most likely running little bits of alot of information at once, then prioritize one application at a time and dedicating most of the RAM to that area. PS4 has 8GB of RAM which is probably going to be used for all the internet features all at once, but it will always be running them all at once instead of one at a time.
Wii U is more than capable of alot more than what people think. The similarity between last gen consoles graphics are basically the only factor making people sell it short.

Edited on by SCAR392

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SCAR392

32. Posted:

There is aways progress between consoles whether people realize it or not.
Wii U basically does everything Xbox 360 and PS3 do seamlessly like it's nothing. Optimizing current technology is an improvement.
There will be improvements on other consoles like PS4 and the next Xbox, but it will also take time to figure out how to use those capabilites to their max potential.

Edited on by SCAR392

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Chrono_Cross

33. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

There is aways progress between consoles whether people realize it or not.
Wii U basically does everything Xbox 360 and PS3 do seamlessly like it's nothing. Optimizing current technology is an improvement.
There will be improvements on other consoles like PS4 and the next Xbox, but it will also take time to figure out how to use those capabilites to their max potential.

What does Wii U do that its competition does, exactly?

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SCAR392

34. Posted:

Chrono_Cross wrote:

SCAR392 wrote:

There is aways progress between consoles whether people realize it or not.
Wii U basically does everything Xbox 360 and PS3 do seamlessly like it's nothing. Optimizing current technology is an improvement.
There will be improvements on other consoles like PS4 and the next Xbox, but it will also take time to figure out how to use those capabilites to their max potential.

What does Wii U do that its competition does, exactly?

Everything. The only thing Nintendo has to even worry about is getting good software and making it run well. Nintendo just optimized everything that made the other consoles appealing. Sony and Microsoft will have all new tech, and it will take time, patience, and creativity in some cases to get their consoles to shine overall.
Alot of last generation was figuring out the hardware on all the consoles. Even Nintendo had to figure out how to make motion controls work well in the games last gen.

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Chrono_Cross

35. Posted:

Explain "everything".

Edited on by Chrono_Cross

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SCAR392

36. Posted:

Chrono_Cross wrote:

Explain "everything".

Well, look at the PS3 for instance. They were able to size it down to like a 1/3 of the size it was originally. I wouldn't be surprised if we they get alot of the next gen games running on Wii U. I do recall hearing that Unreal Engine 4 will be runnable on Wii U to less of a degree.
Really, I think Wii U will be able to run 75% of said Unreal 4 content that will run at 100% on other consoles. That will be a while no doubt, especially to max out that engine, but I think Nintendo will be able to do some tricks to get things running on their console anyways.
They could even release a hardware box that gets the games to run just as well quality wise as the other consoles while not actually requiring the box, but those technologies don't exist yet as far as being public and being widely known.
The only people who truly know what their devices can do is the people who made them. We just have to wait and see if they actually work.

Edited on by SCAR392

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ShadJV

37. Posted:

SCAR392 wrote:

ShadJV wrote:

What everyone seems to forget is that the Wii U has to stream video and audio wirelessly between the console and controller ON TOP OF all the information being sent online. Already the Wii U is having to divide it's processing power between the console and controller. There's an additional step after sending the packets between consoles: sending them to the controller for its display. And sending it back to the console. Continuously. While the information is simultaneously being sent to multiple systems over the internet. All while each system attempts to sync with the gamepads. You want to try and get such a system to work, be my guest. But my experience with game design coupled with the the Wii U's specs (or rather any current system's specs) is enough for me to say it would be impossible to do without noticeable lag. But make this argument all day, MAG didn't have to constantly sync video and audio with a controller.

Wii U's controller has some pretty fast connections between all of its components. The only extra processing the Wii U is doing is for the content on the gamepad screen, extra controls it offers, and streaming. Even a video streamer can make content show up on screen pretty much instantly. That takes very little away at all.
Those little hitchs do affect the programming in some cases, which is exactly why some people see freezes sometimes, but it's the usually the software's fault, not the actual console like alot of people like to point fingers at whenever one comes to light.
Youtube and Netflix get an update almost constantly on PS3 when they run perfectly all the time.
Really saying that balancing all these things for online is selling alot of potential short. Nintendo could even be running a completely different program specifically for gamepad use with in the console. 2GB of RAM is more than the other consoles right now, because they are most likely running little bits of alot of information at once, then prioritize one application at a time and dedicating most of the RAM to that area. PS4 has 8GB of RAM which is probably going to be used for all the internet features all at once, but it will always be running them all at once instead of one at a time.
Wii U is more than capable of alot more than what people think. The similarity between last gen consoles graphics are basically the only factor making people sell it short.

Fine. Miyamoto himself said the system can't handle it. Are you saying he lied? Or that you understand the system's capabilities better than him?

Feel free to add me on the Nintendo Network: ShadJV
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PloXyZeRO

38. Posted:

I just remembered you can play Pikmin 2 online through netplay with Dolphin emulator, because I've done it before.
If I can play a Gamecube game online with an emulator that wasn't even DESIGNED to be an online multiplayer game, there's no reason why they couldn't implement it in the Wii U version other than sheer laziness.

Edited on by PloXyZeRO

MrSRArter wrote:

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ShadJV

39. Posted:

PloXyZeRO wrote:

I just remembered you can play Pikmin 2 online through netplay with Dolphin emulator, because I've done it before.
If I can play a Gamecube game online with an emulator that wasn't even DESIGNED to be an online multiplayer game, there's no reason why they couldn't implement it in the Wii U version other than sheer laziness.

Does your computer have a gamepad? Unless somehow it does, you have completely missed the problem.

Okay, I'll put this in terms hopefully everybody can understand because people don't seem to realize how the gamepad works. The system is not simply streaming an image to the gamepad. It is splitting the system's resources in half (CPU, GPU, etc) to continuously update both displays. Every frame requires the system to send video, audio, and quite a lot of other information to the gamepad so that it can also process the information appropriately. Simultaneously, the gamepad sends quite a lot of input (buttons, touchscreen, various motion controls, and more) to the system, which has to interpret the information, update itself, and send any updates back to the gamepad so it's screen doesn't lag behind. All in one frame, a sliver of a second. The console is more than halving its resources to do this (all resources, CPU, GPU, etc). When connected online, it has to do all of the above as well as update with all the other consoles involved. Now this is feasible with smaller amounts of information but with hundreds of models simultaneously needing to react to player inputs and movements, all having to be sent to the system and then the gamepad with all the back and forth updates... This takes way more processing power than the average consumer realizes.

Tl;dr Miyamoto isn't lazy or stupid, if you think it's that reasonable buy a dev kit and make a better game, because right now he is more familiar with how his system works.

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PloXyZeRO

40. Posted:

I know the basics of how the gamepad works. However, it shouldn't have anything to do with the online activity because it will probably just act as a map or something. It's not like the Wii U has to render even MORE information to the gamepad because of online play, it just has to receive/transmit player input, position of objects, etc., and sync them up. If it could handle local multiplayer, I don't see why it would take much more processing power for online play. From a hardware standpoint, I'm positive the Wii U could handle it. I think they're more worried that the Internet connection between people would be too slow for some cases. Nintendo hasn't been very good with online in the past (just look at Brawl for example...it lagged online so much and didn't even need to send/receive too much information, and I TRULY believe that if they were more experienced in the field, they could make it happen. If LittleBigPlanet on the PS3 can handle four players and HUNDREDS of flying objects around with smooth online, the Wii U could handle Pikmin 3 online. Nintendo just doesn't seen online as a high priority when developing there games, which is fine, but the Wii U is definitely capable.

Of course I can't just buy a dev kit and create a game better than Pikmin 3, but if Pikmin 3 had a LAN option (99.99% sure it won't), I could get it working online for sure.

MrSRArter wrote:

Nintendo is rich while Detroit is bankrupt. They could use Detroit make a real Nintendo Land theme park.

3DS Friend Code: 3325-2132-3153 | Nintendo Network ID: PloXyZeRO | Twitter: ContraParadox