Topic: Nintendo Movement by Shokio, what do you think?

@skywake you also have to remember that they are developing in HD now, its a lot more expensive then during the Wii/GCN era. If they released Metroid Prime 4 and 5 and combined they only sold 3 million I imagine they would lose a lot of money on those investments. There are also a lot less Nintendo fans, judging by Wii U sales compared to the GCN, so its debatable if a new metroid game would even manage to sell as much as the previous Prime games.

Plus the fact that that article was about the strong backlash to Microsoft's heavy push for stronger DRM. Something that backfired spectacularly and gave Sony a massive amount of support. It was all about damage control.

In a way it's no different to when Iwata apologises for delays and asks for patience in Nintendo Directs or the 3DS Ambassador program... or the 30c Wii U VC thing because of the VC delays. Nintendo does this all the time, they put a lot of effort into fan service. It's just that someone always wants more.

Not the same as them not looking at DKCR's 6mill and Metroid Prime 3's 2mill and saying "Hey Retro, do more DK" and instead going "wow, this forum says they want Starfox Metroid Icarus with Lazers, let's do that!"

I am baffled by the notion that the appearance of a new Metroid or F-Zero game would move consoles. Would I like to see them? Sure if they were decent games, but I'd really rather see new stuff from Nintendo (and yes I did buy Wonderful 101 and I didn't like it) alongside VC stuff that should satisfy the retro fans (F-Zero - which I'd never played before - is on my desktop).

I don't think there's a magic bullet here and I don't think the fans have the solution to Nintendo's sales issues because the fans don't have inside knowledge on decision-making at the company or what they're currently working on. You just have to have faith they'll deliver a fun experience; if you don't, then move on!

I remember reading a Ninty interview at E3 and one of the problems they have is that their studios want to work on Mario, Zelda etc so no one is going out of their way to work on the lesser franchises. If their people wanted to make one them it would happen like it did with Kid Icarus, of course if Star Fox, Earthbound etc had huge numbers then they would go out of their way to make sure these games happen.

I don't disagree with what Shoke is trying to do, but I think the hopes of this project are far off their mark. People have said multiple times in this thread that "Nintendo isn't listening." That's where you're wrong. Nintendo DOES listen, but they listen to far more than a whiny "fanbase" that represents a minority of the expected install base and much more to ALL of the people buying and playing Nintendo games. What's that? You wanted Sci-Fi? Why didn't you buy Wonderful 101, then? Where were you, when it was time to support Mass Effect? And Splinter Cell? I don't see you making Sci-Fi games sell on the Wii U. Tell me, if these games bombed, what makes Nintendo think that Metroid will do any better? Why would Nintendo even consider that F-Zero would even make back the money spent to develop it, given the measly install base? On the other hand, Mario, Mario Kart, Zelda, Smash, these will all sell just fine on the console, regardless of the install base. Don't act like they won't.

We also keep saying "Nintendo" when the truth is, DKCTF was NOT Nintendo's decision. It was Retro's. Retro devs said that they, themselves, had ideas left over from DKCR that they wanted to use in another DKC. That's why the made Tropical Freeze. None of this silly "BAWWWWW, NINTENDO DON'T LISTEN TO THEY FAAAAANS! AAAAWWWWWWW"

There's a difference between listening to fans and avoiding brand suicide. I would take a gander and say that the Xbox One DRM reversal was the later.

A Bit More OT: On one hand, I'm fine with this as long as it doesn't turn into a hate campaign. Ultimately the best way to make someone aware of a concern is to contact them on their terms, so I definitely see the logic in this. However, if this gets too big then I may fear that Miiverse will divulge into tons of comments begging for stuff. I mean, sure, Miiverse ain't exactly a place for vibrant and in-depth discussion, but when a forum/network is covered with people begging for stuff it makes the whole thing look bland and boring.

At first, I thought he was just doing this to get attention/vews, but realized he's doing this out of passion. It's actually a pretty good idea and could really wake up nintendo.

I'll be curious to see how much impact this has. I use Miiverse to comment on games I'm playing. I have no intention of using it to petition Nintendo for a specific game title.

This.

The OP video seemed to think that Earthbound was released on VC outside of Japan because a heap of people posted about wanting it. The Nintendo Direct clip did not confirm this as a fact, they didn't say "we only decided to release it because you all said you wanted it so much." What it was was them saying "Hey we are releasing this, spend your money on it." It was marketing, the Miiverse posts just helped them target interested people. It is likely they were already planning to release it to other regions when they released it in Japan.

If Nintendo has the resources to make a fanbased game or another Mario, which one you'll think thay will pick? Obviously Mario because it's been appealing to both its core fanbase and casuals. The same for DK, Zelda and quite a few of there other games, that makes a lot of money appealing to both. Nintendo has two sons and the golden child is little Jr casual.

@MAN1AC People tend to be comparing DKC:TF sales results to the DKCR which isn't even fair. There were 11.5 million Wii's sold in Japan by 2010 when DKCR was released and it sold like 150k opening week.. there were 2.7 Wii U's in Japan release of DKC:TF and it sold 35k. It under performed, but not that much in comparison.

As far as the topic goes.. I subscribed to Shokio last October and I'm already starting to find him a bit , especially in his last few videos. He was extremely upset with the last ND calling it trash, which I think is just plain wrong. Nintendo is holding back for E3 at this point and the gaming show in April that Miyamoto is sponsoring with Nintendo. I would be surprised if we don't get some sort of announcement there. We can't constantly expect Nintendo to give us what we want especially when they've been dealing with all the criticism and troubles that they have in the past year. All Shokio talks about is F-Zero and Star Fox. You really think Nintendo doesn't KNOW that it's fans want these games? Of course it does..

As much I as I appreciate his enthusiasm and dedication, I can't help but feel that it's pointless. Go ahead and go to Miiverse and do what you're going to do, if Nintendo does take notice, it'll probably be just like the comment Reggie gave concerning petitions.. "Petitions don't affect Nintendo's decision.." although Shokio did make a point using the Earthbound miiverse example, so I'll give him that. All I'm saying is that it might not work for F-Zero or Star Fox because they already know we want those. The other stuff he mentioned, pop up alerts on the Wii U/3DS, easy friend request, a slew of other things.. it seems like Nintendo is purposefully ignoring that stuff. Who knows why. -_-

I should clarify that I do want all the things that he's mentioned himself, but I just feel it will fall on deaf ears.

Yeah, because Earthbound was worth the risk.

A new StarFox and FZero? Only if Shokio manages to pull an amount of people that goes on the low 7-digits, which I see very unlikely to happen.

Not to mention you could barely even call it a risk. It was a simple VC release. The game was already done and made, lol. It's practically free money.

Nintendo, specially Miyamoto, have been mentioning sequels to Star Fox and F-Zero for the Wii U for quite sometime already, so i dont know why you people sometimesvtalk about those games as if they arent being made or planned.

And about sales numbers...500 k or 1 million sales are usually considered very sucsessful numbers...Call of Duty numbers like 10 million units per console is not the norm of the industry. The Metroid Prime games did well enough.

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/46736/bioshock-infinite/
http://www.vgchartz.com/game/6969/metroid-prime-3-corruption/
For comparisons

Some other interesting numbers...(vgchartz)

xbox 360: 80 million unitis sold
ps3: 80 million units sold
Wii U: 5 million units sold

Mass effect3 copies sold per console

Xbox 360: 3 million or 3,8% of install base
ps3: 1,2 million or 1,5% of install base
Wii U: 0,1 million or 2% of install base

So, in a certain sense, Mass Effect 3 sold "better" on Wii U then on ps3...

Makes you think, i guess...

Nothing is going to sell a ton until there is a larger user base and in order to get a larger userbase they need more games that appeal to people. Kind of a catch 22. As they allow franchises to die, more and more kids grow up never knowing them. Making them even less viable in the future. The fact is if they make a great game it will eventually turn a profit. It might even persuade major fans to buy a Wii U if they haven't already. Which is more important. They should simply budget accordingly. Or follow much of the rest of the industry and move towards releasing games in chapters or segments to measure sales and desire before spending a ton.

They don't want to simply satisfy fans and turn a decent profit they want to make a killing by making casual games that sell a ton to that segment of the population that usually doesn't buy games. IMO the success of the wii to get those sales had more to do with lots of public presence. Both in large scale advertisement campaigns and the million of news stories about the wii and its, at the time, unique controls. I know a bunch of people who never gamed before who bought a wii and maybe one or 2 titles and now their system collects dust. Because they aren't gamers.

However they should never discount their hardcore fans who are more likely to pickup every franchise title they make and spend a lot of money on games. That has to amount to something. Personally if all Nintendo does is make casual games like wii sports etc and make childrens games they will end up perceived even more so as that. You lose your hardcore gamers who are usually early adopters and buy every nintendo system and it is going to hurt them even more in the long run.

Shigeru Miyamoto expressed his disappointment the Star Fox brand seemed to be losing its appeal in recent years. Saying the peak of sales was StarFox 64. Which IMO is the best one by far. The last two didn't sell well IMO because they diverged so much from what worked. On foot missions and linear progression in Assault and Starfox adventures wasn't even a starfox game. To me this would be like if after Zelda 2 on the NES sold horribly they had just scrapped making Zelda games all together. I'm of the opinion if the game is good enough it will sell. As we get further and further away from Starfox 64 the potential for a Starfox game to sell or for it to even remain relevant as a franchise diminishes. Miyamoto claimed they would use the 3DS remake sales as the indicator of whether they would make a new Starfox game. The problem with that I think is for a game loved by many in 1997 many of its fans are older and less likely to own the handheld.

Development costs are going up, but at the same time the amount of gamers and potential consumers keeps rising. With Nintendo making in roads into China and other places the potential for more profit will continue to grow. Also this makes it hard to judge sales figures in the past. A game that sold 4 million in 1997 like StarFox64 may sell triple that today if the userbase was there.

As for me I don't have as much time as I did when I was younger to play games and I'm not really interested in the 3DS, but I may have to get one because that is the system they are releasing all the best games on IMO. Why not upgrade some of those titles to Wii U and even give us some more upgrades of older titles to get a bigger library on the wii U. The costs for doing these two things are much smaller then a full develoment cycle and also less risk. You upgrade a persons favorite game they may buy a Wii U just to play it. So even if that title only break even if it increases your install base it is worth it.

So I finally got around to watching the video in the first post... so the idea is have a bunch of people spamming Miiverse in order to demand stuff from Nintendo? He says they need to keep it reasonable and I would like to know what is considered "reasonable." Are we going to demand Nintendo to re-work Nintendo Network features right before Mario Kart and Smash Bros come out? That seems unreasonable. Are we going to demand Nintendo to dump their money into reviving dead franchises while Nintendo is struggling to reach a sustainable install base? That seems unreasonable. Are we going to ask Nintendo to give Virtual Console more priority? That actually seems reasonable, but it would be unreasonable to demand a certain number of releases a week as no one truly knows what their process for VC is. (People think they know but they don't know for sure) So what exactly is this Miiverse thing going to do to help the Wii U and/or Nintendo?

Personally, I don't think this "movement" is some sort of act to demand things from Nintendo but rather to "Remind" Nintendo on what the fans really want and the improvements they want to see for the Wii U. Hey they are a bunch of busy people, a reminder or two couldn't hurt