Topic: Mario Overkill

@UGXwolf I see your point and I know people like that I have friends who love Mario Kart but don't care about anything else Mario.... my point is that Nintendo is using Mario and Mario related characters in all these games, clearly in the hopes that for some people the presence of Mario and/or his supporting cast is a draw and not the gameplay itself.... but by releasing so many Mario related games they are exhausting that well, the presence of Mario or friends doesn't become a draw anymore because there are so many Mario games......

It's like my Star Wars analogy, some people buy those games not because of the gameplay but because they like Star Wars... but if they released 5 Star Wars games a year then they'll dillute the effect, being a Star Wars game loses its effect as a selling point

Eh, Star Wars has been milked to death for decades now and it's still going strong. It's the same for Mario really.

When Lego Star Wars came out nobody said "oh cool, another Knights of the Old Republic". A "Mario Game" is it's own well defined thing beyond just being a game with Mario in it. A "Mario Game" is a game where you're running around jumping on turtle heads and throwing shells and innocent bystanders. When Mario Kart comes out nobody says "oh cool, another Mario Game" they say "oh cool, Mario Kart". When Smash Bros comes out everyone knows that it's Smash Bros as its own thing and not "Mario".

Same with these new games. Yoshi is his own thing, Mario Kart is its own thing, Captain Toad is another thing which is close to Mario but not quite "Mario". In the same way that nobody looks at WoW, Warcraft and DotA as all the same game. They're all from the same melting pot but the're entirely their own thing.

@ferthepost I see what you're saying, and yes, it stops being a draw, when it's everywhere, but that's not actually why Nintendo does it. Or at least not the whole reason. Gamers are pretty much universally aware that if Nintendo slapped Mario on it, they probably think it's a good game. He's their Everyman They can put him in most games and it'll work out beautifully. Sure he's a draw, and naturally Nintendo would prefer a known character to a random new one, but his main feature is being the mascot and flexible enough to be in pretty much any kind of game.

I don't see what the "problem" is here. We get games with great gameplay, we get games that build on new gameplay ideas and the fact that Mario is attached to them helps sell the product. The day that Mario is no longer selling games is the day that Nintendo stops putting him on the box and the Splatoon Girl becomes the new go-to character. However, we live in the real world where games like New SMB U can sell while equivalent games like Rayman Legends fail to. So Mario, we're not over the guy. Sorry.

With that said the general whine of this thread is not actually about characters, settings and themes that get old or even IP. What gets old are genres. When you get games from the same genre over and over again without any change in style or any innovation. That's what gets old. When I say I'm kinda over Mario I don't mean that I don't want to see Mario for a while. I instead mean I've had enough jazzy, colourful platformers for a while. Just like how if I said I was kinda bored of GTA I wouldn't be ecstatic that Watch Dogs just came out. If you're over CoD you're not going to line up for Battlefield.

I could honestly say that I didn't want to see "more Mario" after 3D World. I was over Mario. However Mario Kart I'm happy to play because I haven't gotten a new Mario Kart in a while. It's an entirely different game.

I'd disagree that it's simply a matter of genre fatigue, because then you have stuff like Mario Galaxy vs. Mario 64, where they use the same genre, even the same style of gameplay, but then Galaxy layers on a completely new theme, new gameplay mechanics that go along with that theme, as well as new hardware improvements that also add new gameplay mechanics. Stuff like the antigravity level design, using the Wii Remote to collect Star Bits, the various level gimmicks that use the Wii Remote, etc. Yet you don't hear anyone complaining about Galaxy being "another Mario game". So no, I'd say it's the lack of new settings, concepts, and gameplay mechanics that are causing the problem, as with the exception of Galaxy and Galaxy 2, every Mario game in the last 10 years has used the same Mushroom Kingdom setting (or in 3D World's case, a new setting that is virtually a clone of the Mushroom Kingdom) and has the same exact gameplay right down to the same movesets and same powerups give or take one "basic" platforming powerup (and by that I'm referring to the Tanooki Suit, Squirrel Suit, and Cat Suit) which usually add very little to the gameplay anyway. That being said, it does seem like they're running out of ideas for new platforming mechanics, so perhaps giving the platforming genre a rest is the best thing for them to do. There have been far too many Mario platformers this gen.

I think the Zelda series right now is a good idea on how Mario should work. That is only release games frequently when there is an immediately difference between them. I mean even the recent 3D Marios are just New Super Mario Bros (but better?) with a little more room in the 3rd dimension usually. Whereas barring like the DS games, Zelda has remained relatively interesting.

Skyward Sword changed the overworld and parts of the pre-dungeon levels, made movement more challenging and changed combat from the norm despite the Twilight Princess influences. ALBW tried to be more non-linear and made the majority of items based on renting and buying while also being a nostalgia game. Hyrule Warriors is an entirely different game with Zelda characters, based almost entirely on cathartic soldier combos and Zelda U is actively trying to be a Skyrim + ALBW + Zelda 1 + what I think might be Deus-Ex levels of non-linear gaming. Like not only are a ton of small to medium changes happen in these games but each have different core differences and are helped with different art styles. They're not entirely different games but there's still enough to justify them being a big deal instead of just one step above a Street Fighter 4 update and the developers try really hard to keep things interesting. TBH, somewhere between Zelda, Mass Effect 2, Assassin's Creed 2 and Bioshock Infinite is probably my ideal idea for a sequel. Take what people love, remember what the player did, improve everything while creating a new world. In that order.

Same with Metroid. Like I love the linear meets exploration compromise Super and Prime reached but I'm also pretty glad that every Metroid doesn't try the same thing.

Also, it helps that platformers are everywhere (especially nowadays where you can buy a new platformer classic new for 10-15 bucks), whereas I can count the number of Zelda-likes on my hands.

What some of you are failing to realize is that all of those games are indeed counted as Mario games because Nintendo intentionally put the Mario name on the box because sales would benefit from association with the franchise. If Mario is in the name then its a Mario game. That's really not disputable.

Oh hey, Skywake is still hear.

In the most literal sense, yes, but it's a massive disservice to gamers as a whole to just call them all Mario games. It's painfully unspecific and it defeats the purpose of referring to it by the franchise. We can all agree that Super Mario 64 and Mario Party play absolutely nothing alike, so why in the name of greater gaming would anyone refer to them under the same banner?

.......... I don't think we disagree

@Skywake Yeah, I noticed that, too, but I was on my phone at the time and didn't want to bother trying to Swype out a response to that comment to explain the similarities... guess it really wasn't that hard, huh?

True, but arguably it's the job of Mario games to create the install base. The DS didn't have a huge install base in early 2006 when NSMB released. NSMB helped it get a huge install base by being a huge system seller. NSMBWii gave the Wii a huge hardware boost in 2009. NSMB2, U and 3D World haven't had the same impact for their respective consoles, even though they're equally great games, so (to tie it back to the thread) perhaps there could be a bit of Mario fatigue/overkill going on, maybe. After all, NSMB was the first new 2D Super Mario for 15 years. And there had only been two 3D Super Marios in that whole period (64 and Sunshine).

Um, and what was that baby's name?

Along these lines, I'm enjoying Mario Golf on the 3ds tremendously. I could easily see myself playing this more than I play NSMBU and Mario 3d World.... I wouldn't mind a version for the Wii U eventually to be played with Wii Motes like in Wii Club Sport....

To anyone claiming Donkey Kong is a Mario spinoff, it isn't. Mario and DK came from the same game, which was called Donkey Kong, technically making every Mario sub series a Donkey Kong series spinoff.

And again, they're releasing no more Mario games than they were in every other generation. You've just got less third party games to go with them.

I've seen lists and discussions like this a lot, and I always have to same the same thing...

Every list attempts to reach too hard. If you're counting an "appearance" as a Mario game or something that counts towards Nintendo "using" Mario too much, that's absolutely ridiculous. Boil it down to actual games that focus on Mario rather than just use his name or likeness, and the number dwindles dramatically. Hell, even Mario Kart and Mario Party barely count as "Mario" games, because even though he's in them and the title has his name, think about the roster and gameplay styles of the games. Those are not "Mario" games!

Rant over

In two of three cases, Mario. In one case, Mario, Peach, Donkey Kong, and Wario.

Besides that completely evades the point, which you so conveniently excluded from my quote. The point being that they are YOSHI'S adventures and Baby Mario is just along for the ride. You play as Yoshi and use Yoshi's abilities to get from level to level. Not Mario's.

Which then leads me to @ZyroXZ2 's point that an appearance does not justify labeling it in the name of that specific character.

Oh, and if you generally want Mario 'overkill', try Super Sig World. One guy's Mario ROM hacks. He's made more than THIRTY since just 2008.

At least you don't get six New Super Mario Bros games a year. And that they're more different than this guy's works are.

So basically any game with mario in it is now a mario game.....that makes no sense really cause i think mario games are games where mario is the main characters but thats my opinion