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Topic: Miyamoto: Nintendo catering more to "Core" than "Casual" now

Posts 61 to 73 of 73

SCRAPPER392

@gage_wolf
Why? I still think alot of the same. My point was that I was and am always fine with how Wii U did at launch, despite others' criticism, because it was the only 8th gen console to start supporting in the first place. All my points are positive for Wii U, like Xbox One and PS not having as much games as people want, either. Wii U didn't have as many games as people wanted, and now Xbox and PS don't have as many games as Wii U. Se how the Wii U is past tense in that case, which is actually a good thing?

All those PS and Xbox fans would have bought Black Ops II on Wii U if said Wii U had the Xbox or PS branding on it, instead. That's how this is going right now.

Wii U does and will have "core" games. Happy? We got Smash Bros, which I honestly don't see how any gamer can stay away from, Xenoblade will be the biggest RPG as far as we know, Hyrule Warriors is the newest Warriors game, Bayonetta 2 is only on Wii U, etc. There are "core" games there.

Qwest

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arnoldlayne83

The comparison of the adverts was amazing and interesting, thanks...
No wonder that wiiU is considered the console for kids if Nintendo was the first one pushing that idea.... and it is controversial, thinking aboit what Reggie stated about attracting third parties (which are mainly targetting hardcoregamers and adult audience)...
I was surprised also to not seeing any reference at zombieU or any launch third party games on the trailer....

I guess Nintendo should give up a little with its policy of being child friendly, and put more attention on mature contents, cos it seems there lies the real gaming market nowadays... tablets and smartphones (and eventually handhelds) are the platforms where kids play the most

psn: markthesovver83 ; Nnid: arnoldlayne83

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arnoldlayne83

SCAR392 wrote:

@gage_wolf
Why? I still think alot of the same. My point was that I was and am always fine with how Wii U did at launch, despite others' criticism, because it was the only 8th gen console to start supporting in the first place. All my points are positive for Wii U, like Xbox One and PS not having as much games as people want, either. Wii U didn't have as many games as people wanted, and now Xbox and PS don't have as many games as Wii U. Se how the Wii U is past tense in that case, which is actually a good thing?

All those PS and Xbox fans would have bought Black Ops II on Wii U if said Wii U had the Xbox or PS branding on it, instead. That's how this is going right now.

Wii U does and will have "core" games. Happy? We got Smash Bros, which I honestly don't see how any gamer can stay away from, Xenoblade will be the biggest RPG as far as we know, Hyrule Warriors is the newest Warriors game, Bayonetta 2 is only on Wii U, etc. There are "core" games there.

Agree with u, but only comparing the amount of releases for September for wiiu and ps4, you will realise that it won t be too long that the games libraries of the two console will sooner or later become unbalanced towards psone... the biggest problem for me on wiiu is the lack of variety, or the total lack of some type of games (let s say sports games for example?)...

Another problem is that i believe the wiiu was released too soon, some of the games u mentioned (ssb, bayo, pikmin or mario 3d) should have been present on the platform at launch.... while we just got another super mario 2d, too close to the wii one in term of graphic to really show buyers the generational gap...

psn: markthesovver83 ; Nnid: arnoldlayne83

Nintendo Network ID: arnoldlayne83

Dreamsleep

OptometristLime wrote:

Discostew wrote:

kkslider5552000 wrote:

sub12 wrote:

What's wrong with Nintendo aiming at the core gaming audience?

Literally nothing, other than they won't hit Wii-level mainstream success.

That level of success is never coming back, so they really have no choice.

Agree

Why do people say something will never happen? They said that Sony would never have another successful console again, like the PS2, and here we see the PS4 taking off. People said, after the Gamecube, that Nintendo would never have another successful console again. Wii happened.

I see you are saying that level, but no one knows the future. Any company can have that success again, and more, if they create a product people want. It was a perfect storm of casual and traditional gamers with the Wii, and DS as well, but...who is to say that Nintendo couldn't do it again?

It could happen. There is a possibility of it happening...even with the third party situation being like it is, it doesn't matter anymore with the addition of indie developers. That offsets the big guys a lot. Just look at something like Shovel Knight, or Minecraft. Small games, big sales. Nintendo realizes, much more than most people, that they can truly not care about third party developers anymore, if they don't want to show up on their console. They can just cater to indies, and put out their first party software.

Atari 2600, Commodore 64/128, Sega Genesis, 32X, Sega CD, PC, Dreamcast, PS1, PS2, Wii, PSP, DSi, PS3, 3DSXL, WiiU

shingi_70

Dreamsleep wrote:

OptometristLime wrote:

Discostew wrote:

kkslider5552000 wrote:

sub12 wrote:

What's wrong with Nintendo aiming at the core gaming audience?

Literally nothing, other than they won't hit Wii-level mainstream success.

That level of success is never coming back, so they really have no choice.

Agree

Why do people say something will never happen? They said that Sony would never have another successful console again, like the PS2, and here we see the PS4 taking off. People said, after the Gamecube, that Nintendo would never have another successful console again. Wii happened.

I see you are saying that level, but no one knows the future. Any company can have that success again, and more, if they create a product people want. It was a perfect storm of casual and traditional gamers with the Wii, and DS as well, but...who is to say that Nintendo couldn't do it again?

It could happen. There is a possibility of it happening...even with the third party situation being like it is, it doesn't matter anymore with the addition of indie developers. That offsets the big guys a lot. Just look at something like Shovel Knight, or Minecraft. Small games, big sales. Nintendo realizes, much more than most people, that they can truly not care about third party developers anymore, if they don't want to show up on their console. They can just cater to indies, and put out their first party software.

But that doesnt bring big sales. Shovel Knight is a outlier that it was a kickstarter game so it had a successful base form the beginning and the results would have been the same regardless.

Minecraft became a huge hit on consoles because the Xbox 360 had a huge install base and if you look up player dynamics you have a lot of users who tend to switch between COD, Minecraft, Madden, and Fifa.

The perfect storm were taking ideas that weren't common place partnered with superb marketing. The only thing that would come close these days would maybe be VR. Even the PS4 taking off was on the back of the core gamer and not the casual audience.

WAT!

Hey check out my awesome new youtube channel shingi70 where I update weekly on the latest gaming and comic news form a level headed perspective.

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Dreamsleep

The two games were examples of small games that buck the trend of needing big third party developers. It was merely an example, showing how Nintendo, in losing those big third party devs, really doesn't need to care about them anymore. The real point is that they need to pick up those indie games that are blockbusters, much faster than they have in the past.

They seem to be doing that now, but whatever is going on with not having Minecraft on their consoles is more Notch than Nintendo, I believe.

Atari 2600, Commodore 64/128, Sega Genesis, 32X, Sega CD, PC, Dreamcast, PS1, PS2, Wii, PSP, DSi, PS3, 3DSXL, WiiU

rockodoodle

That might be part of it- I was easily impressed. But still, I think a lot of people would buy a Wii U if they knew how much fun it is and how cool the gamepad is even for surfing an netflix while somebody else is watching TV. I was posting a lot of my MK8 pics on FB and one of my friends picked up a Wii U a few weeks ago.

So, I pretty much had fun with the Wii U from day one- which was in April of '13. Things slowed down a bit, so I got a 3ds, but picked up by Christmas with Mario 3d land, then DKTF, slowed down a little till MK8, but that has been a great buy. I just got an XBone, and I think the Wii U was comparatively further along than it is now at this time last year.

gage_wolf wrote:

rockodoodle wrote:

shingi_70 wrote:

Man it shouldn't have taken them as long as it did to realize that the audenice that made the Wii big was not coming back, and now they're stuck with a console not that apeealing to the core or mainstream gamer.

I think the market for that audience is there still....but they didn't explain their value very well. I never even got into the Wii, pretty much left gaming for 20 years, save a GBA and I love the Wii U.

Not trying call you out at all... but part of the reason you love the Wii U might be because you skipped the Wii. I had a Wii since launch and the follow up, Wii U, has been pretty underwhelming. The Wii did a lot! The first party titles were killer (we got maybe the best or two of the best Marios of all time), some awesome third party, and TONS of VC. And yet... that system still managed to scare off a lot of gamers. The marketing around it, the shovel ware... it's gonna be tough to get those people back, especially since the U has been very underwhelming until recently...

rockodoodle

Bolt_Strike

kkslider5552000 wrote:

Bolt_Strike wrote:

Like I said, they're going to have to change their business philosophy in some way, no one wants a gaming centered, underpowered, kid friendly console anymore, one of those things has to change.

I have two separate rebuttals.

1. People have said that no one wanted 2d platformers, horror games, dedicated gaming handheld systems, local multiplayer, single player, adventure games, Japanese games and my personal favorite, video games (lol 1983). And every single time they have been proven wrong. In an era where Xcom the strategy game can vastly outsell a Mass Effect clone game of the same series with half the marketing budget, Persona 4 can be one of the top selling games on a(n admittedly poor selling) Sony platform and both Antichamber and Dark Souls can succeed, I do not care about such irrelevant assumptions.
2. " no one wants a gaming centered, underpowered, kid friendly console anymore unless it is marketed halfway decently and hypes a new game in a popular, not overdone franchise, in which case it can outsell Xbox with one game even after it got a price cut" is what you meant to say

There's a couple of things that make this a different situation though:

1. Nintendo relies on new ideas, typically from hardware, to make their consoles stand out. Well what's next? Motion controls have been exhausted. Microsoft and Sony are already on VR.
2. Rising development costs make it harder to profit, and therefore they need larger audiences than what Nintendo is typically capable of garnering.
3. The larger audiences, the dudebros and casuals, that Nintendo needs to survive are not interested in their general philosophy and Nintendo is not interested in them.

Their only hope at this point is that they pull off another blue ocean strategy, but this time the new market actually stays with Nintendo, but I highly doubt that's going to happen.

Dreamsleep wrote:

The two games were examples of small games that buck the trend of needing big third party developers. It was merely an example, showing how Nintendo, in losing those big third party devs, really doesn't need to care about them anymore. The real point is that they need to pick up those indie games that are blockbusters, much faster than they have in the past.

They seem to be doing that now, but whatever is going on with not having Minecraft on their consoles is more Notch than Nintendo, I believe.

Yeah, this would be a more worthwhile move on Nintendo's part, indies games are becoming more important in an era where AAA developers are having problems releasing games in a decent time frame.

Bolt_Strike

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Rin-go

I don't know if those quotes aren't being taken out of context.
To me it seems more like that there is no need to cater to a specific demographic anymore. The demographic that wants to play games that don't really feel like it, could be the best way to say it. That doesn't mean that there won't be any more casual games, though.

Some people make it seem like there were no "casuals" prior to the Wii and DS. I would argue that the "casuals" are an important factor in order to have huge sales. The PS2 sales also weren't only "hardcores".

I would say the making gamers take a step further approach was actually showing through since launch. NL is often seen as a game that should have brought "casuals" in , just like Wii Sports. But I would argue that it is actually "hardcore". Wii Sports is very pick up and play, but NL takes some effort to master. Having a mini game collection based on their favourite franchises is also more enticing for "hardcores". NSMBU has a challenge mode that also needs effort put into it if you want to have all the gold medals.
You can play them casually, just for fun, but in order to get the most out of it, you have to put some effort into them, go further.

Rin-go

shingi_70

@Bolt_Strike

While I agree that indie games are more important I wouldn't credit that to the detriment of AAA. I mean only a few games were delayed till next year and there's still over 20 AAA games coming out.

WAT!

Hey check out my awesome new youtube channel shingi70 where I update weekly on the latest gaming and comic news form a level headed perspective.

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rockodoodle

I think developers need to make games that don't consume so much time. I've found myself playing games like Wii Sports Club, Zen Pinball, Mario Kart, even NSMBU b/c they don't take so much time and can be played in spurts. Also, I like games that have varying degrees of difficulty.

Rin-go wrote:

I don't know if those quotes aren't being taken out of context.
To me it seems more like that there is no need to cater to a specific demographic anymore. The demographic that wants to play games that don't really feel like it, could be the best way to say it. That doesn't mean that there won't be any more casual games, though.

Some people make it seem like there were no "casuals" prior to the Wii and DS. I would argue that the "casuals" are an important factor in order to have huge sales. The PS2 sales also weren't only "hardcores".

I would say the making gamers take a step further approach was actually showing through since launch. NL is often seen as a game that should have brought "casuals" in , just like Wii Sports. But I would argue that it is actually "hardcore". Wii Sports is very pick up and play, but NL takes some effort to master. Having a mini game collection based on their favourite franchises is also more enticing for "hardcores". NSMBU has a challenge mode that also needs effort put into it if you want to have all the gold medals.
You can play them casually, just for fun, but in order to get the most out of it, you have to put some effort into them, go further.

rockodoodle

SCRAPPER392

arnoldlayne83 wrote:

SCAR392 wrote:

@gage_wolf
Why? I still think alot of the same. My point was that I was and am always fine with how Wii U did at launch, despite others' criticism, because it was the only 8th gen console to start supporting in the first place. All my points are positive for Wii U, like Xbox One and PS not having as much games as people want, either. Wii U didn't have as many games as people wanted, and now Xbox and PS don't have as many games as Wii U. Se how the Wii U is past tense in that case, which is actually a good thing?

All those PS and Xbox fans would have bought Black Ops II on Wii U if said Wii U had the Xbox or PS branding on it, instead. That's how this is going right now.

Wii U does and will have "core" games. Happy? We got Smash Bros, which I honestly don't see how any gamer can stay away from, Xenoblade will be the biggest RPG as far as we know, Hyrule Warriors is the newest Warriors game, Bayonetta 2 is only on Wii U, etc. There are "core" games there.

Agree with u, but only comparing the amount of releases for September for wiiu and ps4, you will realise that it won t be too long that the games libraries of the two console will sooner or later become unbalanced towards psone... the biggest problem for me on wiiu is the lack of variety, or the total lack of some type of games (let s say sports games for example?)...

Another problem is that i believe the wiiu was released too soon, some of the games u mentioned (ssb, bayo, pikmin or mario 3d) should have been present on the platform at launch.... while we just got another super mario 2d, too close to the wii one in term of graphic to really show buyers the generational gap...

I understand alot of the gripes about Wii U, actually. You're saying games like Smash Bros. or Bayonetta 2 should have been there on launch, but that isn't a reasonable expectation at all with what we've seen from Xbox One and PS4. That's the thing, people complain about Nintendo not having a better launch, but then we see games like Drive Club getting delayed, or Halo 5 coming out later. I don't see nearly as many people complaining about those "short comings" as they did for the Wii U.

As for the sports games, the likes of EA didn't even have a complete Madden or FIFA game. The physics weren't there, and some features were missing, IIRC. Then we see people telling us to buy their games, but those same people didn't buy the game either, so the whole situation is ironic/contradictory.

Then we have Black Ops II. My point is that even if Wii U had the games people are saying it needs, it's pretty likely that same group of people would buy those games on Xbox or PS. Even if CoD was exclusive on Wii U, people would still go play their Xbox One or PS4, instead.

Qwest

3DS Friend Code: 4253-3737-8064 | Nintendo Network ID: Children

arnoldlayne83

SCAR392 wrote:

arnoldlayne83 wrote:

SCAR392 wrote:

@gage_wolf
Why? I still think alot of the same. My point was that I was and am always fine with how Wii U did at launch, despite others' criticism, because it was the only 8th gen console to start supporting in the first place. All my points are positive for Wii U, like Xbox One and PS not having as much games as people want, either. Wii U didn't have as many games as people wanted, and now Xbox and PS don't have as many games as Wii U. Se how the Wii U is past tense in that case, which is actually a good thing?

All those PS and Xbox fans would have bought Black Ops II on Wii U if said Wii U had the Xbox or PS branding on it, instead. That's how this is going right now.

Wii U does and will have "core" games. Happy? We got Smash Bros, which I honestly don't see how any gamer can stay away from, Xenoblade will be the biggest RPG as far as we know, Hyrule Warriors is the newest Warriors game, Bayonetta 2 is only on Wii U, etc. There are "core" games there.

Agree with u, but only comparing the amount of releases for September for wiiu and ps4, you will realise that it won t be too long that the games libraries of the two console will sooner or later become unbalanced towards psone... the biggest problem for me on wiiu is the lack of variety, or the total lack of some type of games (let s say sports games for example?)...

Another problem is that i believe the wiiu was released too soon, some of the games u mentioned (ssb, bayo, pikmin or mario 3d) should have been present on the platform at launch.... while we just got another super mario 2d, too close to the wii one in term of graphic to really show buyers the generational gap...

I understand alot of the gripes about Wii U, actually. You're saying games like Smash Bros. or Bayonetta 2 should have been there on launch, but that isn't a reasonable expectation at all with what we've seen from Xbox One and PS4. That's the thing, people complain about Nintendo not having a better launch, but then we see games like Drive Club getting delayed, or Halo 5 coming out later. I don't see nearly as many people complaining about those "short comings" as they did for the Wii U.

As for the sports games, the likes of EA didn't even have a complete Madden or FIFA game. The physics weren't there, and some features were missing, IIRC. Then we see people telling us to buy their games, but those same people didn't buy the game either, so the whole situation is ironic/contradictory.

Then we have Black Ops II. My point is that even if Wii U had the games people are saying it needs, it's pretty likely that same group of people would buy those games on Xbox or PS. Even if CoD was exclusive on Wii U, people would still go play their Xbox One or PS4, instead.

I see your point,... personally i recently surrender and i got recently the ps4... waiting now for fifa, driveclub, destiny, the witcher and all this games i cannot play on wiiu... before i kept buy 3rd patry games on wiiu, like fifa 13 (even if it was cramped), cod and others (of my 25retail games for the console, 19 are 3rd party actually).... from now, cos i am not a charity org for nintendo, i ll evaluate each game release (in case of some new multiplatform) and i ll choose which version will better suite my tastes.... then, i can skip some wiiU title that i would have bought only because there is nothing else (read:hyrule warriors) and concentrate only on the exclusive i m inteested in to... like bayo or ssb. That s sad in a way, i would have really liked to get stick only with wiiu.... but is not possible for me... too many misses in games i like...

Considering the launch period, i see ur point again, but consider that ps4 or xbox1 didn't have to convince anybody about their game target, we all knew that in their lifespan they will be full of socalled hardcore games with realistic graphics and so on.... it was nintendo that wanted to switch from "casual-kiddy" games to something more "hardcore" (as many times declared by the heads of the company).... what we got at launch? An underpowered system (which personally I don't really care so much) and two first party titles...another 2d supermario which looked totally similar to the predecessor on wii (and with a ridicolously poor implementation of gamepad, see rayman legends...) and a collection of mini/party games, Nintendoland.... supppper, Nintendo, mission complete....

Edited on by arnoldlayne83

psn: markthesovver83 ; Nnid: arnoldlayne83

Nintendo Network ID: arnoldlayne83

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