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Topic: Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge

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Taffy

Was thinking should I get this or wait for Bayonetta 2. I've only ever played Ninja Gaiden on the DS and really enjoyed that version but can't really say that I have a loyalty to the franchise. Anyone here own NG3 have an opinion?

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Warruz

If your looking for a game like Bayonetta 2 try Wonderful 101 if you havnt.. It's not exactly the same as it has difference mechanics but the type of game is the same.

As for Ninja Gaiden Im curious too as the only one i have played is the Xbox original one and I have heard mixed things of this third one.

Edited on by Warruz

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maximo_jd

I got Ninja Gaiden 3 Razor's Edge. I'm really enjoying it. I never played the original Bayonetta ,but from i've seen the combat is kind of similar. Ninja Gaiden is crazy brutal where as Bayonetta is just crazy to be crazy. I've played the whole NG series including the DS game. I hope they eventually port the Sigma versions of the first 2 over as the first one was the best storywise i feel the 3rd one tells a better tale than the 2nd although still bizarre.

The game sort of references the other 2 ,but it also kind of feels like its own kind of reboot as well. Its great straight forward action game that will tide you over till Bayonetta 2 just be prepared for some difficulty.

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faint

taffy wrote:

Was thinking should I get this or wait for Bayonetta 2. I've only ever played Ninja Gaiden on the DS and really enjoyed that version but can't really say that I have a loyalty to the franchise. Anyone here own NG3 have an opinion?

i really dig it and it's very cheap. you can pick it up for 25 bucks new on amazon. bayonetta is a ways away still. i say pick it up.

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SkywardCrowbar

Bayonetta 1 is a vastly superior title to Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge... I wish that Platinum & Nintendo could get like an Ultimate Edition or something of Bayonetta 1 released.

I bought Ninja Gaiden 3: Razor's Edge at launch and I enjoyed it fine. It's pretty, the action is intense and visceral. Some of the kills are amazing. Even on lower difficulty it's pretty challenging, so if you're looking for kind of an old school super difficult hack and slash vibe, this should do the trick. There's some really good fan service if that's your cup of tea. I greatly enjoyed how some of the female characters were rendered.

The game is pretty monotonous though. It's just a very straight forward hack and slash. Solid fun, and it should be cheap now. I recommend it, Bayonetta 1, and Bayonetta 2.

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Einherjar

Never EVER try to play a 3D Ninja Gaiden game expecting "just an average hack and slash" This series will rip you to shreds and leave a bad aftertaste, even for the whole genre if your not really into it in the first place.
NG can be really really frustrating and unfair if you dont know what youre doing. It gave each enemy basicly the same kind of power you as a player have, In most games, the player character is always on top of everything. In NG, basicly everything can kill you in seconds, from simple brute force to swarming attacks up to ad beyond instant kill moves with little to no tellings / startup time that can also guard break. On higher difficultys, they can even punish you for using your own special moves. The most common one used, the izuna drop, is a throw type attack that instantly kills most minor enemys. In higher difficultys, some enemys can kill YOU if you try and use that attack, something so essential, that it almost gets programmed into muscle memory the first few times through the game Its brutal, its hard and it tends to be highly unfair at times. But as soon as you master it, it is one heck of a satisfying experience.

Bayonetta on the other hand only really kicked off with its difficulty in the appropriate difficulty modes. On normal, it was still challenging, but through and through fair. Its a much more enjoyable experience, since it isnt that demanding in regards of its learning curve. Bayonetta also had a much more forgiving combat (rating) system. WIthout much hassle, almost any player hat the chance to get higher ranks in a fight, even with a bit of button mashing. NG on the other hand is MUCH faster and way more hectic, but asks for the player to be as calm as possible, since button mashing gets you in trouble pretty fast. One attack to much, one second without your guard up and you could be caught in a combo that you wont survive.

Both games might be part f the same overarching genre, but offer vastly different experiences. If youre a hack and slash veteran and ar elooking for a tough as nails challenge, try the Ninja Gaiden series. If you want a hack and slay game that is more enjoyable overall and much more user friendly, then wait for Bayonetta 2, as NG3s asking price on the eShop is way to high for a blind buy and physical copys tend to be extremely rare, at least around here.

Also, you cant really compare it to its DS incarnation. While Dragon Sword was an excellent game, it wasnt nearly as challenging as its bigger bretheren
If you have access to a PS3, you can find copys of Ninja Gaiden SIgma 2 and Bayonetta 1 pretty cheap (mostly around 20€ here).
NG2 is a bit different than NG3 in terms of mechanics, but gives a good impression of what awaits you, and Bayonetta 1 is a general recommendation as it is a fantastic game through and through and in my opinion, the REAL Devil May Cry 5

Einherjar

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Sean_Aaron

It is amazingly difficult and I ended up having to turn down the difficulty for the final boss battle to get through it. The story is ridiculous and the tone is all over the map - and not in a good way, so best to turn your brain off before play.

What sold me is the visceral action (as SkywardCrowbar said) and controls that give you a fighting chance. Per Einherjar, don't expect to have your hand held: normal enemies will kick your donkey sideways right off the bat at the default difficulty level. There's not too much nuance though: despite having a dozen attack moves you really only need to go back-and-forth between a couple of buttons to take down pretty much everything you encounter, but then that's true of most games of this type (see also Darksiders II).

Edited on by LzWinky

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Einherjar

@Sean_Aaron "despite having a dozen attack moves you really only need to go back-and-forth between a couple of buttons to take down pretty much everything you encounter" Thats not really true. Like i said, your essential moves in one difficulty mode could kill you on another.
To survive higher difficultys, you must have a decend understanding of "time frames", much like in a Street Fighter style game. How long are you invincible, how long is the recovery of each move etc. SOme of the game mechanics are incredibly deep. What would be considered a mere "charge attack" in other games has mechanics so deep, that it has its own FAQs (the so called "Ultimate Technique")

But i have to agree about the story. NG3 tried a much more "cinematic" approach, and for everyone who played otherM, you already know how good Team Ninja is when it comes to story telling But thankfully, its nowhere near as stupid as in otherM.

Like i said before, the 3D Ninja Gaiden series is catered towards the more hardcore fans of the genre. Its the same story as with fighting games:
Wanna enjoy a fighting game without the need to learn frame times, combo frames etc ? Try Tekken / Soul Calibur , dont go with Street Fighter / King of Fighters.

Einherjar

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Sean_Aaron

I can only go off my experience of playing the game. I did %99 on the default difficulty and mainly used combos that were available at the start of the game. The bonus moves I bought during play were often too difficult to pull off to be much use and I just couldn't remember what button combos did what beyond four button presses. It does really come down to observing the (often incredibly varied) enemy attack patterns and timing your strikes, remembering to leverage special attacks.

I won't argue the point about higher difficulty levels because I didn't try them and frankly the game is challenging enough for me at default that I don't feel the need to try!

Story-wise I could have lived with the goofiness if it was consistently goofy, but having our hero suddenly realise he kills people for a living and experience a crisis of conscience was totally out of place and unreal - especially considering he graphically tears people limb from limb numerous times and is dripping blood off his blade and clothes most of the game. This also extends to the bizarre treatment of the little girl who looks to him with some fondness - the guy is an inhuman monster, are you kidding me?

I use it to get out some frustrations - tearing people up with a sword in this game with the zooms and OTT sound effects and visuals is far more satisfying than any number of firefights. I will be curious to see what Bayonetta 2 is like, but honestly this isn't the kind of game I really feel to the need to have multiple versions of so it had better offer me more than "sexy girl that shoots things."

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Einherjar

@Sean_Aaron Like i said, the story has the same issues otherM had. You have a protagonist who has done these things for years and just NOW they are realising WHAT they are doing ?
NG3s story also has major consistancy errors. It was stated before, that Ryu lives by the ninja code. That means that he has accepted death, his own AND the death of his enemys and treats it with honor and pride. For him, it was clear that he had to kill to survive, it was kill or be killed. And he and his enemys lived by that code, thats why he never showed any signs of regret. It simply was their "job" so to speak.
For him to fall into such a tantrum was more than out of character and was done mearly for the sake of being more dramatic and cinematic. And like otherM, it failed hard

Einherjar

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SkywardCrowbar

I almost never did any combos that I didn't have at the start of the game. I just button mashed, even on higher difficulties. It's all about timing and spacing yourself within the combat area.

@ Einherjar I never thought about the plot being similar to Other M... I see it now. Good observation.

Also, I forgot to mention that I loved playing with Ayane. I thought it mixed up the gameplay just enough to keep it interesting. I felt like I was actually doing something a little different when I was playing with her, instead of essentially playing the completely same game with a different skin.

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Einherjar

@SkywardCrowbar thats what i loved about the "Sigma" remakes of NG1 and 2. Theyve added a bunch of other characters that are quite different to handle.

Einherjar

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Taffy

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Story is important to me in an action/adventure game so from what I've seen on Bayonetta is that it's silly and the game knows it so I can go along with that but Ninja Gaiden 3 is trying too hard to be serious and falls flat on it's face. That said I did enjoy Other M as a game and didn't really care too much about the story.

Also heard the Bayo 2 is going to have Multiplayer, what's the multiplayer like on NG3?

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Einherjar

@taffy The story in NG3 can mostly be ignored, even better than it could be in otherM, since it doesnt affect the gameplay that much (in otherM, teh story dictated your suit upgrades and such). But youre right in that it definitly tries to hard to be a cinematic experience it never was supposed to be, but its core gameplay is where its at definitly

Bayonetta never had a 4th wall to begin with. It constantly played with its audience, with its countless cameos and eastereggs and with its own canon. The story itself is your typical japanese action stuff. Every minute, the badguys are getting bigger and bigger, youre arsenal gets bigger and more wackier, oneliners are droped all over the place and your bonus reward is a pole dance from bayonetta to a dance version of fly me to the moon
To be honest, it may not be oscar worthy, but its extremely entertaining. And if you can see past its japanesyness, the core story is quite competent, even serious at times. In contrast, NG tries to fit in ancient Ninja Lore in a setting of "what would happen, if they actually existed today" with a bunch of demons from several sources running loose. Bayonetta on the other hand, is a fantasy plot from the beginning. You have witches who seek vengence against angels, a funeral broker who organizes fake funerals to draw in said angels etc. It never goes the "this is all the real world" road NG3 did.
But like i said, both storys are wacky and over the top crazy. Bayonetta plays with it and NG3 tries to be a serious action flick. It works for what it is, but isnt all that fantastic in a broader view.

Again, comparing these two games in gameplay is like making a direct comparison between Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario Galaxy. Yes, both are platformers and share basic concepts, but ultimatly, both are two differend kinds of experiences.
I never delved too deep into NG3s multiplayer, since its somewhat of an "elite only" club, wightfully so, but here is what i gathered from it:
It is entirely seperated from the normal game. You play as a nameless (your nickname) character, that you can customize and level up.
The multiplayer consists entirely of challenge maps, boiling down the gameplay to combat challenges. It can either be played offline solo or with a partner by your side. That said, nothing really changes from here on out. All players are thrown into this challenge map with increasingly difficult foes, that spawn in in waves. Beat everyone and the challenge is won, awarding you with Karma points (NGs answer to XP, with which you can buy new skills, weapons, clothes etc).
Sadly, i cannot say anything about Bayonetta 2s multiplayer, but i guess it will be implemented in a similar way. Devil May Cry and also Bayonetta 1 already featured such challenge maps and it would be perfectly suited for multiplayer.
I dont think that the multiplayer option will be implemented into the campagne though, since its simply not suited for more than one player and that goes for both games. But the core gameplay of both games, and the genre in general lies in its combat, so boiling the game down to simply that isnt a bad thing at all.

Einherjar

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Blast

@maximo_id To those who have Ninja Gaiden 3... is Ayane really 14 years old????

Edited on by Blast

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Einherjar

@Blast apparently , she is supposed to be 17. But look at other protagonists: Squall Leonhart from FF VIII is supposed to be 17, but looks like hes finishing his twentys The age given to japanese fictional characters is mostly total bullsh*t to be honest. Their apperance and age NEVER match up at all.
Just look at Ryu, also from NG: He is a master of multiple weapons, close and long range,multiple fighting styles, multiple Ninpos and a supreme master of an ancient Ninja Art that rarely sees heirs...and hes supposed to be just 22 3 years younger than myself

With japanese characters, you can go with this age grouping:
Childs will always be under 10
Teens will always be 10 to 15 max
Adults will always be in their pre 20s
Elderly people will either be around 40 (even though they might look like their around 80) or their a couple of hundret years old

The age their given doesnt reflect anything, really, its just a thing like the blood type. Nothing more.

Einherjar

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Blast

@Einherjar She's 17? Wow... I'm 19. I REALLY hate how some Japanese artists draw fully bodied women then give them this crazy young age. I hate that so much.

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Einherjar

@Blast Dont hate on it Its a cultural thing really. The same goes for western developers / artists almost always depicting "tough guys" as muscle packed testosterone tanks. Just look at how batmans depicted in the Arkham games, he lookes like he could lift a tank with one hand And still, he acts as a sleek ninja.
For the west, its a muscled up super hero, for the east, its a person of young age thats idealised to be a true hero. Look at most japanese male protagonists, almost none of them shows any signs of muscles. Most of them have a more feminin figure. But thats just how it is, every culture has its own ideal figure when it comes to heroic characters or role models.
The problem is, that most western cultures arent taking underaged people very seriously (i dont mean that offensive in any shape or form). So we find it odd when we see characters having such a young age. But i bet that japanese people find it odd that most of our protagonists and heros are in their 30s
Like i said, its nothing you should think or care about too much. Its a cultural thing. We find theirs weird, odd and funny and likewise, they do that with yours and mine

Edited on by Einherjar

Einherjar

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Blast

@Einherjar Wow... That was awesome. Thanks for explaining it!

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maximo_jd

I agree with everyone i got an "Other M" feeling from the way the story was done ,but i think that feeling is also encouraged by the fact that i swear the voice actor who did Samus in Other M does that McCloud whatever her name is that's always talking to you.

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