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Topic: Nintendo's Selling Out

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Bowser908

I haven't been focusing too much on recent controversial Nintendo practices, but I've learned more about them in the past two weeks or so. I'm going to try to articulate all of the negative reaction to this simply.

First we have Amiibo. Little toys that use NFC to interact with the Wii U or 3DS to unlock characters or content. It's basically Nintendo Skylanders.
It's obvious why this is bad. Amiibo puts parts of games behind paywalls, forcing people to go out and buy a loving toy to enjoy content that is on the disc.

When I buy a disc, Nintendo, I want the whole game. Not a "base game" or a "starter pack", but the full game, a full experience, and no paying for anything else to enjoy the content I paid for. I'm not going to buy a game for $60 to find that, yay, to enjoy half of the game I have to shell out $20 to get figures that are likely not even in a store near me. Not only that, but you see idiots who actually bough Amiibo, and they actually try to defend it, out of mostly blind fanboyism.

Nintendo has two free-to-play games on the 3DS eShop, Pokemon Shuffle and Pokemon Rumble World. You can still enjoy these games free, of course, and most people don't buy jewels or whatnot in the game. But this represents a huge moral lapse on Nintendo's part. Even if a pooparific half-baked Pokemon version of Bejeweled is free, just offering the option to "pay to advance faster" is condescending to users, and hiding content from users to buy is a very un-Nintendo move for Nintendo. It's disgusting, to say the least.

The other one is DLC. I'm very much against additional content in the form of paid DLC, no matter how much of a "deal" it is. Smash characters are horrendously overpriced for something that should have been a simple update, and the Mii Fighter costume poopadoodle should just have been an unlockable included within the game. I'm not going to shell out money for these characters that existed in past iterations, or costumes that are only cosmetic.
Now, I've seen people argue that the MK8 DLC was a good deal. Not really. Nintendo either should have either provided a free update if the additional content was created after the game was released, include it with the game if they, as is likely, developed it with the game and planned beforehand to sell it as DLC, or just put them on the idea list for Mario Kart NX. There is no reason to extend and adorn a finished game with extra "content" you sell. I expect what is on the disk to be all of Mario Kart 8 and all of their development effort on it. The free Mercades-Benz DLC was also terrible.
New Super Luigi U, being DLC, seeing the content offered, seems to indicate this is something Nintendo created while they were developing New Super Mario Bros U, and what they should have done is put on the disc from the beginning or just plan a New Super Luigi Bros for a later date. And so on and so forth for Hyrule Warriors, Fire Emblem Awakening, etc.

They are going completely against their earlier statements and promises regarding mobile and DLC. I wonder how valiantly the late Satoru Iwata fought against this, because it was obviously not enough, as he lost in the end.

I myself will not be buying any Amiibo, DLC, nor will I play any free-to-play games. Nintendo is learning the wrong lessons here, and we need to vote with our dollars to indicate that this is something we won't stand for.

Edited on by LzWinky

Bowser908

Sleepingmudkip

Bowser908 wrote:

Nintendo has two free-to-play games on the 3DS eShop, Pokemon Shuffle and Pokemon Rumble World. You can still enjoy these games free, of course, and most people don't buy jewels or whatnot in the game. But this represents a huge moral lapse on Nintendo's part. Even if a pooparific half-baked Pokemon version of Bejeweled is free, just offering the option to "pay to advance faster" is condescending to users, and hiding content from users to buy is a very un-Nintendo move for Nintendo. It's disgusting, to say the least.

With the pokemon games they may not be nintendo fault. the pokemon IP is confusing because pokemon company is often in control of how the pokemon IP is used and nintendo normally doesnt even pay attention to what pokemon company is even doing which is why nintendo doesnt even acknowledge the fact that there are multiple pokemon apps on mobile or the TCG is on PC.

way I remember it
GameFreak makes core games
Pokemon company licences and markets
Nintendo often publishes and the holder of the Pokemon IP

Edited on by LzWinky

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skywake

1. You don't have to buy Amiibo, the vast majority of the content they unlock is purely cosmetic. Nothing released so far has needed them for a core function. And as someone who has brought far too many Amiibos I'd say that the unlocking of content is very, very secondary. Mostly it's about the collective nature of the things and the fact that they are decent figurines of often unloved characters. I have a bag-full of Nintendo plushies for the same reason.

2. Free to play in and of itself I don't see what the problem is. It's when it becomes pay-to-win that you start to have a problem. And Pokemon Shuffle is NOT pay-to-win. As it is Pokemon Shuffle is my fourth most played game on my 3DS. That's going back years. The games above it? Streetpass, Animal Crossing and Pokemon Y. And I haven't payed a cent yet.

3. DLC. Yes, Smash Bros DLC is probably a bit overpriced for what it is. I'd agree with that. However it's hardly the worst kind of DLC any company has ever produced. The cosmetic stuff is a bit of a joke for how much it costs but it's cosmetic. The fighters? They're actually not that expensive. I mean compared to other DLC Nintendo has done it looks average. The Mario Kart 8 DLC and New Super Luigi U? That was a high benchmark. But getting Ryu in Smash? .... I got him, I don't see what the issue is.

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

Bolt_Strike

I'm not sure about Shuffle, but Rumble World is most definitely pay to win. There's microtransactions littered everywhere to bypass various inconvencies, and the cost to unlock some of the later stages takes months' worth of grinding to accumulate (the last stage in the game costs 200 Diamonds. I'm lucky to get more than 2 or 3 per day. To put things in perspective, 1 Diamond is worth a little more than a penny of real world money). The game is incredibly grindy if you play for free.

Edited on by Bolt_Strike

Bolt_Strike

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polarbear

"we need to vote with our dollars". Yes, I agree. But to me it's not black or white.

I like MK8 course packs and would buy even more if released. I don't like the Mii fighter costumes and free to play games so I skip them. That is also sending a message to Nintendo.

polarbear

LzWinky

Bowser908 wrote:

I haven't been focusing too much on recent controversial Nintendo practices, but I've learned more about them in the past two weeks or so. I'm going to try to articulate all of the negative reaction to this simply.

Oh boy...

First we have Amiibo. Little toys that use NFC to interact with the Wii U or 3DS to unlock characters or content. It's basically Nintendo Skylanders.

Except it's not. Aside from Splatoon and Fire Emblem, most of the amiibo content is cosmetic.

It's obvious why this is bad. Amiibo puts parts of games behind paywalls, forcing people to go out and buy a loving toy to enjoy content that is on the disc.

Again, cosmetic.

When I buy a disc, Nintendo, I want the whole game. Not a "base game" or a "starter pack", but the full game, a full experience, and no paying for anything else to enjoy the content I paid for.

Fine. Give me an example where amiibo takes away from the "full experience". I suppose one costume will infuriate you to no end, correct?

I'm not going to buy a game for $60 to find that, yay, to enjoy half of the game I have to shell out $20 to get figures that are likely not even in a store near me.

Perfect example of a severe exaggeration. I didn't realize those costumes were so important to you.

Not only that, but you see idiots who actually bough Amiibo, and they actually try to defend it, out of mostly blind fanboyism.

Oh spare me. I bought figures for the appeal of having collectible Nintendo figures, and I don't particularly care to hear your incessant rant about my or anyone else's buying habits. If you don't like it, then go somewhere else because I plan to buy more amiibo and post my collection here.

Nintendo has two free-to-play games on the 3DS eShop, Pokemon Shuffle and Pokemon Rumble World. You can still enjoy these games free, of course, and most people don't buy jewels or whatnot in the game. But this represents a huge moral lapse on Nintendo's part. Even if a pooparific half-baked Pokemon version of Bejeweled is free, just offering the option to "pay to advance faster" is condescending to users, and hiding content from users to buy is a very un-Nintendo move for Nintendo. It's disgusting, to say the least.

As opposed to making them pay $40-$60 for a full game up front?

The other one is DLC. I'm very much against additional content in the form of paid DLC, no matter how much of a "deal" it is.

Then don't buy it.

Smash characters are horrendously overpriced for something that should have been a simple update,

Because extra work and hard labor should in no way be compensated. Never mind the fact that Smash had a lot of content to begin with.

and the Mii Fighter costume poopadoodle should just have been an unlockable included within the game. I'm not going to shell out money for these characters that existed in past iterations, or costumes that are only cosmetic.

Then don't?

Now, I've seen people argue that the MK8 DLC was a good deal. Not really. Nintendo either should have either provided a free update if the additional content was created after the game was released,

Or charge for the extra content they know people will buy...

include it with the game if they, as is likely, developed it with the game and planned beforehand to sell it as DLC,

because we demand more content for the same price!

or just put them on the idea list for Mario Kart NX. There is no reason to extend and adorn a finished game with extra "content" you sell.

Fans will spend more money for more content. Do you really need to overthink this?

I expect what is on the disk to be all of Mario Kart 8 and all of their development effort on it.

I suggest you stop buying games then.

The free Mercades-Benz DLC was also terrible.

And it was free. Does this not contradict what you said earlier?

New Super Luigi U, being DLC,

...and a separate game...

seeing the content offered, seems to indicate this is something Nintendo created while they were developing New Super Mario Bros U, and what they should have done is put on the disc from the beginning or just plan a New Super Luigi Bros for a later date.

...which they did plan for later?

And so on and so forth for Hyrule Warriors, Fire Emblem Awakening, etc.

Hyrule Warriors had free content with a plethora of extra content for a fair price. I can tell you didn't play the game since you fail to point out how much content it had to begin with. Fire Emblem Awakening's DLC is extra content and is not even necessary to the main campaign, which is also generous with content.

They are going completely against their earlier statements and promises regarding mobile and DLC.

I say a lot of things that I change my mind on later. Does that make me a bad person?

I wonder how valiantly the late Satoru Iwata fought against this,

He probably didn't fight as much as you thought he did.

because it was obviously not enough, as he lost in the end.

He shook hands with the DeNA execs. I doubt there was much of a fight to begin with. He also said a lot of things that were quite disagreeable but he changed his mind on those too.

I myself will not be buying any Amiibo, DLC, nor will I play any free-to-play games. Nintendo is learning the wrong lessons here, and we need to vote with our dollars to indicate that this is something we won't stand for.

Except Nintendo is making more money here. What "wrong lessons" are they learning?

Current games: Everything on Switch

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skywake

Bolt_Strike wrote:

I'm not sure about Shuffle, but Rumble World is most definitely pay to win. There's microtransactions littered everywhere to bypass various inconvencies, and the cost to unlock some of the later stages takes months' worth of grinding to accumulate (the last stage in the game costs 200 Diamonds. I'm lucky to get more than 2 or 3 per day. To put things in perspective, 1 Diamond is worth a little more than a penny of real world money). The game is incredibly grindy if you play for free.

Well I can't speak for Rumble because I haven't downloaded it. I'm not at all interested in the game free to play or not. With Shuffle though you can play and beat any level without spending any of the coins. The coins just unlock easier bonuses. They give you 500 coins every day you play and another 200 or so for each level you beat the first time and 30 every time after that. Then other bonus levels and special daily levels where you can get 100s or 1000s of coins. And again for every streetpass.

The most brutal it gets is with the competitions. But you only need to get a high score once and you're given a week to get it. I'm sure the people at the top are spending a lot of coins (and probably also money) but in order to "win" the level? You only need to be in the top 1/2 or so. Which isn't too hard. And you can get there by just using the coins you earn naturally a bit smarter.

As I said, I've put a good 100hours into it, have got every single bonus level thus far. I haven't spent a single cent and haven't at any point really felt any need to. So I don't see what the big issue is. But again, just with Shuffle. I don't know if the other ones are any different.

Edited on by skywake

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

CaviarMeths

Oh good! I was worried about their financial straits for a while there.

So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.

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@CaviarMeths: Nintendo certainly isn't doing great right now, but they are far from being in financial trouble. Truth be told they are in a better position then almost every other AAA developer in Japan right now.

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Fazermint

LztheQuack wrote:

Except Nintendo is making more money here. What "wrong lessons" are they learning?

That is the thing, though. Nintendo is making more money without delivering anything of value. And that is the opposite of the mentality most of us have associated with Nintendo for years. Overpriced plastic figures is a major hit to Nintendo's reputation.

Smash 4 manifest: I shall not

Spam ranged attacksCenter my playstyle around 1 or 2 combosFish for meteor spikesInsult my opponent through player tags

Nintendo Network ID: VanHelvet

Shinion

Whine, whine whine! C'mon gimme a break. You're not honestly telling me Nintendo are the sell-outs in an industry where the other two companies buy their exclusive 3rd party games, DLC and charge for once free services like online and backwards compatibility (PSN). PS, it seems your research on amiibo was far from adequate, if you can tell me one game that is only a starter pack sans an or several amiibo I'd be amazed 'cause I sure as hell don't know about it. They're £11 figures that unlock cosmetics, extra challanges that unlock cosmetics or just items. Look at Batman Arkham Knight, that Season Pass is £35 and it is cosmetics and challanges that are just bare-faced in how they've been locked behind a paywall and saved for DLC. Time's are a'changin' and Nintendo sure as heck aren't the worst company out there for their amiibo practices and DLC, take the Smash DLC, charging £5 a fighter is par the course for these games nowadays, and in this case you get it on two different games as opposed to say Mortal Kombat X. On the other hand, look at Mario Kart 8, £11 for 5 more characters, 50% more tracks and a few cosmetics, AND 200CC for free? That is without doubt the best paid DLC I've ever seen. So in the end I just think you whined about nothing and if/when you read these comments you'll see how things look from the other side.

Shinion

CaviarMeths

Fazermint wrote:

LztheQuack wrote:

Except Nintendo is making more money here. What "wrong lessons" are they learning?

That is the thing, though. Nintendo is making more money without delivering anything of value. And that is the opposite of the mentality most of us have associated with Nintendo for years. Overpriced plastic figures is a major hit to Nintendo's reputation.

Hi.

This is $180:

Untitled

$55:

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$150:

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$55:

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$75:

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$125:

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$60:

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And $270:

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What is an acceptable price point for mass produced figurines, in your opinion?

Edited on by CaviarMeths

So Anakin kneels before Monster Mash and pledges his loyalty to the graveyard smash.

jump

Yes, the Amiibos are selling out...I can't find them anywhere...OUTRAGE!

Nicolai wrote:

Alright, I gotta stop getting into arguments with jump. Someone remind me next time.

Switch Friend Code: SW-8051-9575-2812 | 3DS Friend Code: 1762-3772-0251

Ogbert

Ah, more Amiibo, Free to play and DLC complaints from someone who doesn't understand them.

When Nintendo offers pre-order DLC missions and story packs exclusive to multiple retailers and announces the price of a season pass before the game is released, then you can say they're selling out. When an Amiibo is actually required to play a game then you can complain about them selling out.

But at the moment there is nothing to complain about. Nintendo aren't even remotely close to selling out, but if they ever get close to it their fans will let them know. Look at the reaction to this years E3. You think Nintendo fans are not vocal when displeased? We are. We're just not displeased by these things. Perhaps because we have taken the time to reasonably asses them, rather than jumping to conclusions, making sweeping statements and generally misunderstanding what we're talking about.

Edited on by Ogbert

Ogbert

Ogbert

@CaviarMeths: That's pricey for the Lucina Figma! I pre-ordered mine for $60 from Tokyo Otaku Mode, though it seems they're sold out now.

Ogbert

Smash_kirby

Pahvi wrote:

@LztheQuack Link amiibo in Hyrule Warriors does unlock a new weapon class (Spinners), so that is locking a bit more than just a skin.

I have seen a lot of Link and Toon Link Amiibo figures so the weapon isn't too hard to get a hold.

Smash_kirby

Kaze_Memaryu

@CaviarMeths Mass-produced isn't the right word for most of these examples. Of course they're still plastic figures (well, some are PVC), but most of the ones you showed were limited, and also hand-painted. I won't say that justifies most of the pricings, though.
However, I'm gonna get me that Tharja figurine! That looks really awesome!

<insert title of hyped game here>

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rallydefault

I'm pretty sure OP is a younger poster, and I don't mean that disrespectfully, but I think it does give me a clue as to why he says the things he says. And if he is younger, I COMPLETELY understand what he posted. I mean, come on - we've all been there. When you're young, you are easily offended and attach yourself to certain things as part of your identity, and he (rightfully so, in most cases) is seeing his favorite video game company doing things they said they would never do: paid DLC and cell phone games as the two biggest.

And hey, there are great minds in history who say we are wisest when we are young, so perhaps all of this is indicative of Nintendo "selling out." He had a good point with the Amiibo, though, and one that most of you glossed over with a simple "you're not forced to buy them." No, you're not, but take Splatoon as an example. Those Amiibo add A LOT of single-player content. A LOT. And I haven't been able to get a hold of those Amiibo and, personally, I feel like I am missing a bit of the single-player game until I manage to track them down. So, yea...some of the Amiibo functionality is not purely cosmetic or optional like Hyrul Warriors or even Smash - some of them actually gate content.

rallydefault

gcunit

I'm yet to see any quotes from Nintendo where it said it wouldn't ever sell DLC or produce mobile content. Please enlighten me with some links.

On the topic of MK8 DLC, would you rather pay £50 upfront for the basic game and all the DLC thrown in, or pay £35 and have the option to buy the DLC? Cos one way or another a company needs compensating for the costs of production. I've got no complaints.

Edited on by gcunit

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skywake

rallydefault wrote:

He had a good point with the Amiibo, though, and one that most of you glossed over with a simple "you're not forced to buy them." No, you're not, but take Splatoon as an example. Those Amiibo add A LOT of single-player content. A LOT. And I haven't been able to get a hold of those Amiibo and, personally, I feel like I am missing a bit of the single-player game until I manage to track them down.

The funny thing is as someone who has got one of those Splatoon Amiibos and LOVES Splatoon.... I haven't even played through the single player campaign yet. I played a few of the extra missions the Amiibo unlocked but only one or two. And keep in mind that they're the same levels as the standard mode just with a different weapons. I played through one world of the standard single player mode. Pretty much all of my time in that game has been in the online mode.

So I think when you say the Amiibo locks out "a lot" of content? It's a bit of a stretch.

Some playlists: Top All Time Songs, Top Last Year
"Don't stir the pot" is a nice way of saying "they're too dumb to reason with"

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