Topic: Nintendo balancing the gender bias

No, I'm taking offense to it because it completely disregards how important this would be to many people. Just displaying a complete lack of empathy for people who'd really like this.

Incidentally, if you're saying this because you're jealous: I assure you, I was just as sad when I saw you and what you posted in this thread.

Don't get me wrong - I think having the option of playing as whatever sex you wish is great,

Hah--wait, what? Seriously?

especially with faceless characters anyway,

... Like, are you being serious right now? That's great! I guess I just jumped to concl--

but that doesn't make other people's concerns any less valid. If we're talking about making Link female only (as in people cant play Link as a male anymore) then it'd be just as exclusive as before,

... Oh, okay. By the way, I think the 20+ years of exclusively-male Link will make up for one game with an exclusively female Link...

just with a strange change in the main characters sex which could alienate current fans.

First off: I really don't think it would be strange.

Second: Each new Link is different. We've established this multiple times in this thread. For me, at least, this isn't really about having the option to play as either gender (though I certainly wouldn't mind that at all, and I don't mind anyone who does just want the option). It's that we've had this character (who could totally pull off being a woman due to their lack of defining characteristics) who is different in several games, but in each one of them he reincarnates as a man. I mean, couldn't Link have been a girl in at least one life? I mean, what would be wrong with that? Nothing.

So what if all the guys who've been enjoying their exclusively-male Link get disappointed. They still have the other games and Link could still be a guy in later incarnations of the character. Either way, I say it wouldn't hurt (heck, as I've said before, it'd help) if Link was female.

When I say strange all I mean is that, like any change, fans of the series would probably ask why it changed without the option to play as a man, like in the rest of the series. I don't think any long running series should alienate its current fanbase in order to get a new one when simply providing another option is an alternative. I personally wouldn't have a problem with the next Zelda game having link exclusively playable as a woman, but I can understand why other people would.

Taking away options doesn't make much sense to me in this case. After many years of an established character being male, changing him to a female and saying "Deal with it, you've had your chance to play as a man" is just such an unnecessarily aggressive approach when the alternative of adding the option to play as a man or a woman keeps everyone happy and includes more people while providing more options. Inclusivity should be about including people, not about spiting those who have had their chance to be included.

Its a bit funny people saying it would change link's character when its already been established that every link is a different person. Also regardless of that the fact that you can't change Link's gender or customize him sort of goes against the whole idea goes against the whole idea that Link is a link between the player and the game right.

Also what about Skyward Sword says that Link must be male. The two main characters are childhood friends with feeling for each other, Zela gets kidnapped and Link goes to save, there's nothing gender specific to that.

It does bring a pretty interesting point and to go back to what the @theblackdragon said about the two Halo side games Reach and ODST. In both games you play unnamed solider only called by their Call signs or rank (Noble Six in Reach and Rookie in ODST). In both instances you can choose your gender, but due to this you aren't the focal part of the story in any way shape or form but mostly a POV or link to world for the player. In reach your just a nameless soldier for the most part and while you do factor into the story its mostly about the rest of Noble six. Likewise ODST switches between the rookie is a sandbox enviorment and switches to the other members of his team to push the actual plot forward between converging things at the end.

Halo 4's second campgin mode also allowed you to choose your genders but the main cinematic story doesn't involve your sparten at all so i'm not sure that counts.

Beyond that It wouldn't be that hard for Nintendo to develop the game for two genders. I mean other WRPG's does and the first Dragon Age has like 8 or so openings.

@Shingi: actually, I'm pretty sure the Rookie is male in all cutscenes and during campaign play, though i think you can customize your character in Firefight (idk, i prefer Reach's version of Firefight to ODST's so i've been playing a lot of that, lol). Reach, though, all cutscenes definitely reflect the gender chosen by the player (and if you're playing split-screen with another person of opposite gender, the cutscenes reflect whoever's on the top screen). I really loved Reach, i wanted to cry at the end , just like for Crisis Core.

@Geonjaha Link has been changed several times over the several incarnations of the character. He's changed from brunette, to pink-haired, to blonde, to cartoon character. At this point, most Zelda fans are used to change.

Like I said in your quote, I wouldn't have a problem with there being an option. That'd be great! But, if it comes down to male or female, I say go with a female Link. I wouldn't mind options, I really wouldn't, but if we can't have them, I say go with female Link.

And if several female fans of the franchise can put up with playing as a male for all these years, male fans can put up with playing as a female at least once.

Again, I wouldn't mind options.

Seriously. I wouldn't.

They say they don't take suggestions but current behaviour seems to me like they are at the moment.

(Current behaviour seems to be agreeing to do almost anything as long as it is 2015 or later.)

@theblackdragon

Ah just assumed since the rookie is sort of faceless main character. In reach I'd say Jorge and Kat's kat hit me the most.

I think they may not want to program every game with a story to have a girl. The story could be flipped, like Prince Link and Zelda as the sword wielder, but it really depends on what their aim is. I know tons of girls play Zelda, but a relationship between Zelda and Link hasn't really been much of an aspect of the series. Or say if Link was a girl, but you were still saving a Princess. There are alot of options they could do, but it would surely take alot of work.

I'm not against it at all, but if The Legend of Zelda had a girl option, they'd have to give you a choice about which gender you are saving, as well, IMO.

I guess this is where I get off the train. Ive never in all my days of gaming "enjoyed" a character soley because of its gender. Ive never even considered that people think males are getting to "enjoy male exclusivity " I never wished that I could be a male Samus or Lara. Heck, i didnt care that i couldnt be black in Pokemon.

@SCAR392 I don't see anything wrong with keeping Zelda as a girl (at least, for iconography), but I actually love the idea! I could be a male Link and save a Prince who I'll have vaguely-romantic relations with! ^.^

@Suicune Then I don't see any reason why you should be against it, outside of arbitrarily deciding Link can only be one gender.

I mean for game plot ideas. Listening to fans who want a new Star Fox game or who really, really like the GameCube controller is one thing, but taking suggestions regarding specific plot ideas would open them up to litigation. It's why a lot of authors or musicians may claim to not read or listen to their contemporaries' works abd will refuse fan-mail containing ideas for future stories or songs, they don't want to come under fire for having taken ideas from others without permission and/or compensation.

So, women up to now have had NO options in any Zelda title to play soley as a female. They have had to be a male for every single title since the first one hit the NES. Now there is chatter about the slightest possibility that Link might be female and you start whining about OPTIONS. So it's fine for women to have had no options for all these years, but it's not ok, or you are not willing, to even fathom the idea of having to play as a female Link? Think for a moment how strongly you feel about Link being a male protagonist in The Legend of Zelda, and then consider how strongly female players would feel to finally have their opportunity to fully relate to the protagonist in one of Nintendo's biggest franchises.

The difference between simply having gender options in Zelda and actually making Link soley a female carry very different amounts of weight and opportunites. Including a gender options means the storyline would have to either change accordingly to your choice or be watered down to accompany gender neutral possibilities. Where as making Link a female would allow for a well written, deliberate storyline, and (GASP) force male players to consider things from a female perspective, while still getting to be a badass hero. Plus, it would send a huge message to the gaming community. Everyone knows Nintendo is the trend setter — they tread new waters, and the other companies follow. How awesome would it be for Nintendo to do the same with gender roles in video games?

I guess Samus was really not the way to go. But what if Link would have always been female and now people would want her to be a boy? I could imagine that many of those, who are rooting for female Link would say that there are enough male protagonists and that they should leave her as a heroine.

The thing is this doesn't seem to be about progressing the franchise or anything like that, but about having a female Link, because it would be "huge", "trendsetting" and things like these.
Should from now on everything have a gender option, just because?

This isn't a guessing game. Stop looking for the perfect way to say "I don't want change."

Great job ignoring the majority of what he said and calling him out as some anti-changer?

How would it not progress the franchise? How would it not breath fresh air into a series that has started to settle into predictability? It would most likely progress the franchise while also being "huge" and "trendsetting" and culturally important. What's wrong with that? The idea of gender equality isn't "just because." It may seem that way because well you're a male and you've never had to consider the opposite side of things because pretty much ALL games cater to you. And no not all games should toss in gender options to be politically correct, The Legend of Zelda series just happens to be a great fit due to Link's adaptable role and origin (i.e. he is a new hero with a new story) every single game. How would it hurt the series is a better question.

I believe that a character's gender, as an individual aspect, has little to do with the character's quality. The quality mainly comes from other forms of characterization like personality, actions, and relationships. Yes, some of those things may change when creating a character with a specific gender in mind. When I say this though, I mean the relationships change. I can't imagine tinkering with those other attributes "because this character is this gender" without it coming off as stereotyping.
With that said, Link has mainly been mainly characterized via his actions. Saving the world, making a big deal about treasure chests, reacting with a funny face; all of these are classic bits of character given to Link throughout the series, and could easily transfer to a female version of the hero. I honestly don't see how changing Link's sex would make these features any less enjoyable for men, especially if women have been enjoying the male character for years. Again, the only parts of Zelda that require Link to be male are his relationships with the cast. Well, I guess I should correct that and say Skyward Sword is the only time Link has been required male, since every other relationship in the series is some combination of being shallow, one-sided, or played up for comedic effect. The thing I don't get is when it's said that because Skyward Sword's story was designed around male Link that somehow invalidates the possibility of the EAD team deciding to try something new, have a female Link and design her relationships accordingly. Why can't Link just save Zelda because it's her destiny or because they're friends and not because of any romantic reasons? Why can't different princes and men have relationships with a woman the same way different princesses and girls were all over a nine-year-old boy in Ocarina of Time? There are plenty of odd characters in the series already (Tingle, Great Fairy, Groose), and I bet seeing Link's reactions to these types of would be just as if not more entertaining in the augmented context that this is how they are even around girls.
In the end, Link's gender won't make or break my decision to buy the game, but I would definitely be interested if they tried something different, a particular course of action that the Zelda team is no stranger of.

I actually said that I'd be fine play as a female link, but I'm guessing you didn't read that bit - only the part where I said I didn't totally agree with your opinion.

Think for a moment how strongly you feel about Link being a male protagonist in The Legend of Zelda, and then consider how strongly female players would feel to finally have their opportunity to fully relate to the protagonist in one of Nintendo's biggest franchises.

I don't feel strongly at all about Link being male, and I don't believe you need to be the same gender as a playable character to relate to them, especially when they're as faceless as Link is.

The difference between simply having gender options in Zelda and actually making Link soley a female carry very different amounts of weight and opportunites. Including a gender options means the storyline would have to either change accordingly to your choice or be watered down to accompany gender neutral possibilities.

No Zelda game thus far wouldn't work if Link was female instead, thus we can have the option for players to have either sex.

Where as making Link a female would allow for a well written, deliberate storyline, and (GASP) force male players to consider things from a female perspective, while still getting to be a badass hero.

Now, this is why, although I agree having the option to play Link as a female would be a good thing, I'll never agree with your stance on the matter. "Force male players to consider things from a female perspective, while still getting to be a badass hero."; What? As if gamers haven't already played plenty of games with female hero's?

Furthermore why do we need to 'force male players' to do anything? When the ideals of equality get warped into weapons for spite and petty revenge against 'those who've had it good up until now' then I don't understand how you expect support. In all of the games in the Zelda franchise so far, the sex of Link has not been important. Thus giving players the option to play Link as a male or a female could easily work. Yet you want Nintendo to only allow players to play as a female Link instead? Why? You aim to balance out inequality with more of it, and the only reasons I can see for it are petty at best.

so I just had an amazing idea, why not let the pros mind their own business and do their games how they see fit?
if it's bad everyone can complain and stop buying until it's good again. you know, like in simpler times when gaming was all about killing time and having fun without giving much thought to smalll details