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Topic: Nintendo could be forced to discontinue Wii U next year (They can't be serious)

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shingi_70

61. Posted:

kkslider5552000 wrote:

Sony_70 wrote:

@skywake

Nintendo is really conservative company, They just prioritize things different than Microsoft and Sony and all three have have good things and bad things about them. I'd say Nintendo imo is probably in the worst position of the three in terms of what I wanted them to focus on. Xbox Live is still probably the biggest change to the gaming Industry in the past 10 years or so.

Also your point about off screen/second screen gaming was wrong. Microsoft and Sony among others in the etch communities showed off both before the Wii U was announced

Xbox Live was extremely important in the last generation as it set the foundation for the rise of a variety of downloadable gaming content (well that and Steam), but I don't think it can quite compare to how much Nintendo opened the door for casual/non-gamers (for better or worse).

Hmm. I'd say while the Wii is the most imporant piece of gaming hardware of the last 10 years while Xbox Live was the biggest software based thing to happen to gaming. The Market would be honestly poorer without both to be honest.

WAT!

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skywake

62. Posted:

@Sony_70
They could have just as easily killed those projects and not bothered releasing them on the platform. That would be abandoning. Remember Twilight Princess? It was a Gamecube title in development and they held out for the Wii because the Gamecube. If they had no hope for the Wii in 2010 then they could have easily kept Skyward Sword in development for another year or so. That was certainly the speculation at the time.

Also yes, third party games on a system with a large marketshare. That's the very definition of a platform that hasn't been completely abandoned yet. It's a good three years after the alleged death of the platform and it's still getting a light trickle of software. Same thing happened with the PS2, Gamecube, SNES, NES. The same didn't happen with the Gamecube and N64. Case and point.

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SKTTR

63. Posted:

Sony_70 wrote:

You mean they abandoned the Wii around 2010.

If the PS3 had titles such as Xenoblade Chronicles, The Last Story, Pandora's Tower, Project Zero 2: Wii Edition, Kirby's Dream Collection, Boom/Fortune Street (Straßen des Glücks), Inazuma Eleven Strikers, BIT.TRIP COMPLETE, Mario Party 9, La-Mulana and Retro City Rampage appearing in 2012 like the Wii had you would hardly call it dead, would you?

And let's see what Wii got in 2011: The Legend of Zelda - Skyward Sword, Kirby's Adventure Wii, Kirby's Epic Yarn, Beat the Beat: Rhythm Paradise, Mario & Sonic Olympic Games 2012, PokéPark 2: Wonders Beyond, Wii Play Motion, MotoHeroz, FAST: Racing League, RUSH RUSH RALLY RACING, escapeVektor, Airport Mania.

And now, I'm handing you over a pack of trollfood.

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skywake

64. Posted:

Sony_70 wrote:

Hmm. I'd say while the Wii is the most imporant piece of gaming hardware of the last 10 years while Xbox Live was the biggest software based thing to happen to gaming. The Market would be honestly poorer without both to be honest.

but it wasn't really a huge risk. Worse case scenario with XBox Live people boycott because of the pricing model and they change it, pretend it never happened. Worse case with something integrated into the system experience the platform fails to sell and you can't remedy it. The Wii U was a risk, the Wii was a risk, the DS was a risk and the 3DS was equally a risk. Nintendo's least risky consoles in the last ten years were the GBA and Gamecube.

The biggest risk Microsoft has taken would be the Kinect and TV integration on the XBOne. The 360 by comparison was a very, very safe bet as is the PS4 in this new generation.

Edited on by skywake

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MAB

65. Posted:

Yeah, I reckon Ninty should have held back Skyward Sword for the WiiU launch but they had to release it on the Wii because of the crying fanboys... It didn't sell that good on Wii but it would have given the WiiU a extra boost straight up ;)

MAB

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shingi_70

66. Posted:

skywake wrote:

Sony_70 wrote:

Hmm. I'd say while the Wii is the most imporant piece of gaming hardware of the last 10 years while Xbox Live was the biggest software based thing to happen to gaming. The Market would be honestly poorer without both to be honest.

but it wasn't really a huge risk. Worse case scenario with XBox Live people boycott because of the pricing model and they change it, pretend it never happened. Worse case with something integrated into the system experience the platform fails to sell and you can't remedy it. The Wii U was a risk, the Wii was a risk, the DS was a risk and the 3DS was equally a risk. Nintendo's least risky consoles in the last ten years were the GBA and Gamecube.

The biggest risk Microsoft has taken would be the Kinect and TV integration on the XBOne. The 360 by comparison was a very, very safe bet as is the PS4 in this new generation.

I should have been more clear, I was talking about Xbox Live for the original Xbox. Also risk doesn't exactly mean a product isn't innovative. The iphone was probably the least risky thing apple could do, but its still widely considered the most innovative piece of technology in the past few years or so.

When I call nintendo conservative I mostly mean in the way they spend money on development. I feel there was big lull between 2009-2012 that Nintendo could have used to greatly expand their operations. I feel all of their internal teams should have been doubled around that time to be able to make Handheld and Console games without one of the two branches suffering in software. Nintendo also seems a bit afraid to branch out studios into other regions (retro is an expection) and often uses the fact that communication problems exist which is BS in 2013. Its's a bit odd that just last year we heard about Nintendo expanding their workforce when it should have happened years prior.

WAT!

Hey check out my awesome new youtube channel shingi70 where I update weekly on the latest gaming and comic news form a level headed perspective.

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Xiao_Pai

67. Posted:

...Yeah I stopped reading after seeing "total failure" lol.
Lost count at how many times I've said this, Nintendo is just having issues getting their games out in time right now. In other words, Wii U having a 3DS moment. Though its not as bad for me thanks to Monster Hunter back in March, kinda sucks that series isn't as popular over here, oh well.

I love Erica (Strike Witches), Eureka (Eureka Seven), and Tenma (School Rumble), stay away from them. xD
Update: Also love Yukari and Mizore from Rosario + Vampire.
Another Update: Also Yuuki...from School Rumble...
Yet Another Update: Also Amber and Xiao Pai from Rune Factory 4.

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skywake

68. Posted:

Sony_70 wrote:

I should have been more clear, I was talking about Xbox Live for the original Xbox. Also risk doesn't exactly mean a product isn't innovative. The iphone was probably the least risky thing apple could do, but its still widely considered the most innovative piece of technology in the past few years or so.

I think you're missing my original point. A conservative company doesn't take risks, that was the point I was making. A risk doesn't have to be well received and it doesn't have to be the first. A risk is simply something you bet heavily on the success of but which could possibly go either way.

XBox Live wasn't a huge risk. I never said it wasn't a big deal or that it wasn't as big an influence on the industry as other Nintendo things. I just said it wasn't a huge risk. If it had failed as an idea Microsoft wouldn't have immediately abandoned the idea of the XBox. Also when it came out, not that I remember what the press was saying, I don't think anyone was making the sort of articles people did about the Wii, Wii U, DS or 3DS.

In comparison when Nintendo have launched their ideas people think they've lost the plot. It was less of a thing with the Wii, which was probably their biggest gamble of all, but it was definitely a thing with the DS, 3DS and Wii U. When the 3DS launched every other day there was an article about how it was their next virtual boy. When the DS launched people were writing long articles about how the PSP was going to destroy it and Nintendo's portable console domination had come to an end.

You make a point about the iPhone and Apple but if you take your mind back to the iPad, for example, you'll remember a lot of criticism about how ridiculous an idea it was. Because before the iPad there were already tablets, all of them had failed. To quote myself on the iPad launch:

I don't get these half-way devices but at least the iPhone I could say "ok, this is my phone now" which I couldn't say for the iPad. I have a feeling that I am not as alone in this line of thought. Where in this world where everyone has a phone and almost everyone has a laptop do we have room for a 10" device that isn't really a laptop? I don't see it. I don't get it.

So my question is, how can Nintendo be the conservative ones? They clearly do this more frequently than their competition. The only other major players even remotely close to them in terms of risk taking is the Apple of 2002-2009.

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SCAR392

69. Posted:

I remember getting the original DS a month after it came out. Once I saw Super Mario 64 DS, I thought it was so awesome that one of my favorite N64 games was now on a portable. I feel like the DS did so well, because they made he jump to portable 3D graphics with a touch screen.

The touch screen wouldn't have mattered it the DS couldn't have done graphics that were above the N64. Just want to throw out there that the touch screen wasn't the only improvement to the Nintendo DS. I wasn't even that impressed with PSP TBH. My cousin got one when they were brand new, and he had Liberty City Stories and an RPG game. I wasn't too impressed with Liberty City Stories. The graphics were ok, but the town was basically dead besides a few cars that would drive by.

The same thing goes for 3DS and Wii U. 3DS is basically late GCN/early Xbox 360 graphics, then there's the wireless and 3D, obviously. I'm pretty sure Wii U is alot more capable than people give it credit for. I honestly think it's twice as capable as Xbox 360.

My point is that Nintendo systems still improve generation to generation. They just focus on different stuff anyway, so there's really no way to compare. If PSP would have had a touch screen, or PS Vita had 3D, we'd be having a different discussion right now. Same thing goes for if DS would have had better graphics/capabilities and 3DS had OLED and 3G or something. That's just not the way things are.

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skywake

70. Posted:

@SCAR392
The thing is they thought the DS was enough of a risk that they did their best to make sure it could fail without ruining them. They made it fully backwards compatible, they kept pushing GBA. They even assured people when it launched that it was their "third pillar". All of that went out the window when it turned out to be a massive hit.

Go back to the articles and content written when the DS was announced even on Nintendo fan sites. There's a lot of confusion and panic about what they were doing. Lots of people who got it instantly but still buckets of scepticism. Particularly of touch screen gaming and the design of the original system.

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DualWielding

71. Posted:

What I meant by conservative is that Nintendo follows a traditional business model where they expect profits soon, they're not into the practice of putting out a product and lose money on it for years in the hope it will someday become profitable, that's what Sony and Microsoft do, not Nintendo. Nintendo is already out of their confort zone by selling the Wii U at a loss. That's why I can't see them supporting the Wii U for 5, 6 years if its losing them money even if they can afford it.

DualWielding

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skywake

72. Posted:

ferthepoet wrote:

What I meant by conservative is that Nintendo follows a traditional business model where they expect profits soon, they're not into the practice of putting out a product and lose money on it for years in the hope it will someday become profitable, that's what Sony and Microsoft do, not Nintendo. Nintendo is already out of their confort zone by selling the Wii U at a loss. That's why I can't see them supporting the Wii U for 5, 6 years if its losing them money even if they can afford it.

Well that's precisely why they won't abandon it early on. You're forgetting the money equation for video game hardware. The whole point of a console is to allow you to make money from producing content. There are much larger margins to be had in the software then there is in the hardware so the whole aim is to get units out there so you can sell more software. You're right that Nintendo has more reason to try and make a profit on the hardware and they do but you're forgetting the second fact about consoles.

Hardware gets cheaper as time goes on. If they're losing money on the Wii U right now then they certainly won't be losing money on units sold by the end of next year. If they abandon a console early then they gain nothing. Imagine if you could sell the same laptop for three years at $800, think about how much you'd be making on year 3 when you're selling three year old tech. That's why they don't abandon consoles early.

Edited on by skywake

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UTXGamer

73. Posted:

banacheck wrote:

@UTXGamer:

Will be interesting to see how the PS4/XB1 sell post-launch. The initial surge will obviously be big, but will there be enough quality software in the following months to continue to push sales,

“This is a marathon, not a sprint, but getting out to a nice start is a good thing to do,” the SCEA president told Business Week, responding to estimates suggesting that it will sell three million PS4s by the end of the year. “That hurdle has been cleared. We’re very, very confident that we’re in great shape.”

Sony's got the software to keep the momentum going, the public will start seeing PlayStation4 game announcements from the 14th November and onwards. Going into December developers like Naughty Dog with be showing there PS4 games, there are a lot of games in development both exclusive & 3rd party games for the PlayStation4 so software is not a problem. The PS3 has a massive install base some people are ready for the PS4, others are waiting until after xmas for some games thay want. Late adopters will move on after a price drop or once the PS3 is no longer supported. Just like the price debate of the PS4 which lots where worng about i don't see the PS4 selling poorly after launch, obviously the systems are not going to just keep flying off the shelf. I think the PS4 will do will this gen, i don't think the Wii U is a flop i think it'll do well overtime i think some people are waiting for the games thay want but saying that i don't see it selling like the Wii did. Anyway these are two different systems that appeal to different types of gamers, some people will own two systems anyway or even all three as long as your happy with your console/consoles who gives a **** because i know i don't.

Sony has the software but delays happen. Infamous was already delayed until Q1/2 2014, and just a few weeks ago Driveclub was also delayed. Maybe that was indeed to improve them but it could just as easily be to make sure they have some solid 1st party support in the post-holiday, post-launch months. We've already had 1 big 3rd party title delayed(Watch Dogs) it wouldn't be crazy if some that were looking to release in Q1/Q2 2014 were delayed as well.

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UTXGamer

74. Posted:

tebunker wrote:

UTXGamer wrote:

I think its interesting that the same reasons the Wii U is doomed for failure aren't applied to PS4/XB1:

-price too high for consumers
-bad economy
-rise of smart phone/tablet gaming
-PS3/260 competition
-delayed games
-launch issues

Will be interesting to see how the PS4/XB1 sell post-launch. The initial surge will obviously be big, but will there be enough quality software in the following months to continue to push sales, a lot of the games are already available on PS3/360 and I'd be surprised if more powerful hardware is enough to convince people to pay 400-500 to play the same game.

I'd also be interested in seeing how many of these PS3/360 purchases have been in the past 2 years. Hard to see late adopters upgrading so quickly especially when the libraries for the PS3/360 are so huge and both will likely continue to see support for at least another 1-2 years. I'm sure a good chunk of the purchases were replacement systems but given the ridiculous price tag of the PS3 there are likely a lot of late adopters.

Of the 3 new consoles, the Wii U would seem to be the best value, thanks to the price cut and bundles released.

299.99 for 32 GB Wii U, NSMBU, NSLU. Add 3DW and a Wiimote and you are still under the cost of a PS4, and not even close to the cost of a XB1. Plus, for those that have their Wiis, all their games and peripherals are compatible with the system. Hard to beat that type of value.

One thing Nintendo could do is release bundles that include 3rd party games like Batman, AC4 and CoD. That may help increase sales for those games.

A Mario bundle also makes too much sense: 32 GB Wii U, NSMBU, 3D World and Red Mario Wiimote

The difference is that Sony and to a degree MS have more money and marketing savy to keep thing moving. On top of that they have better relationships with developers to get the games and hype to convice people to commit.

So the main reason it is a neg for Nintendo and not the others is that they have shown a no prisoners, win at almost all costs type of approach to succeed, where as Nintendo does not show that mentality. So effectively Nintendo is being out huistled and they have gone as far as to say they don't care. That doesn't instill confidence.

Sony is obviously very good at marketing their console. Microsoft has a good handle on it as well but they also do stupid things as has been pointed out. This is a company that told consumers to "deal with it," when the reaction to always online and DRM was negative....as if they didn't know the reaction would be negative. Its not like there was severe backlash to just the rumors of those things.....oh wait there totally was.

I'm not sure either has the money to necessarily deal with a flop or initial backlash as they did last time. Most of Sony's other divisions aren't profitable and the Xbox brand has never been very profitable for MS. They've also sunk a lot of money into developing Windows 8, the Surface line, and Bing....none of which have been wildly successful so far.

Their marketing savvy doesn't make them immune to the problems of an incredibly high price, tablet/smart phone gaming and competing with their old consoles, in addition to Nintendo. Right now the value just isn't there, at least from my perspective, to throw 400 or 500 down for a new console that plays most of the games currently out. The systems will move at launch but again will they match the hype and how much will they move after the post-launch hype dies down. Most of the big titles available are already out on PS3/360, and most, if not all, of the future 3rd party games are coming to all 4 consoles as well. Are the first party offerings from these companies enough to make people say "that is worth 400-500"?

And for the holiday season we are really talking about parents as the main consumers so value(specifically the "most bang for your buck" mentality) matters more than at any other time of the year. Its hard to argue against the Wii U being better value than PS4/XBO(when comparing the companies' new systems of course), and for people looking for their first console it'd be hard to argue against PS3/360 being the best overall value.

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rallydefault

75. Posted:

Wait ... the source article is some sort of blog? And we're even giving this thing the satisfaction of debating its "merits"?

rallydefault

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Solado

76. Posted:

I have just started exploring the world of Nintendo. The wii u isn't going anywhere for the next 3-4 years in my opinion, as mentioned previously profit on hardware is a difficult task. Selling hardware at a loss isn't an old practice. With the rise of digital software and virtual market places money can easily be made back over time.

When I got my Wii U I paid cut price for it. Obviously Nintendo made a loss on the hardware sale to me but I instantly paid £10 on the e shop. That's £10 they have made on top of the hardware sale.

In terms of games theird party support could be better, I don't think anyone would disagree with that. But with Nintendo's IP and games they are producing some excellent content.

The wii u is a very capable machine and just needs to shift more units to get we third party backing. Its capability in terms of power could easily support games for the next 4+ years.

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Blast

77. Posted:

Not every PS4/Xbox One game will be amazing and a must buy. PS4's Knack is facing alotta criticism. GameInformer is literally the only review I've seen give the game a average score (8.00 to a 8.25). Killzone Shadowfall is being called a generic shooter that just looks pretty with very few interesting elements (look at IGN and Rev3Games review). Thats another reason why the Wii U can fight on. Not every "next gen" game will make tons of cash and be a success.

I own a Wii U and 3DS. I do plan on getting a PS4 someday :D

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shingi_70

78. Posted:

Blastoise-san wrote:

Not every PS4/Xbox One game will be amazing and a must buy. PS4's Knack is facing alotta criticism. GameInformer is literally the only review I've seen give the game a average score (8.00 to a 8.25). Killzone Shadowfall is being called a generic shooter that just looks pretty with very few interesting elements (look at IGN and Rev3Games review). Thats another reason why the Wii U can fight on. Not every "next gen" game will make tons of cash and be a success.

That seems pretty bad logic of why the WIi U would be able to fight on. Plus the audience who's buying these things at launch (The Gaf audience if you will) usually doesn't look to reveiews and only trust a few outlets. I did say woof at the Knack reveiws but watching the Gamespot Polygon livestreams as well the twitch streams of a few early playstation users the game looks fun. It seems a bit like the old school PS1 games like crash and most of the reviews complain its too hard.

Killzone is reviewing really well and the meat of the game was always going to be its multi-player. Launch games typically don't have to be good to sell well. Kameo and Perfect Dark sold pretty well and one is straight hot garbage while the other is a 6 game.

But at the end of the day the software support is the most on PS4. Analyst could be wrong but the PS4 is projected to hit 5 million in four months and Gamestop is saying that both the PS4/Xbone will be sold out or hard to get until march.
Untitled

Its the biggest hurdle Wii U has to face and will be the hardest once Sony and Microsoft face start their software machines. Nintendo's biggest problem was their year head start was horrible and din;t have the software support from first or third party studios to push more units. That's a problem the other two guys won't have. Even now i'm a bit worried about the Wii U's Q1/Q2 2014.

But at the end of the day it doesn't matter since all three should be good systems in their own right.

WAT!

Hey check out my awesome new youtube channel shingi70 where I update weekly on the latest gaming and comic news form a level headed perspective.

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Blast

79. Posted:

@Sony_70 Ehhhh... I still think the the majority of the people who buy the PS4/Xbox One during this launch hype season will be gamers who can afford it. The massive install base from PS3/360 is obviously affecting PS4/Xbox One because tons of cross gen games are being made and will still be made. THAT WILL AFFECT SALES.

Also... That banner of games you keep posting over and over is CUTE. How do you do that:? I wanna make a 3DS/Wii U version of the same thing.

I own a Wii U and 3DS. I do plan on getting a PS4 someday :D

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Unca_Lz

80. Posted:

@Sony_70: Ironic how you include indie games for your PS4 argument and conveniently overlook/ignore all the indie games coming to Wii U :O

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